2012 charging info

[mathprofcarrie]

Can you point me to the right thread or resource? I am a bit overwhelmed here, and want to get it right. I am taking possession of a 2012 Leaf SV on a 24 mo lease today (They aren't fast sellers here, and it was still on the lot). Now I have to figure out the charging.

1) What do I need to do to trickle charge - do I need to buy anything?
2) What do I need to do to charge it at the 3.3kW rate - what do I need?
- I am thinking the upgrade is the way to go, but what does the house need? Also, can you tell me why I should go through a company instead of letting my husband tinker with it (can you tell this makes me nervous?)

Background. We do not have any outdoor plugs near the driveway. Our box has 2 empty breakers side by side.

Err on the side of a very low-level explanation to me. I don't mind.

 

[cracovian]

Can you point me to the right thread or resource? I am a bit overwhelmed here, and want to get it right. I am taking possession of a 2012 Leaf SV on a 24 mo lease today (They aren't fast sellers here, and it was still on the lot). Now I have to figure out the charging.

1) What do I need to do to trickle charge - do I need to buy anything?
2) What do I need to do to charge it at the 3.3kW rate - what do I need?

Background. We do not have any outdoor plugs near the driveway. Our box has 2 empty breakers side by side.

Err on the side of a very low-level explanation. I don't mind.

1) Plug the included EVSE into any decent 120 V outlet. If too far, a low gauge extension cord will work (I used to use a 50 ft cord easily)
2) Permanent L2 station ($600+ plus installation) or an upgraded EVSE plugged into a variety of 240 Volt outlets (either existing or newly-installed)

 

[EVDRIVER]

Can you point me to the right thread or resource? I am a bit overwhelmed here, and want to get it right. I am taking possession of a 2012 Leaf SV on a 24 mo lease today (They aren't fast sellers here, and it was still on the lot). Now I have to figure out the charging.

1) What do I need to do to trickle charge - do I need to buy anything?
2) What do I need to do to charge it at the 3.3kW rate - what do I need?

Background. We do not have any outdoor plugs near the driveway. Our box has 2 empty breakers side by side.

Err on the side of a very low-level explanation. I don't mind.

1) Use the cord in the car as it is
2) You can upgrade that cord to 240V and charge your LEAF at its max speed and still use it on 120V. (http://www.evseupgrade.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

 

[mathprofcarrie]

Thanks,

I just added a clarification on the #2 above.
What exactly does the upgrade do? My husband for some reason thinks and upgrade is something he can do by himself. This makes me nervous. To be fair, he is an engineer, but that doesn't mean he is an electrician...

 

[davewill]

Thanks,

I just added a clarification on the #2 above.
What exactly does the upgrade do? My husband for some reason thinks and upgrade is something he can do by himself. This makes me nervous. To be fair, he is an engineer, but that doesn't mean he is an electrician...

The guy who is doing the upgrades is an electrical engineer, has years of EV experience, has tested the snot out of his upgrade...and spent months perfecting it. The upgrade is not trivial. It requires replacing several components, hacking the firmware (no source code) all while dealing with an epoxy sealed circuit board. Worse, it's perfectly possible to end up with something that works, but lacks the safety features it's supposed to have. If your husband really wants to tinker, a much more reasonable way would be to build an OpenEVSE. There's tons of help and how-to knowledge for that. Here's the main thread for it: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=144871" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and here's the official web page: http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. You can probably manage with 120v while he builds one of those.

If he tinkers with your 120v EVSE, at best he'll leave you with no way to charge while he's got it apart, and I doubt he can do it quickly (if at all).

P.S. If he can't easily answer all the questions you've put to us here, absolutely don't let him try to upgrade your EVSE.

 

[Nubo]

Can you point me to the right thread or resource? I am a bit overwhelmed here, and want to get it right. I am taking possession of a 2012 Leaf SV on a 24 mo lease today (They aren't fast sellers here, and it was still on the lot). Now I have to figure out the charging.

