EVSE 200V 15A - Nissan Leaf 2017

[coulomb]

I would think at 208V it would be able to consume about 31amps?

It depends if the Power Factor Correction circuit has a lower limit. From earlier posts, it sounds like that limit is around 29.9 A (perhaps aiming for 30 A).

PF is the ratio of watts/VA

Yes, although see below.

Reactive components like coils and capacitors introduce a phase shift between the voltage and current. Some electricians (outside the US, I think) are more used to 'phi' -- the angular shift. Cos(phi) = PF

You're allowed to say ϕ now, so cos(ϕ) = Power Factor.

But that's for circuits with only linear elements (resistors, capacitors, and inductors). When non-linear elements (diodes, high frequency switching devices) are present, the power factor gets impacted (real power < apparent power), but more importantly, the current waveform can become highly non-sinusoidal. If you just rectified the mains and put a big capacitor after it, all the current would be drawn just at the peaks of the voltage waveform, and the peak current could be ten or a hundred times the average current. That's just not acceptable for relatively high power devices like EV on-board chargers. In Europe, I believe that anything using more than 400 W has to be power factor corrected.

So the most important job of the Power Factor Correction circuit is to cause the current to be largely (often 98-99%) proportional to the voltage, so that the EV looks like a resistive load. Think about how you could do that: a 240 VAC wave has a peak of about 340 V, but a lot of the time, it's lower than about 100 V. In order to make any current flow when the instantaneous AC voltage is that low, you have to boost it to around 400 V. When it's above 300 V, you boost less, but still aim for the same ≈400 VDC. That relatively smooth 400 VDC is what gets chopped up at high frequency, isolated through a high frequency transformer, finally rectified and sent to the car's main battery. The pulse width modulation of the waveform to the transformer is adjusted to achieve the desired charge current, keeping in mind various limits.

So the Power Factor Correction stage is essentially a boost converter, with some smarts to make the instantaneous current drawn be proportional to the instantaneous mains voltage. You can get a single chip that does 90% of the work, except for the actual switching. The actual switching will be via an Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor (IGBT) or perhaps a Metal Oxide Field Effect Transistor (MOSFET); at these voltages, it's more likely to be an IGBT. This device needs cooling and has a definite current limit; exceeding this current will almost certainly lead to failure. My guess is that it's this IGBT that imposes the ≈30 A limit to AC input current, even if that current does not reach the power limit for the charger. Though it could also be the input rectifier; 30 A is a common rated current limit for a bridge rectifier.

The overall power limit is usually set by the transistors driving the isolating transformer, and/or the diodes that rectify its output to DC. Obviously, the charger's firmware has to limit the input current to satisfy the limits for both the front end (the PFC stage), and the back end (the chopper and final rectifier).

[ Edit: power factor of the waveform to the transformer -> pulse width modulation of the waveform to the transformer ]

 

[Snakebitten]

Whatever you just said sounds like a good enough explanation for that missing Amp in my amateur V*A=W equation.

 

[MozzoAU]

As far as I understand things, the OBC handshakes with the EVSE and effectively requests capability. The EVSE defines a limit and then the he EVSE connects the AC to the OBC. The OBC will charge at up to either it's max rate 6.6/3.2 or at a rate set by the EVSE until it nears full. The current difference observed is dependent on the supply voltage according to ohms law. I=P/E from memory.

 

[Shameem]

I'm guessing you live in Australia or other 240 volt country and have a "private import" Japanese Leaf designed to run on a 200 volt, 15 amp circuit capable of 2.4 kWh charging. If this is the case, are you certain that your version Leaf will run on 240 volts used in your country? See the attached fact sheet for these types of Leaf.

Hi Steve, I am from Mauritius and indeed did an import of a Japanese Domestic Market (JDM). By the way, thanks for the EV fact sheet. Really appreciate it.

The thing is that when I bought the Nissan Leaf 2017 (ZE1) from Japan, they gave me a 200 V 15A Panasonic EVSE. In the Japanese owner's manual, it's written that I can't use an EVSE higher than that. So this means that the On-Board Charger in the car does not accept more than 200 V and not more than 15 A (Tell me if this is correct please?).
See "EVSE Details-Japanese" file encircled in red (In Japanese though...which when translated, states that "We recommend using it with AC 200V).

Since my country's voltage is 220-240 V, I bought a transformer to step down the voltage. When I charge, I set the voltage to 200 V on the transformer and also I can see the current is around 14-15 A.

Also, I saw from the Japanese website owner's manual that the normal charging is 3 or 6 kW for a ZE1. The thing is that I don't know if I can charge at 6kW because in the manual it's stated that the 6kW depends on the option/version of the car. So, I don't want to take the risk. What do you think?

