Battery cost replacement?

[Herm]

In several years, many Leaf owners would happily pay several thousand dollars for a dealer-installed battery swap-out that would double or triple range.

Just to get an idea, how much would you be willing to pay?.. lets start low and work our way up, just pick one:

1. $4999 $66/kwh
2. $7999 $106/kwh
3. $9999 $133/kwh
4. $12999 $173/kwh
5. $15999 $213/kwh

Note that these will be inflation adjusted 2011 dollars and the battery will be 75kwh at the same weight and size.

 

[GeekEV]

Just to get an idea, how much would you be willing to pay?.

I know you said pick one, but I have to pick two because I have two different use cases. Using the car as I have it now, I don't really need the extra range all that much. So for that, I would be tempted to do it "just because" at the $4999 price point. If, however, I found I really needed the extra range, $7999 seems like about what I would expect such a pack to cost in the "mid-future". But of course, I'm just guessing. I would research going prices, etc. (of course), to avoid paying too much! :lol:

 

[nader]

In several years, many Leaf owners would happily pay several thousand dollars for a dealer-installed battery swap-out that would double or triple range.

Just to get an idea, how much would you be willing to pay?.. lets start low and work our way up, just pick one:

1. $4999 $66/kwh
2. $7999 $106/kwh
3. $9999 $133/kwh
4. $12999 $173/kwh
5. $15999 $213/kwh

Note that these will be inflation adjusted 2011 dollars and the battery will be 75kwh at the same weight and size.

First of all, Americans can't save that kind of money. So there these numbers will most definitely require a financing or lease program. Remember that this an entry level car. On the 2nd hand market, 3-5 years from now I imagine these cars will be selling for $10-15k so these are some serious numbers you are talking about here. For me, If I cant drive at least 50 miles on the highway I will be ditching the car or looking for aftermarket battery alternatives. Remember that even a worn pack will have value on the 2nd hand market.

With that said I'm in at $5k. It's like a new car, internally at least, and your scenario should yield at least 150 miles of real highway driving at 70mph.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

The insurance company won't be able to get anybody to fix this car outside of a Nissan dealer. AutoZone won't be carrying the batteries any time soon. And the Leaf customer will want his car fixed pronto, so the insurance company will have Zero leverage in negotiating a repair / replacement price.

Not entirely.. Any wreck that damages the battery pack has probably set off the expensive airbags, tweaked the frame, and done extensive body damage. It's probably a Total Loss before it damages the battery.

And any extreme quote from Nissan for battery repair would be met with the same -- Total Loss.

Enough of those, and the after repair cost on the Leaf starts to escalate, and the insurance companies care very much about this. Over the next few years, the comprehensive insurance costs on the Leaf would skyrocket, making it an unattractive car. That's the closed-loop feedback to Nissan.

This same pattern has happened with other cars -- fiberglass fancy body parts with no viable repair. The first year insurance is cheap, and once baseline data arrives, it climbs skyward in a hurry.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

75 kwh is pretty big and guessing the manufacturer will opt for a 52 kwh (EEStor hint) battery instead with the reduced weight. I think weight and not cost was the prime concern for Nissan here. Keep in mind the car comes in at 3400 lbs.... pretty heavy

 

[leaflover]

Is it any more clear at this time how much each module will cost for replacement or more importantly as a part? This article talks about an initial cost of between $9000 and $18000 for the entire pack at this time. The cost will no doubt drop when their battery factories are up and running.

Also there was some speculation about replacing the battery for an upgrade after about 5 years. I would guess that the BMS may also have to be upgraded if the battery chemistry is very different than the existing one. It may only be a software upgrade or it may usually require a hardware upgrade that could be mimiced in software.

 

[mitch672]

Did you see this article in ABG, each of the 48 cells was quoted at $662 replacement cost, making the pack price out to $31,753 for 48 modules, this is current pricing, I imagine it will be lower in several years, this also has several markups likely, but thats how the auto parts industry works...