1) What do I need to do to trickle charge - do I need to buy anything?
2) What do I need to do to charge it at the 3.3kW rate - what do I need?
- I am thinking the upgrade is the way to go, but what does the house need? Also, can you tell me why I should go through a company instead of letting my husband tinker with it (can you tell this makes me nervous?)

Background. We do not have any outdoor plugs near the driveway. Our box has 2 empty breakers side by side.

Err on the side of a very low-level explanation to me. I don't mind.

It's so hard to advise because there's no way for us to evaluate your or your husband's experience level. And there are very real safety and liability questions involved.

Basically, my approach is that if someone is asking these type of questions, they should probably get an electrician involved. Even if that is only to inspect the circuit and outlet being used for trickle charging. Consider this is the equivalent (in terms of load) of running a space heater on high, anywhere up to 20 hours continously, day after day.

Trickle charging needs a circuit that can handle the 12A continuous load. That means a minimum 15A circuit, 20A would be better and ideally the trickle charge will be the only load on the circuit, or at least no other significant loads. The receptacle should be high quality and the wiring should use the screw terminals, not the stab-in connectors that some outlets utilize. IMHO, putting in a new receptacle is a good idea because it gives you the opportunity to validate the wiring connections are clean and tight, and an opportunity to make sure the condition of the wires in the outlet box are good (no charred insulation, etc). Whether or not you or an electrician does this depends on your knowledge and comfort level. Be safe.

For L2 charging you need a dedicated 240V circuit (no sharing) of sufficient amperage to support 16A load. That's a minimum of 20A, but could be more if the EVSE is rated at higher amps, even though the 2012 LEAF will only pull 16.

A lot of folks try to avoid hiring an electrician because of the cost. Imho it's good insurance that everything has been done safely, properly and up to code. There's no economy in saving a few hundred dollars only to have a fire down the road and discover that you are liable because the wiring was done improperly, against code, no permit, etc...

 

[mathprofcarrie]

Thanks,
I really appreciate the response and the good rebuttal arguments to use.

 

[Reddy]

Nubo provided very good info. If you are willing to provide more (location, driving miles, speeds, etc.), we can provide more. All of this has been asked before by multiple people. Spend some time searching and/or browsing through this forum and you will get more info than you will ever need.

Edit: You can start with some of the links related to L1 (120 V) vs L2 (240 V):
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=10776&p=247635#p247635
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11506#p265550
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11591

 

[mathprofcarrie]

Nubo provided very good info. If you are willing to provide more (location, driving miles, speeds, etc.), we can provide more. All of this has been asked before by multiple people. Spend some time searching and/or browsing through this forum and you will get more info than you will ever need.

Too much information! And the 2012 stuff was buried, so thank you for the links. My husband is fine with electrical and sets up things at work all the time, but once I pointed out the upgrade details that you provided, he was happy to have it done well by someone else. He just wouldn't ask himself. Thank you.

I will be a rural road driver in mid-Maine. Most of the drive is 45-55 speed limits, 30 mi ea way. My husband may use it also in the winter when the snow comes so I can have the AWD vehicle. His commute is shorter, 25 mi each way, at either two locations 1) 45-55 mph and 2) mostly 65 mph highway and with some 25 mph areas before and after. He'll be able to trickle charge at #1 of his workplace. My workplace and #2 of his are talking about installing charging stations.

I'll try to change my signature now to match info others have provided.

 

[Reddy]

You can add your approx location to "User Control Panel" Profile. It helps people with region/temp concerns.

In Maine and driving 50-60 mi RT you'll definitely need L2 charging at home. Go with EVSEUpgrade.com ($300 for the upgrade, plus cost to add 20amp/240V L6-20 receptacle in garage) or one of the many commercial stations ($800-$1500 for the station, more for the electrician to install). Lots of choices.