Thanks for letting me know Steve.

 

[Shameem]

What convinces you that the EVSE is defective ?

Regarding EVSE, is there a reason you want 16 Amps ? I'm pretty sure that the car can pull up to 27 Amps if the circuit and EVSE allow it. Regarding voltage, any EVSE you might buy supports 240V, and most generic EVSE handle voltage down to 208V.

Actually, the only EVSE I've read about that does NOT support 208V is one that used to be bundled with the LEAF. I don't know about whatever Nissan puts in the car these days

Hi SageBrush, I am from Mauritius and indeed did an import of a Japanese Domestic Market (JDM).

The thing is that when I bought the Nissan Leaf 2017 (ZE1) from Japan, they gave me a 200 V 15A Panasonic EVSE. In the Japanese owner's manual, it's written that I can't use an EVSE higher than that. So this means that the On-Board Charger in the car does not accept more than 200 V and not more than 15 A (Tell me if this is correct please?). Since my country's voltage is 220-240 V, I bought a transformer to step down the voltage. When I charge, I set the voltage to 200 V on the transformer and also I can see the current is around 14-15 A.

Also, I saw from the Japanese website owner's manual that the normal charging is 3 or 6 kW for a ZE1. The thing is that I don't know if I can charge at 6kW because in the manual it's stated that the 6kW depends on the option/version of the car. So, I don't want to take the risk. What do you think?

The fact that I am convinced that the EVSE is defective is that it's blinking (all the 3 lights) and the reason stated is the system detected an excessive heat in the plug. When we checked the plug, it is ok.

Thanks for letting me know SageBrush.

 

[Shameem]

Coupla questions, did it ever charge off this EVSE since you owned it? Where are you located and what is the common voltage supplied in that country?
I believe all the EVSE's will not work if there is a ground-fault on the power supplied to it. so if your wiring doesn't have a ground, the EVSE will not work.
The onboard charger works from around 110 volts to 240 volts, (I don't know the exact cutoffs at each end) so you should be able to find an aftermarket unit that will work as well
What amp rated circuit are you trying to use, and if higher is available why only 16 amp?

I am from Mauritius and indeed did an import of a Japanese Domestic Market (JDM).

My wiring system has a ground. If ever this was not the case, the EVSE would have displayed the corresponding fault.

The thing is that when I bought the Nissan Leaf 2017 (ZE1) from Japan, they gave me a 200 V 15A Panasonic EVSE. In the Japanese owner's manual, it's written that I can't use an EVSE higher than that. So this means that the On-Board Charger in the car does not accept more than 200 V and not more than 15 A (Tell me if this is correct please?).

Since my country's voltage is 220-240 V, I bought a transformer to step down the voltage. When I charge, I set the voltage to 200 V on the transformer and also I can see the current is around 14-15 A.

Also, I saw from the Japanese website owner's manual that the normal charging is 3 or 6 kW for a ZE1. The thing is that I don't know if I can charge at 6kW because in the manual it's stated that the 6kW depends on the option/version of the car. So, I don't want to take the risk. What do you think?

Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Shameem]

I guess the question to be answered, is the 6.6Kw controlled by inlet amps or by Kw? I haven't found any info that states that one way or the other. I stand to be corrected if documentation can be found.
6.6kw @208 works out to be just shy of 32 amps.
If amps are the limiting factor that would mean the 6.6Kw charger would be de-rated in countries that have 200 volt mains, I don't believe that to be the case.
Looking through the charger section of the FSM, it doesn't spell it out that I can find. Since input is rectified and then inverted and rectified again, it isn't as simple as a transformer power supply.

How do we know the amount of current that will be drawn by the On-Board Charger (OBC)?

 

[Shameem]

As far as I understand things, the OBC handshakes with the EVSE and effectively requests capability. The EVSE defines a limit and then the he EVSE connects the AC to the OBC. The OBC will charge at up to either it's max rate 6.6/3.2 or at a rate set by the EVSE until it nears full. The current difference observed is dependent on the supply voltage according to ohms law. I=P/E from memory.

Hi Mozzo, I am from Mauritius and indeed did an import of a Japanese Domestic Market (JDM).

The thing is that when I bought the Nissan Leaf 2017 (ZE1) from Japan, they gave me a 200 V 15A Panasonic EVSE. In the Japanese owner's manual, it's written that I can't use an EVSE higher than that. So this means that the OBC in the car does not accept more than 200 V and not more than 15 A (Tell me if this is correct please?).

