100 Mile Club, 200 km, 300 km, 200 Mile Club (24kWh LEAF)

[Reddy]

Well, with all of these reports, this must have been THE 100 mi weekend! With the nice weather (60s), I decided to make a 98.6 mi RT out in the country (at times miles from the nearest 120 V plug). I did this same trip last Sept but with ~ 6hr L1 during the dinner/event. This time I decided to give it a try, figuring that I could always charge at the Nissan dealership on the return trip. I got LBW at 85.2 mi (right near the dealership), reset the trip meeter per Tony's instructions, then cruised city streets ~13.8 mi to VLBW (I passed my house with 4 mi flashing and kept driving). I turned around at the VLBW and rolled into the driveway at 101.7 mi and 5.8 mi/kwh. I didn't try turtle so there were probably several more miles left. I took pictures, but will need to figure out how to post them. There is so much capacity "hidden/protected" by these warnings that the normal user wouldn't be able to go these distances.

I used 6 bars on the outward trip and "lost" one while the car was off (as others have report). So returning with 5 bars, loaded up with several cases of extra weight, heading into an increasing headwind, and driving on a two lane country highway with 60 mph speed limit, I had pretty much given up the possibility of finishing without some extra charging. However, about 15 miles later the road turned and the wind was reduced (or possible slight tailwind). Approaching Pasco, the highway gains another lane and I could slow down without impacting traffic. At that point, I think I had 1-2 bars and about 20 miles home. Of course, while sweating the details, I forgot that the last bar has more miles. So I literally cruised at 24 mph along the river through Columbia Park right past the hydroplane pits (25 mph speed limit). This gave me more confidence that I would make it.

A big thanks to Tony Williams, his chart (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293#p101293), and everyone else who's posted their results. I would not have tried this without your support!

Reddy

 

[TonyWilliams]

Well, with all of these reports, this must have been THE 100 mi weekend! With the nice weather (60s), I decided to make a 98.6 mi RT out in the country (at times miles from the nearest 120 V plug). I did this same trip last Sept but with ~ 6hr L1 during the dinner/event. This time I decided to give it a try, figuring that I could always charge at the Nissan dealership on the return trip. I got LBW at 85.2 mi (right near the dealership), reset the trip meeter per Tony's instructions, then cruised city streets ~13.8 mi to VLBW (I passed my house with 4 mi flashing and kept driving). I turned around at the VLBW and rolled into the driveway at 101.7 mi and 5.8 mi/kwh....

A big thanks to Tony Williams, his chart (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293#p101293), and everyone else who's posted their results. I would not have tried this without your support!

Thanks for adding the detail that these trips deserve, so that others will gain that confidence that you had. You are hereby inducted to the 100 Mile Club with Distinction.

Would you please confirm that it was 4.8miles/kWh, and not 5.8? Also, confirm you read that from the dash, and not CarWings.

Would you do me a gigantic favor, and drive over to my brother's house on the east side of Kennewick and show him how an electric car works. Be prepared for some "Faux News" rebuttals.

 

[Reddy]

I just logged into Carwings (1st time I've really looked at this) and it says 5.4 mi/kWh, 19.2 kWh consumed by traction motor, 1.4 kWh regen, 0.6 kWh accessories, 3.1 hrs travel, 63 lbs CO2 reduced, 7 trees, and 99.3 mi travelled. Oh, crap, do I need to do this over? :roll:

Well, the car screen definitely said 101.7 mi (so maybe this is the 2% difference you've been describing). I thought it was 5.8 mi/kWh, but I'll need to look at the photo to make sure. Since this was my 1st real experience with stretching the distance, I didn't do so well documenting everything. Hopefully I'll do better next time. It was sure an experience, and yes you're right, it's not "easy" going past those warnings. However, I now know it is possible, even for a EV newbie like myself.

BTW, I forgot to mention I traveled 50 miles the day before this trip. Not a problem for most folks, but remember I only have L1. Since I normally keep the battery at 4-8 bars, it took some planning, but I was able to slowly boost the battery charge throughout the week, ending with 100% charge at 8am Sat. Then we had several short 65 mph trips with hills, culminating with a night out until nearly midnight, plug in for 10 hours to reach 100% again. This is why Nissan doesn't recommend L1. I would only recommend it to people who drive less than 40-50 mi/day.

Ha! I've listened to those Faux News bozos a couple of times, but got tired of getting yelled at. What's the saying somebody posted a while back? Never argue with an idiot because others won't be able to tell who's who. :lol: Sorry, I'm not very persuasive, although my best success with conservatives is that they agree with not sending money to the oil-producing dictatorships. Several people that know about my Leaf have said I might be brilliant because of the situation in the Middle East. Well, I just say the price of gas will continue to increase. It's not rocket science.