If you've already leased and are driving it without any L2, you will may find the L1 (12amp/120V) trickle charge doesn't provide enough time to recharge. I tell people that 50-60 mi/day is the maximum you can drive when trickle charging. Even so, you'll need to be charging close to 10-16 hrs/day to do this. That's a lot of time on one electrical circuit & receptacle. Make sure it's in good shape, a good tight receptacle and make sure to support the weight of the heavy brick. I mounted my EVSE cord on the wall and don't bother to take it down except for long trips. That's why Nissan doesn't recommend trickle charging and suggests that you have an electrician do an inspection. It's not rocket science, but Nissan doesn't know how good/bad your electrical system is.

In really bad weather you'll probably also want to L1 charge at work. Hey, if you can get L2 at work, even better because you can pre-heat while connected. Sounds like you are well on your way.

Although there are some real experts on this forum, many of us were just regular folks interested in EVs. I've wanted one for more than 30 yrs but couldn't commit (lack of technical expertise, oh and scared of electricity) until they were idiot-proof. The Leaf is a very nice vehicle, a bit technical for a country bumpkin like myself, but not too technical.

 

[RonDawg]

In really bad weather you'll probably also want to L1 charge at work. Hey, if you can get L2 at work, even better because you can pre-heat while connected.

Just to clarify, you CAN preheat/precool using L1. You just can't do this and expect to charge the propulsion batteries at the same time, since the cord set won't provide enough juice for both.

One way around this is to set the charge timer to end, say, about an hour before you expect to leave, then set the climate control timer for your actual expected departure time. The system will then kick in early enough depending on how much it needs to heat or cool the interior.

 

[mathprofcarrie]

Ordered EVSE upgrade yesterday, and 240V outdoor outlet installed today (no garage, but an overhang and a cover protect the outlet), so we are on our way. I am hoping we get a place to plug in at work before winter starts, just for piece of mind.

I'll have to take some time to figure out carwings, Eco drive, other timer settings. Yesterday went I picked the car up, the Nissan leaf app was not working on our droids? so we didn't get the tutorial.

I think this weekend we will drive to town and test our driving range, then plug in the 120 and see how much charge it gets us back over night, just so I know if I need to ever use the 120 adapter.

I think I also should call my utility and check what time off peak starts. I hope I'm not forgetting anything else...?

 

[Reddy]

In really bad weather you'll probably also want to L1 charge at work. Hey, if you can get L2 at work, even better because you can pre-heat while connected.

Just to clarify, you CAN preheat/precool using L1. You just can't do this and expect to charge the propulsion batteries at the same time, since the cord set won't provide enough juice for both.

Yes, sorry that came out wrong. Yes, using L1 will output 1.44 KW, about 1.2 KW useable for either heat or putting into the battery. When preheating in my garage, the entire 1.2 KW goes to heating the car, nothing into the battery when temps are below about 40F. When it gets really cold (I can't say much below about 10-20F), and when using only L1, the car does warm up, but I don't think it really gets above 70 F inside. I notice that once I'm off shore power, the heater immediately consumes 3-4 KW even after pre-warming. It's not a problem for me since I only drive 8 mi RT to work, and we don't normally have more than a handful of days below 10 F.

 

[mathprofcarrie]

I am definitely going to have to figure out how to do the pre-warm timed while plugged into the 120V. You all recommend 1 hr before leaving? At what temp do I need to worry about this?

I did find out today that work will allow me to plug into the 120V plug down in maintenance they have for the diesel engines to warm. So at the very least I have a little extra juice when I need it. And hopefully they will let me use it through the winter if I need to pre-warm, but it sounds like I might be competing for plug space.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Yes, sorry that came out wrong. Yes, using L1 will output 1.44 KW, about 1.2 KW useable for either heat or putting into the battery. When preheating in my garage, the entire 1.2 KW goes to heating the car, nothing into the battery when temps are below about 40F. When it gets really cold (I can't say much below about 10-20F), and when using only L1, the car does warm up, but I don't think it really gets above 70 F inside. I notice that once I'm off shore power, the heater immediately consumes 3-4 KW even after pre-warming. It's not a problem for me since I only drive 8 mi RT to work, and we don't normally have more than a handful of days below 10 F.