Since my country's voltage is 220-240 V, I bought a transformer to step down the voltage. When I charge, I set the voltage to 200 V on the transformer and also I can see the current is around 14-15 A.

Also, I saw from the Japanese website owner's manual that the normal charging is 3 or 6 kW for a ZE1. The thing is that I don't know if I can charge at 6kW because in the manual it's stated that the 6kW depends on the option/version of the car. So, I don't want to take the risk. What do you think?

Thanks for letting me know Mozzo.

 

[coulomb]

In the Japanese owner's manual, it's written that I can't use an EVSE higher than that. So this means that the On-Board Charger in the car does not accept more than 200 V and not more than 15 A (Tell me if this is correct please?).

No, I'm pretty sure that it means that there is a power supply in the EVSE (not the on-board charger) that has a 200 V maximum. Almost certainly, it has an iron transformer that will saturate at significantly higher than 200 V input, causing the transformer to dissipate heat, probably enough to destroy itself in time (perhaps a few hours of operation).

[ Edit: As for the 15 A maximum AC charge current, that is probably correct, but various things like the cable used could have affected the current drawn. ]

So all you need is a different EVSE ("AC charger") to plug into you car that doesn't have the 200 V limitation. Then you won't need the step-down transformer, which is no doubt bulky, has some losses, and would have cost a pretty penny.

The thing is that I don't know if I can charge at 6kW because in the manual it's stated that the 6kW depends on the option/version of the car. So, I don't want to take the risk.

There is no risk. If you use an EVSE with a higher current capability (i.e. more than about 15 A), then the on-board charger will simply limit itself to what it can safely use.

How do we know the amount of current that will be drawn by the On-Board Charger (OBC)?

The easiest way is probably to take it to a 32 A public AC charger (if that's convenient where you live) and note the power that is delivered. The EVSE or the car will tell you what power is drawn. Divide it by the line voltage (e.g. 240) to get the current. It will likely draw 3.3 kW or 6 kW or 6.6 kW; you'll probably soon figure out which it is.

A DC charger (CHAdeMO for Leafs) won't tell you anything about the on-board charger, as it is not used with DC charging.

Edit 2: Can you post the exact wording from the manual regarding the 200 V limitation? I'm 99% sure† that all Leafs can accept well over 240 V safely, but if I'm wrong it could be very costly.

† For example, there used to be a modification for 200 V EVSEs that allowed them to safely use 240 V. I think it replaced the 200 V transformer with a 240 V one, or perhaps it replaced the whole EVSE logic power supply. It would not make sense to make this modification if the car could not accept more than 200 V.

 

[Shameem]

As far as I understand things, the OBC handshakes with the EVSE and effectively requests capability. The EVSE defines a limit and then the he EVSE connects the AC to the OBC. The OBC will charge at up to either it's max rate 6.6/3.2 or at a rate set by the EVSE until it nears full. The current difference observed is dependent on the supply voltage according to ohms law. I=P/E from memory.

Hi Mozzo, I am from Mauritius and indeed did an import of a Japanese Domestic Market (JDM).

The thing is that when I bought the Nissan Leaf 2017 (ZE1) from Japan, they gave me a 200 V 15A Panasonic EVSE. In the Japanese owner's manual, it's written that I can't use an EVSE higher than that. So this means that the OBC in the car does not accept more than 200 V and not more than 15 A (Tell me if this is correct please?).

Since my country's voltage is 220-240 V, I bought a transformer to step down the voltage. When I charge, I set the voltage to 200 V on the transformer and also I can see the current is around 14-15 A.

Also, I saw from the Japanese website owner's manual that the normal charging is 3 or 6 kW for a ZE1. The thing is that I don't know if I can charge at 6kW because in the manual it's stated that the 6kW depends on the option/version of the car. So, I don't want to take the risk. What do you think?

Thanks for letting me know Mozzo.

No, I'm pretty sure that it means that there is a power supply in the EVSE (not the on-board charger) that has a 200 V maximum. Almost certainly, it has an iron transformer that will saturate at significantly higher than 200 V input, causing the transformer to dissipate heat, probably enough to destroy itself in time (perhaps a few hours of operation).

[ Edit: As for the 15 A maximum AC charge current, that is probably correct, but various things like the cable used could have affected the current drawn. ]

So all you need is a different EVSE ("AC charger") to plug into you car that doesn't have the 200 V limitation. Then you won't need the step-down transformer, which is no doubt bulky, has some losses, and would have cost a pretty penny.


There is no risk. If you use an EVSE with a higher current capability (i.e. more than about 15 A), then the on-board charger will simply limit itself to what it can safely use.


