TonyWilliams
Well-known member
I have a scheduled upcoming call to AV about the DC ChaDeMo quick chargers. Post whatever questions you'd like me to ask.
Tony
Tony
Upcoming call to Aerovironment about DC quick chargers
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TonyWilliams
Well-known member
This is a call with a manufacturer. I'm not sure whether they are involved with installations.
garygid
Well-known member
Price sheet?
Spec Sheet?
Installation Manual?
Owner Manual?
Availability Schedule?
Spec Sheet?
Installation Manual?
Owner Manual?
Availability Schedule?
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
garygid said:
My questions, of course, are price / availability. Also, a big one, can we get a 48kW unit (480v*100a) cut down to 19.2kW (240v*80a or 208v*92a).
Herm
Well-known member
a schematic, for the curious among us...
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
vin944 said:
I want it limited to 80 amps at 240v (for our commercial demand fee issue). I guess you could use it at home!
hill
Well-known member
Oh believe me ... when someone coughs up that kind of dough for a charger, you can be SURE they discuss with AV such things as feasability at that location, where EVER that may be.TonyWilliams said:
With that in mind, if anythings coming into the north San Diego / south O.C. border area, THAT would be great.
That's another one worth while.TonyWilliams said:
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
Hill,
I can tell you that there are plenty of folks who realize that there needs to be a charger there. Unfortunately, both north and south of Camp Pendleton is SDGE territory, so both locations have to mitigate in some way that huge monthly fee.
SDGE has volunteered to the CPUC to install and run chargers in these undeveloped areas. Obviously, if they get approval, you WILL GET CHARGERS. With control of the cost of electricity and the demand fees internally, I think we'll quickly have a monopoly that nobody else could ever compete with.
There's another company actively raising capital for a "gas station" type place north of Legoland.
Our tiny group of San Diego LEAFers are working on it. After Jan 1, 2012, when the EV Project "free" installs are over, I think we will have some of LA charging outfits sniffing around more.
Ecotality will get a few installed, but whether one ends up there, who knows.
I won't be spending any time asking folks in Canada about my potential installation issues here, beyond the specific prima facia issue; sub 20kW power draw, convertible to 48kW.
I can tell you that there are plenty of folks who realize that there needs to be a charger there. Unfortunately, both north and south of Camp Pendleton is SDGE territory, so both locations have to mitigate in some way that huge monthly fee.
SDGE has volunteered to the CPUC to install and run chargers in these undeveloped areas. Obviously, if they get approval, you WILL GET CHARGERS. With control of the cost of electricity and the demand fees internally, I think we'll quickly have a monopoly that nobody else could ever compete with.
There's another company actively raising capital for a "gas station" type place north of Legoland.
Our tiny group of San Diego LEAFers are working on it. After Jan 1, 2012, when the EV Project "free" installs are over, I think we will have some of LA charging outfits sniffing around more.
Ecotality will get a few installed, but whether one ends up there, who knows.
I won't be spending any time asking folks in Canada about my potential installation issues here, beyond the specific prima facia issue; sub 20kW power draw, convertible to 48kW.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
I did complete the call from AV today, talking with Kristen H. in Monrovia, California. http://evsolutions.avinc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
She was quick to offer that they have sold "hundreds" of these UL listed DC ChaDeMo quick chargers, many of those in California. The only problem.... none of those are public; all sold to private parties. I mentioned how my solution was a not-public solution, also.
To get any kind of discount, we'd have to buy "10 or 20". The unit comes with an installation guide for the electrician. There are wildly different warranties for different components of the unit. There is a service contract available.
She suggested that we should not consider non-UL listed chargers like the 18.3kW Swiss made unit because local government permit offices might not approve a permit. I offered that insurance might be more problematic. She said that Japan does NOT have an equivalent to UL listing. She was very familiar with the PGE DC charger in Vacaville.
The AV ChaDeMo DC charger, unlike the two separate units of the Ecotality DC charger (main gas station pump looking part, then an equally large separate transformer) uses just one box for everything.
It comes standard with an RFID card interface.
It could be configured for 480v or 208v, but requires 3 phase, therefore no 240v.
We talked just a bit on limiting the unit to 20kW, and she seemed completely perplex by the idea; "nobody else has asked for this" was stated several times, and even when I carefully explained the utility demand fee situation, I got the impression that she either didn't believe me, or didn't think it was important, and just didn't care.
I told her clearly that just demand fees might cost $4000 per month, or $48,000 per year, and almost a half million dollars over ten years. Her response was that it might be cheaper to pay the demand fees than modifying her DC charger. Soooooo, I have no idea where that might go.
A quote is only done by mail, and not verbally over the phone, which I hope to be getting in the coming days (or not).