Reddy.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I just logged into Carwings (1st time I've really looked at this) and it says 5.4 mi/kWh, 19.2 kWh consumed by traction motor, 1.4 kWh regen, 0.6 kWh accessories, 3.1 hrs travel, 63 lbs CO2 reduced, 7 trees, and 99.3 mi travelled. Oh, crap, do I need to do this over? :roll:

Well, the car screen definitely said 101.7 mi (so maybe this is the 2% difference you've been describing). I thought it was 5.8 mi/kWh...

No, you're good. Just need 100 miles to be "in". But, your CarWings data is exactly why we DON'T include that data in any serious discussion about range.

5.8 miles/kWh multiplied by 21 is about 120 mile range, so it's more likely it was far less than 5.8.

 

[Reddy]

I double-checked and yes, the nav screen said 5.8. There was probably a few miles left in her since I had just received the VLBW, but probably not another 10 mi. The temps started out around 60 F and my battery has been at 5 bars for the past two months. Maybe the lower temps contributed to the lower battery capacity. I've got another route that I can drive a steady 55 mph and get a better idea. Perhaps this Sunday, however, I don't think it will warm up much. This time I'll try to do a better job of recording the data.

Reddy.

 

[planet4ever]

Maybe the lower temps contributed to the lower battery capacity.

How many battery temperature bars (on the left) do you have when you first get into the car in the morning?
Six? -- Your battery has fed well, and is fully sated.
Five? -- The car is on a bit of a diet. Your battery capacity will be slightly low today.
Four? -- Poor thing is shivering, and couldn't eat well. You'll definitely notice that it runs out of energy faster.
Three? -- Be very nice to the battery. It is not feeling at all well.
Two? -- Time to read through the very cold weather threads.

Note: Clearly not a scientific or engineering analysis. All opinions are my own, and not backed up by measurements.

Ray

 

[TonyWilliams]

I double-checked and yes, the nav screen said 5.8. There was probably a few miles left in her since I had just received the VLBW, but probably not another 10 mi....
Reddy.

Something isn't quite right. 60F is just a small hit on battery capacity, and if you had the heater blasting, we'd see that in the economy figure. Is it possible that the car sat outside overnight in significantly colder weather than 60F? Like 30F or 40F? Is it possible that you didn't reset the Nav screen economy before the trip began? Are you sure you didn't more than 101.7 miles?

First, we'll take a 0.1 reduction from the Nav screen to match the driver's screen, so 5.8 becomes 5.7

Your data....5.7 miles/kwh

85.2 miles to LBW... should be about 99 miles
13.8 miles to VLBW... almost perfect at 5.7 miles/kWh!!!!

There should be about 6 or 7 miles available at 5.7 until Turtle, and you only drove 2.7, so you still had 3 or 4 miles left (assuming the battery pack is reasonably balanced).

So, we've got a about 14 missing miles from fully charged to LBW. Is it possible that you started at 80% ? That would easily answer this question.

 

[Reddy]

Well, lot's of possibilities. I think the lower temperature must be the cause. I just checked the weather history and it reported 36 F overnight, much colder than I remember/thought. The car is stored in an uninsulated garage, so yes, the battery didn't really warm up. Also, it was out until almost midnight so it got cold there as well. If I had to guess, I suppose the battery could have been at 45. Also, since I only charge with L1 and it "finished" at 10am, 5 min before I left, I doubt there was any significant temp increase due to charging. Battery temps have been 5 bars for about two months, 4 bars before that. Battery balancing? Hmmm, at 8am the car estimated 30 min to full, but didn't reach it until 10am. Some of that may have been balancing. Here's another variable, I've never upgraded any software, or even been to the dealer for service/updates. It was delivered in Aug 2011, so after many of the early problems. Initially, I drove 35 mph and careful (coasting and little braking due to no regen, so yes, I know I charged to 100%). Stopped for coffee, then tried to keep it between 45-55 mph most of the way out. I did have a few spurts, even up to 65 to keep from impeding traffic. No heat or A/C (although I did turn on the fan toward the end of the return trip, but confirmed no kWh use for the CC). Also, I'm sure about the mileage, but less confident on the 5.8 mi/kWh on the console. I left with on older version of your chart in hand, and again, pretty sure that I reset the console so I could collect the proper mi/kWh numbers and use them with the chart. I'm not sure about "navigation screen" as I never use the navigation function because the roads aren't complicated here.

