Battery cost replacement?

According to the blog below they say battery replacement cost rumored at $15-$18k which seems awfully high. I thought I read a while back it was $10k.

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/05/02/this-is-what-its-like-to-live-with-the-nissan-leaf/

IBELEAF said:

According to the blog below they say battery replacement cost rumored at $15-$18k which seems awfully high. I thought I read a while back it was $10k.

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/05/02/this-is-what-its-like-to-live-with-the-nissan-leaf/

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The key word for me is 'rumored'. For the foreseeable future, any battery problems are likely to be covered under warranty. It will be a number of years before someone needs/wants to buy a replacement pack... I won't rely on rumors until that happens.

Thanks for the link to the article!! :mrgreen:

Nissan is keeping battery cost a closely guarded secret for competitive reasons. Plus I am sure it is changing too fast for them to firmly nail down anyways. The day they put a part number on it and sell it from their Parts Dept is the day we know how much it costs.

I'm sure that we will find out the price once somebody has a wreck that damages the pack.

And that price will have no basis in reality. It will be what the market will bear, because, where else can you get a Leaf battery pack?

The insurance company won't be able to get anybody to fix this car outside of a Nissan dealer. AutoZone won't be carrying the batteries any time soon. And the Leaf customer will want his car fixed pronto, so the insurance company will have Zero leverage in negotiating a repair / replacement price.

I wouldn't be too worried. We have an eight year warranty and battery pack prices will probably fall sharply a few years after production gets into full swing. I read somewhere that they estimate that the price for EV batteries will fall to 1/3 cost after ten years.

It's more of a curiosity then anything at this point

Amarillo's come up with one of the few scenarios that might let us see what the pack price is. Outside of some type of accident or similar circumstance, it really is a moot point until that initial delivery LEAFs are out of warranty, and then only if they pack needs replacement. By that time, hopefully the scale of the pack production will make this an affordable price.

That said - it would be nice for some of us hobbyists if we could buy batteries and figure out how to add them to the existing pack - something only a few hardcore might tackle before the car is out of warranty.

LakeLeaf said:

Amarillo's come up with one of the few scenarios that might let us see what the pack price is. Outside of some type of accident or similar circumstance, it really is a moot point until that initial delivery LEAFs are out of warranty, and then only if they pack needs replacement. By that time, hopefully the scale of the pack production will make this an affordable price.

That said - it would be nice for some of us hobbyists if we could buy batteries and figure out how to add them to the existing pack - something only a few hardcore might tackle before the car is out of warranty.

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Too complicated and expensive to do properly, it can be done but does not make sense economically.

I believe that the replacement cost will be $5k-$8k. I have no facts to back that up, only wishful thinking that I don't want to mess with for a decade!!

Since the car is shipping cant you just call the dealer and have them look up the part?

IBELEAF said:

According to the blog below they say battery replacement cost rumored at $15-$18k which seems awfully high. I thought I read a while back it was $10k.

Click to expand...

Actually, the rumor I think I remember reading "a while back" was that a Volt battery would cost $10K to $12K. Since a Volt battery might be about 2/3 the capacity of a LEAF battery, the blogger quite possibly just multiplied the old Volt rumored numbers by 3/2 to come up with his new rumor. (Actually, I think the Volt battery is about 60% the capacity of the LEAF battery, but the Volt battery has a complex heating and cooling system built into it, which could well make up the difference.)

Ray

nader said:

Since the car is shipping cant you just call the dealer and have them look up the part?

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What he said...

My guess its about $18k now for a completely new pack.. but they wont sell you a new pack, instead a rebuilt one with your pack as a trade-in, much cheaper. Nissan has to be very careful about this since it can be real bad publicity, how any times we have seen that argument that the battery will have to be replaced at 5 years of age?.. most likely its good for the life of the car with degraded range. Owners with long range commutes will not be the norm, thats what degrades the pack prematurely.

Eventually about $250 per kwh plus some overhead for packaging as my wag.. about $7.5k

The major auto companies are exploring other options for used Li-ion batteries that do not meet the requirements for EV propulsion. These applications can involve use for stationary energy storage, one of which is often referred to as community energy storage. NREL has studied such options. One scenario is that the used degraded battery (to 80% capacity or so) is swapped for a new one at a reduced cost.

replacement cost is ALWAYS based on supply verses demand as the primary price driver. cost of manufacturing does play a big role especially in this situation when we essentially have new product, no established supply or distribution lines, etc.

historically, we see a rapid decline in the price especially when its associated with high tech. so we can apply Moores Law and say that price will be halved in 18 months.

so i will say that unless you have catastrophic failure caused un believably stupid decisions made on your part, you will probably pay pretty close to the $10,000 figure you mentioned.

now the part of Moore's Law that says performance will also double....well, we cant have everything

No price in the system at Nissan. One replaces the modules not the entire assembly which is also very labor intensive, drop pack, remove all modules, assemble, test, replace pack. VERY expensive in dealer hours. Take a look at the break down diagram at the dealer sometime.

So whats the per module pricing?

nader said:

So whats the per module pricing?

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As far as I can tell, they aren't available yet...

TRONZ said:

Nissan is keeping battery cost a closely guarded secret for competitive reasons. Plus I am sure it is changing too fast for them to firmly nail down anyways. The day they put a part number on it and sell it from their Parts Dept is the day we know how much it costs.

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That's the day we know the Parts Dept price for it, which is likely 3 to 4 times it's production and 2 times what it would retail for if sold as a normal retail item in a non-car dealer store! :shock:

I expect we'll see battery prices coming down a good 30 - 50 % over the next 5-8 years, with the greatest reductions being on newer technology batteries yet to hit the market. The LEAF pack will probably go down in price a little, but it may be better to keep a LEAF on an older battery as a short errand vehicle and purchase the LEAF Generation 4 or Tesla Model Z as they get new, cost reduced, higher capacity batteries incorporated into future generations of EVs. It's possible some nanotech egnineered batteries may provide a greater breakthrough in cost / range / performance. EVs work now for many people, but continued battery improvements will expand the marketplace significantly.

Just used Nissan's delivery-followup survey to seed them with this idea:

'Even though it's a long way off, Nissan should consider some sort of program to upgrade the battery pack as new technology becomes available that increases range. In several years, many Leaf owners would happily pay several thousand dollars for a dealer-installed battery swap-out that would double or triple range. Such a program would not just build goodwill among Leaf owners, it would set Nissan apart in the eyes of other people who haven't yet bought an electric vehicle. By that time there will likely be many manufacturers making electrics, and such a move would help Nissan continue its market-changing image. (It would also mean that we'd be more likely to look to Nissan when our other car -- an older ICE vehicle -- needs replacing.)'