As a side note, the entire time we talked, there was a lot of background noise that sounded like washing her coffee cup and making breakfast, or something (call started at 8am). She clearly was distracted, and somewhat dismissive. When she gave me her email address, I read it back phonetically, "at Alpha Victor India November Charlie dot com", her response was, "whatever".
She obviously is very busy, as I had to wait a week just to make this scheduled call.
The bottom line: I fully expect both AV and Ecotality (the only two with UL listings so far, that I'm aware of) to be VERY expensive. The Ecotality units won't be available for sale until the end of the EVproject "free" units, after 31 Dec 2011.
She was quick to offer that they have sold "hundreds" of these UL listed DC ChaDeMo quick chargers, many of those in California. The only problem.... none of those are public; all sold to private parties. I mentioned how my solution was a not-public solution, also.
To get any kind of discount, we'd have to buy "10 or 20". The unit comes with an installation guide for the electrician. There are wildly different warranties for different components of the unit. There is a service contract available.
She suggested that we should not consider non-UL listed chargers like the 18.3kW Swiss made unit because local government permit offices might not approve a permit. I offered that insurance might be more problematic. She said that Japan does NOT have an equivalent to UL listing. She was very familiar with the PGE DC charger in Vacaville.
The AV ChaDeMo DC charger, unlike the two separate units of the Ecotality DC charger (main gas station pump looking part, then an equally large separate transformer) uses just one box for everything.
It comes standard with an RFID card interface.
It could be configured for 480v or 208v, but requires 3 phase, therefore no 240v.
We talked just a bit on limiting the unit to 20kW, and she seemed completely perplex by the idea; "nobody else has asked for this" was stated several times, and even when I carefully explained the utility demand fee situation, I got the impression that she either didn't believe me, or didn't think it was important, and just didn't care.
I told her clearly that just demand fees might cost $4000 per month, or $48,000 per year, and almost a half million dollars over ten years. Her response was that it might be cheaper to pay the demand fees than modifying her DC charger. Soooooo, I have no idea where that might go.
A quote is only done by mail, and not verbally over the phone, which I hope to be getting in the coming days (or not).
As a side note, the entire time we talked, there was a lot of background noise that sounded like washing her coffee cup and making breakfast, or something (call started at 8am). She clearly was distracted, and somewhat dismissive. When she gave me her email address, I read it back phonetically, "at Alpha Victor India November Charlie dot com", her response was, "whatever".
She obviously is very busy, as I had to wait a week just to make this scheduled call.
The bottom line: I fully expect both AV and Ecotality (the only two with UL listings so far, that I'm aware of) to be VERY expensive. The Ecotality units won't be available for sale until the end of the EVproject "free" units, after 31 Dec 2011.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
TangoKilo said:Hundreds to private parties??.... I have not noticed any "brown outs" around my neighborhood, so I figure there's nobody around here with one... :mrgreen:
Thanks for your effort...
I suspect those hundreds are "on paper" and not delivered. Also, there's probably a few big government, Fedex (with their fleet of electric vans) type companies, or other deep pocket fleet sales (all private).
But, clearly, at least until competition shows up with UL listed ChaDeMo chargers, they've got a strong lead on their competition.
garygid
Well-known member
Changing the max OUTPUT current in one of these QC machines should be simply changing one byte in the Control Firmware.
Limiting (or even monitoring) the INPUT power might not be included in the design at all.
Limiting (or even monitoring) the INPUT power might not be included in the design at all.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
garygid said:
That one byte needs an engineering team, and lots of rubbing stamping, and I can only imagine what else. Hopefully, we'll know the cost soon.
I don't care how they do it, as long as it works, and is cost effective, and is able to be changed back should the demand fee rules change.
TRONZ
Well-known member
TonyWilliams said:
How much does half a million $ get you in PV? We all know the "final solution" for EV's is to source their power from clean renewable energy. This needs to be a fundamental strategy not only to keep EV's clean but as primary leverage against utilities who may be in bed with competing ($$$) interests. Wrestling with a demand fee is self defeating since a PU can modify (control) its price to do whatever it wants. The sooner PU's are placed in check the better. If a very power hungry technology like electrified public transportation says "you know where can stick your demand fee"... PU's will sit up straight and take notice! On site power generation for QC is a vital component of a truly competitive technology like EV's. It also makes it very hard to blame the technology whenever there is a power outage or the classic "longer tailpipe" con.
garygid
Well-known member
The one engineer/programmer that wrote the code and a day should be sufficient.
Best to go to the CPUC and speak to them about PUs not being allowed to sell EV-charging, but that the PU is wanting to do that. So, the PU is making it cost-prohibitive for there to be any successful competitors.
Best to go to the CPUC and speak to them about PUs not being allowed to sell EV-charging, but that the PU is wanting to do that. So, the PU is making it cost-prohibitive for there to be any successful competitors.