The easiest way is probably to take it to a 32 A public AC charger (if that's convenient where you live) and note the power that is delivered. The EVSE or the car will tell you what power is drawn. Divide it by the line voltage (e.g. 240) to get the current. It will likely draw 3.3 kW or 6 kW or 6.6 kW; you'll probably soon figure out which it is.

A DC charger (CHAdeMO for Leafs) won't tell you anything about the on-board charger, as it is not used with DC charging.

Edit 2: Can you post the exact wording from the manual regarding the 200 V limitation? I'm 99% sure† that all Leafs can accept well over 240 V safely, but if I'm wrong it could be very costly.

† For example, there used to be a modification for 200 V EVSEs that allowed them to safely use 240 V. I think it replaced the 200 V transformer with a 240 V one, or perhaps it replaced the whole EVSE logic power supply. It would not make sense to make this modification if the car could not accept more than 200 V.

Hi Coulomb,

Thanks for your reply. Really clear - "then the on-board charger will simply limit itself to what it can safely use"

However, it's not the EVSE which has a 200 V limitation. See "EVSE Details-Japanese" file encircled in red (In Japanese though...which when translated, states that "We recommend using it with AC 200V).

In addition to that, @Steve52 from the group sent me the EV fact sheet ("EV Nissan Leaf Fact Sheet" file) for Japanese Domestic Market Nissan Leaf which I imported. In that file, it is mentioned that it charges at a maximum of 3.3 kW.

As for the current drawn, with my step-down transformer set at 200V, I can see that the current drawn is about 14-15A.
Can you please confirm if I can use a 240 V EVSE? Because I presume that since my transformer will deliver 200 V, then the same voltage will go through the EVSE. Correct?

Thank you again.

 

[Shameem]

Hi Steve, I am from Mauritius and indeed did an import of a Japanese Domestic Market (JDM). By the way, thanks for the EV fact sheet. Really appreciate it.

The thing is that when I bought the Nissan Leaf 2017 (ZE1) from Japan, they gave me a 200 V 15A Panasonic EVSE. In the Japanese owner's manual, it's written that I can't use an EVSE higher than that. So this means that the On-Board Charger in the car does not accept more than 200 V and not more than 15 A (Tell me if this is correct please?).
See "EVSE Details-Japanese" file encircled in red (In Japanese though...which when translated, states that "We recommend using it with AC 200V).

Since my country's voltage is 220-240 V, I bought a transformer to step down the voltage. When I charge, I set the voltage to 200 V on the transformer and also I can see the current is around 14-15 A.

Also, I saw from the Japanese website owner's manual that the normal charging is 3 or 6 kW for a ZE1. The thing is that I don't know if I can charge at 6kW because in the manual it's stated that the 6kW depends on the option/version of the car. So, I don't want to take the risk. What do you think?

Thanks for letting me know Steve.

 

[SageBrush]

Coulomb gave excellent advice.

The thing is that when I bought the Nissan Leaf 2017 (ZE1) from Japan, they gave me a 200 V 15A Panasonic EVSE. In the Japanese owner's manual, it's written that I can't use an EVSE higher than that.

Can we see a translation ? It may be that your have a 3.3 kW OBC, and the manual was just pointing out that you are limited to around 15 Amps. I'm not positive, but I think that is what is going on.

Regarding the over-heating, that is usually a loose wire. Power down your circuit and then reseat and torque to spec all the wire connections.

 

[cornbinder89]

Yes, you can use a "charger" that is made for up to 240 volts, I listed one on the 1st page that can take between 90-250 volts. The on board chargers are all either 3.3Kw or 6.6 kw. So you would be fine with any charging cord that will work on the voltage of your country.
There is an older thread about NZ where they were banning the sale of the JDM charge cord because it would overheat and fail on NL's higher power voltage. Many people in NL buy used JDM cars and were making an adapter to plug into there mains.
Simple solution is to buy a cord that can take the voltage you have, much cheaper than buying a transformer,

 

[Shameem]

Coulomb gave excellent advice.



Can we see a translation ? It may be that your have a 3.3 kW OBC, and the manual was just pointing out that you are limited to around 15 Amps. I'm not positive, but I think that is what is going on.

Regarding the over-heating, that is usually a loose wire. Power down your circuit and then reseat and torque to spec all the wire connections.

Thanks SageBrush!

I don't have a translated version but I used google translate app from my mobile.

Yeah I have a 3 kW OBC and as specified in the Guide, 200 V and 15 A.

We have already worked on the loose connection. I am having the EVSE issue at work and at home also. So, we can eliminate the loose connection.