This is a good point, Reddy. The OP will be parking and charging outside in Maine! 120 Volt preheating won't work very well in below zero temperatures. She will be fine at home with her 240 Volts plus EVSEupgrade. Getting into a prewarmed car in winter is great!

 

[dgpcolorado]

I am definitely going to have to figure out how to do the pre-warm timed while plugged into the 120V. You all recommend 1 hr before leaving? At what temp do I need to worry about this?

I did find out today that work will allow me to plug into the 120V plug down in maintenance they have for the diesel engines to warm. So at the very least I have a little extra juice when I need it. And hopefully they will let me use it through the winter if I need to pre-warm, but it sounds like I might be competing for plug space.

My concern with Winter charging at work is less with preheating than with range. 60 miles in very cold temperatures without workplace charging would be iffy. And forget about it in snow (but that's when you take the AWD car). The 120 Volt preheating will help somewhat but the car likely won't get really warm in zero degree weather. Yes, I'd probably try for an hour of preheating at 120 Volts in very cold weather.

If you have sufficient charge, you can also preheat while unplugged.

 

[RonDawg]

The OP will be parking and charging outside in Maine! 120 Volt preheating won't work very well in below zero temperatures. She will be fine at home with her 240 Volts plus EVSEupgrade.

It won't be toasty warm but it will be a lot better than nothing at all, as you mentioned in your following post. If she doesn't have access to 240 volt charging at work, she will have little choice anyway.

 

[Reddy]

So in summary, it sounds like we're pretty close to done here. With L2 at home and L1 (or possibly L2) at work, you should be able to do 60 mi (user #1) or alternatively 50 mi (user #2). In addition, you have the option to use another vehicle in the really bad Maine snow (hey, I'd stay home in the really heavy stuff anyway).

I will just add that I would charge on L1 for 8 hrs while at work. Put the energy into the battery as long as you possibly can while at work. Depending upon temps, you will get between 2-4 mi per hour of charge, maybe a total of 15-30 mi distance. Then before you leave, you can turn on the CC (from https://www.nissanusa.com/owners/login or smart phone). I wouldn't bother with more than 45-60 min even if super cold. I think that eventually the car will lose heat as fast as you add it and additional time does nothing but waste heat. Perhaps if the car is covered with snow/ice it will help defrost. The point is that every KW going to heat is a KW that didn't go into the battery for potential use as miles traveled. If anyone has more experience, please chime in. I know there are several members from NY, Canada and one from Norway with much more cold weather experience.

If you pre-heat at work without being connected to shore power, the is some benefit because the car recirculates the air during warming. However, you're wasting battery and reducing range. This may be fine when temps are above 35 F or so, but at lower temps it could be the difference between making it home or not. If L1 fails during the day (who knows why, power outage, tripped breaker, etc), then you'll need an alternative emergency plan when temps are significantly below freezing. Yes, not using heat sounds extreme, but it would be foolish not to have an emergency kit (with food, blanket, gloves, hat, etc.) in the car for your area/commute. After Sandy, everyone should more aware of the need for preparations.

 

[mathprofcarrie]

Hopefully, 120v at work is temporary. They are investigating a charging station full on, but I don't know the timeline. wish me luck!

Just made my first roundtrip to work today after charging on the 120V up to 100% over the weekend. Eco struggled with the rural hills, but I made it back just having barely dipped to red zone, maybe 1 mi in. It does make me a tad nervous, even though I had an estimated 18 mi left. I'll have to keep the battery in good shape.

All your advice is super helpful, thank you.

 

[davewill]

Eco struggled with the rural hills, but I made it back just having barely dipped to red zone, maybe 1 mi in.

You had plenty of range available. The "red" zone is for the capacity bars. There's no reason not to go into them. As far as "Eco" struggling, it has just as much power as "D" mode, you just have to push the accelerator farther to get it. If you need more power, just keep pushing and it will come.