On another note, I am considering a 125 mi RT (same route but with the turn around point about 10 miles further out). Given my previous trips on this route, I'm estimating a minimum of 2 hr L2 (3 hr to be safe) at the Nissan dealership needed for the return. Unfortunately, the dealership is a couple of miles away from the concert hall and will be closed afterward, so I can't just leave the car during the concert. I might have the possibility of L1 as well, but probably less than 5 hr total for dinner/concert. Since the return trip would be around 11pm after the local dealership is closed, there's no room for error. Although I do have the benefit of slower city streets, I haven't found another L2 charging location. The weather forecast is 67H/45L so I won't get much improvement there. I'm still undecided about going and like to have several contingencies in case of emergency. I'll let you know.

Reddy

 

[edatoakrun]

I just logged into Carwings (1st time I've really looked at this) and it says 5.4 mi/kWh, 19.2 kWh consumed by traction motor, 1.4 kWh regen, 0.6 kWh accessories, 3.1 hrs travel, 63 lbs CO2 reduced, 7 trees, and 99.3 mi travelled. Oh, crap, do I need to do this over? :roll:

Well, the car screen definitely said 101.7 mi (so maybe this is the 2% difference you've been describing). I thought it was 5.8 mi/kWh, but I'll need to look at the photo to make sure. Since this was my 1st real experience with stretching the distance, I didn't do so well documenting everything. Hopefully I'll do better next time...

Reddy.

Hi Reddy.

This thread discuses the CW/dash odometer discrepancies, on a trip I recently took of almost identical miles and m/kWh, except I stopped a few miles short of 100, driving fewer miles past the VLBW.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8549&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So I'd suggest you check your dash odometer for accuracy, if you haven't already, but it sure looks like you got over 100 miles.

And you have posted the first report I've seen on the question I posted there this AM, seeming likely to contradict the other results I've seen posted, by others on other threads, as I wrote below.

...There are 388 views of this thread reported to date.

Have none of you actually looked at the three available kWh/mile reports, to see how they compare for the same trip?

Please report you results.

I have posted before, that since to date, every report I have seen, is that the ”behind the wheel” report matches the CW report, of m/kWh for the same trip, I have not seen the need to reset, and lose what I consider useful information, for total averages from delivery, from both of the in-car sources, on my LEAF.

And while your at it, in a future comparison, take a look at the three m/kWh reports for the same trip at very high m/kWh levels (down a grade) to find our if the variation between BTW dash and and the NAV screen, can be determined to be a constant, rather than the .1 variation reported at more common m/kWh ranges.

Again, once we answer this easily resolvable question, we can move on.

 

[Reddy]

Thanks for the link. I've read the thread, but have to admit that I'm a bit new to this. I rarely drive more than 50 miles per week and haven't paid much attention to efficiency. Some days I don't even charge. :shock: I only posted my trip results to let other newbies know that it's possible without too much "figuring." I rechecked and google maps reports 99.6 mi RT without my extra loops around the neighborhood, so that's pretty close to the odometer. As I said, I'll try to report future trips, but don't have access to Gids, %SOC, TED, etc. so I can only report CW and dash.

Reddy

 

[edatoakrun]

"Reddy"
...have to admit that I'm a bit new to this...

IMO, just means you are not as set in your thinking, as some of the "oldtimers" here seem to be.

Thanks for the link. I've read the thread...

As I said, I'll try to report future trips, but don't have access to Gids, %SOC, TED, etc. so I can only report CW and dash.

Reddy

Same here (if you directed that comment to me) as to having only "stock" LEAF data sources available.

"Reddy"

..Also, I'm sure about the mileage, but less confident on the 5.8 mi/kWh on the console...

Just to reiterate, IMO, correlating the three m/kWh reports seems integral to more precise battery capacity measurements, until LEAFSCAN or other sources are available, which is why I have suggested comparing the three reports.

As others have commented, the "outlier" in your report would appear to be the nav screen 5.8 m/kWh.

It would appear to me , likely more consistent, with both CW (as I think it may work) and your general trip description, if it had said about 5.5 kWh (5.4 CW report, corrected 2.5% for odometer error).

What was your total kWh use, as reported by CW in: Driving Records, Electricity Consumption, for that day? About 18.4 kWh, if I read your earlier comment correctly?

Are you quite sure you reset the nav screen at the exact same point your CW report began, and the photo you refer to, showing 5.8, was taken at the very end?

In any case, I'd appreciate it if you, and others, would and post observations of the three m/kWh reports, in the future.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I think the lower temperature must be the cause. I just checked the weather history and it reported 36 F overnight, much colder than I remember/thought. The car is stored in an uninsulated garage, so yes, the battery didn't really warm up. Also, it was out until almost midnight so it got cold there as well. If I had to guess, I suppose the battery could have been at 45.

And there it is!!!! That's why we use temperature data from both ambient and the battery (the new iPad/iPhone range app includes this feature also).

So, you had about 105 miles of range at 5.7, and a cozy warm battery at 70F would give 119 miles. So, about a 12% reduction in range.