 

[Shameem]

Yes, you can use a "charger" that is made for up to 240 volts, I listed one on the 1st page that can take between 90-250 volts. The on board chargers are all either 3.3Kw or 6.6 kw. So you would be fine with any charging cord that will work on the voltage of your country.
There is an older thread about NZ where they were banning the sale of the JDM charge cord because it would overheat and fail on NL's higher power voltage. Many people in NL buy used JDM cars and were making an adapter to plug into there mains.
Simple solution is to buy a cord that can take the voltage you have, much cheaper than buying a transformer,

So I can use an EVSE of 240 volts because voltage delivered by the transformer is 200V. Correct?
FYI, I have already bought a step down transformer.
I am seeing to buy a new EVSE 240 V (transformer will be set at 200 V so as to deliver 200 V to the OBC) and adjustable current of 10 A, 16 A...

Therefore transformer set to 200 V and current at 16 A... this will give around 3.2 kW

Thank you!

 

[Shameem]

@coulomb, @Steve52, @SageBrush, @cornbinder89:
If my output voltage from my step-down transformer is 200 V, can I connect it to a 240 V EVSE?
See in attached file what I am planning to do (Buy a 240 V and 16 A EVSE).

Or I have to connect it to a 200 V EVSE?

Thanks a lot in advance guys!

 

[cornbinder89]

Ok, let me try and clear this up a bit. As far as I know there are only two onboard chargers made for the Leaf, a 3.3Kw and 6.6Kw (3 kw and 6kw output). The problem is the EVSE (some refer to this as a "wall charger") that came with the JDM car is the problem.
If you buy an aftermarket EVSE that is listed for your countries voltage, it will work with the charger in the car. You will not need and shouldn't use the step-down transformer. Just plug in the EVSE (or have he hard wired) and plug it into your Leaf.
As I pointed out much earlier, the one that came with my car will work with voltages from 90- 250 volts. so will work with 220-230 volts and does fine on my 240 volt input.
The EVSE just communicates with the onboard charger and tells it what voltage and the max current it can draw from the supply, most aftermarket EVSE work with many input voltages and frequencies. The EVSE doesn't do the charging it just supplies the current to the onboard charger. Since the input is converted to DC before being inverted up to battery power, the input voltage and frequency doesn't effect it, as long as it is within broad range of acceptable input voltages.

 

[Shameem]

Ok, let me try and clear this up a bit. As far as I know there are only two onboard chargers made for the Leaf, a 3.3Kw and 6.6Kw (3 kw and 6kw output). The problem is the EVSE (some refer to this as a "wall charger") that came with the JDM car is the problem.
If you buy an aftermarket EVSE that is listed for your countries voltage, it will work with the charger in the car. You will not need and shouldn't use the step-down transformer. Just plug in the EVSE (or have he hard wired) and plug it into your Leaf.
As I pointed out much earlier, the one that came with my car will work with voltages from 90- 250 volts. so will work with 220-230 volts and does fine on my 240 volt input.
The EVSE just communicates with the onboard charger and tells it what voltage and the max current it can draw from the supply, most aftermarket EVSE work with many input voltages and frequencies. The EVSE doesn't do the charging it just supplies the current to the onboard charger. Since the input is converted to DC before being inverted up to battery power, the input voltage and frequency doesn't effect it, as long as it is within broad range of acceptable input voltages.

Got your point, but when I bought the JDM Leaf i was given a 200 V and 15 A EVSE. In addition to that, as mentioned earlier, in the Car's owner manual, it's written to use a 200 V source. That's why I bought a step down transformer.

Indeed, I know that the EVSE just filters the current and acts as an extension...

That's why I am using a transformer. My question is (as per the attached file in the previous post), can I use a 240 V EVSE through which 200 V will pass from the transformer?

Thank you.

 

[cornbinder89]

Again, you don't need to, just plug the 240 volt into the EVSE and plug that into the car. So far I've seen nothing that states that JDM cars got a special JDM onboard charger. The onboard charger on mine, will work with any voltage between 100 and 240, So you don't need to feed through the transformer you just need a new EVSE.
Many people in NZ and Australia buy JDM cars and charge them on their 220 volt power without issue.

 

[Steve52]

If you already have the step-down transformer, I see no reason not to use it but being from the USA, I have no experience using 240 volts on a 200 volt rated vehicle. The step-down transformer will cause a bit of loss of power in order to perform the step-down function. Since many EVSEs work at either 120 volts or 240 volts, it would make sense that it would work at 200 volts. You should be able to verify with the specs of the EVSE you intend to buy.