Using my current rule of thumb, 1% reduction per 4F below 70F would suggest that the battery was:

70 - (12 * 4) = 22F

The coldest it could have been was 36F by your report, so the difference is 36 - 22 = 14 / 4 = 3.5% lower capacity difference between the lowest possible battery temp and the calculated temp.

Temperature makes a BIG difference, and battery temp is many times significantly different than ambient (both hotter and colder).

 

[MrIanB]

Second one in a row. I must have this car figured out. the car went into --- right at 99 miles and drive about another mile till I got home. Dont know how much further I could have gone since did not get the turtle icon.

Ian B

 

[TonyWilliams]

Second one in a row. I must have this car figured out. the car went into --- right at 99 miles and drive about another mile till I got home. Dont know how much further I could have gone since did not get the turtle icon.

Ian B

Well, actually, you do know how much further it would have gone had you kept track of key milestones.

The most important is miles/kWh for the trip.

Next, we need to know how many miles to Low Battery Warning.

And finally, how many miles to Very Low Battery Warning.

Then look at the range chart

 

[MrIanB]

Second one in a row. I must have this car figured out. the car went into --- right at 99 miles and drive about another mile till I got home. Dont know how much further I could have gone since did not get the turtle icon.

Ian B

Well, actually, you do know how much further it would have gone had you kept track of key milestones.

The most important is miles/kWh for the trip. 5.5 m/kw per carwings

Next, we need to know how many miles to Low Battery Warning. 85 when hit low battery.

And finally, how many miles to Very Low Battery Warning. 98 when hit low battery and then drove 2 miles home to hit final numbers.

Help me out with info provided next to your questions.

Ian B

Then look at the range chart

 

[TonyWilliams]

5.5 m/kw per carwings

85 when hit low battery

98 when hit low battery

2 miles home

range chart

If this is the latest version of CarWings, then subtract 0.1 from 5.5miles/kWh to get:

5.4 * 21 (confirm the battery temperature was somewhere around 70F) =

113.4 mile calculated range

95.4 mile calculated to LBW

106.4 miles calculated to VLB

7.0 miles to Turtle

So, we've got some big discrepancies. First, I would suspect CarWings as part of the problem, which is why I don't use it. Secondly, we don't have enough data to know the battery temp.

 

[N1ghtrider]

I can now report that more than half of my LEAF's total miles (1,538 out of 2,995) have been achieved on single charges of more than 100 miles. That is 51.4% of my total driving over 4 months, all of it under what I call "normal" conditions of mostly city traffic with some periods of interstate driving.

I do want to apologize to Tony and others I may have rubbed the wrong way with bragging about my miles-per-charge accomplishments. I recognize that I am nowhere near the top on miles-per-kWH, and I recognize that my driving conditions allow me to do things that those of you in hilly and cold areas cannot do. I just see myself as a soldier (maybe a Green Beret?) in the war on range anxiety. Let's all keep fighting together.

 

[Reddy]

No need to apologize N1ghtrider. From your info, I assume that you do most driving at night, little traffic, in Florida, with no hills and nice moderate temps. So yes, you should be able to have such high efficiency. No worries here. I just feel sorry for folks who spend so much time in their cars. Although I enjoy driving the Leaf more than any other car, it still doesn't compete with bicycling on a nice day. I've cycled to work every day this week and today is another perfect sunny, 50-70 degree day with no wind. Maybe I'll drive tomorrow, it's supposed to rain.

Reddy

 

[Weatherman]

...I recognize that my driving conditions allow me to do things that those of you in hilly and cold areas cannot do.

I think this is an important point.

Also, being a South Florida resident, I benefit from the flat terrain and the relatively mild temperatures, but I don't stand a snowball's chance in South Florida of reaching 100 miles on a charge on a routine basis. The reason is simple. About 80% of my miles are freeway miles at speeds of around 60-65 mph. I couldn't get to and from work on city streets at 35 to 45 mph even if I wanted to (there simply aren't any city streets between home and work where traffic goes anywhere near that slowly).

So, while racking up lots of 100 miles, plus, between charges is certainly interesting and demonstrates that the southeast Florida coast is the ideal location for electric vehicles, I'm still inclined to tell my friends that if they want to buy a LEAF, they should consider 70 miles between charges, year round, a more reasonable target.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

So, while racking up lots of 100 miles, plus, between charges is certainly interesting and demonstrates that the southeast Florida coast is the ideal location for electric vehicles, I'm still inclined to tell my friends that if they want to buy a LEAF, they should consider 70 miles between charges, year round, a more reasonable target.

Doing 100 miles from 80% charge give me a lot of confidence and it was "by accident/unexpected long trip". I will always try to keep car out of no bars zone as well 12 bars zone. There are not that many days that I do 100 miles as well charging at night is so convenient.