Here is the link:
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/08/03/need-to-replace-a-nissan-leaf-battery-hows-19-392-31-753-u/

 

[Bassman]

In my other post on this subject, the Nissan Exec. in the video said that module cost will be in the hundreds not thousands and that only modules would need to be replaced, not the entire pack.

 

[leaflover]

I saw the article but agree with comments. This price includes the cost to remove the pack, disassemble it, troubleshoot which is the bad module, replace it and then reassemble the pack and reinstall it to the vehicle. There is an awful lot of overhead you can avoid by replacing the entire pack.

On the video they suggested several hundress of dollars. I am guessing no more than $300/ module or about $14400 for the pack.

I guess we will have to see if Nissan gives any further clues about either the present cost of the pack or an anticipated cost once the new factory is complete in Tennessee.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

$662 installed sounds right. so its probably $250 for the module and the rest is labor. anyone have an idea as to what it takes to drop that pack ? could it conceivably be a DIY ?

 

[N952JL]

I would be willing to pay 8000 for an upgrade that would bring the battery to 75KWh. What I wish they would do is post a range base on maintaining a steady 65mph on the interstate in addition to their other numbers like LA4 and EPA. 150 miles @ 70mph would be just over 2 hrs and would enable people to take medium road trips. Stopping every 2 hrs on the interstate and spending 30 mins on a Fast DC charge would make the EV much more viable in the long run.

 

[leaflover]

I would guess that you would need a floor jack and a lift to drop the pack. Lift the car, put the jack under the pack, unscrew the pack which is then supported on the floor jack. Lift the car off the pack, wheel the pack where you need to look at it... So it depends upon what you call DIY.

Lifts are only around $2000 now and may be considered cheap if this is the kind of DIY you do all the time.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I would guess that you would need a floor jack and a lift to drop the pack. Lift the car, put the jack under the pack, unscrew the pack which is then supported on the floor jack. Lift the car off the pack, wheel the pack where you need to look at it... So it depends upon what you call DIY.

Lifts are only around $2000 now and may be considered cheap if this is the kind of DIY you do all the time.

if the pack drops that easily, i think i can make my $60 floor jack work just fine. i think i might have to employ it to take a look. since the Leaf was not designed to have a swappable pack ala BP, i am thinking there is a bit more to that than meets the eye.

there is an access panel on the floorboard of the back seat. am guessing some wiring connections must be dealt with first before the drop can happen

 

[leaflover]

Sure there would be connections to the BMS and you may be turning off onboard computers that would need to be rebooted in some special way. I was only thinking of the heavy lifting. I am not sure if all the wiring goes through the BMS. While it is likely there might also be temp sensors, and the air ventilation system to deal with.

Ah... so it begins to get complicated. But it is the same thing. What do you consider DIY.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Ah... so it begins to get complicated. But it is the same thing. What do you consider DIY.

anything that provides detailed step by step instructions.

that is basically how i built my house. that was 23 years ago. its still standing

 

[mitch672]

I seem to remember seeing a "special" battery lift a long time ago, when one of the dealers was showing pictures of special equipment they received to work on the Leaf. It was a large flat surface with a hydraulic lift, from what I remember.

I think R & R on the battery pack should be left to Nissan dealers, at least until the warranty runs out on it, for now, or you have an opportunity to try and remove one at a "junk yard" for a totaled Leaf (have there been any yet? doubtful)

 

[wsbca]

75KWh. .....150 miles @ 70mph would be just over 2 hrs and would enable people to take medium road trips. Stopping every 2 hrs on the interstate and spending 30 mins on a Fast DC charge would make the EV much more viable in the long run.

I've seen several statements like this, and it doesn't make any sense to me....the DC fast charge _rate_ is fixed. Not that it couldn't be increased, but that would involve a different protocol and different hardware than is [supposedly] about to be deployed, no? If the battery gets bigger, whether drop in replacement in our existing vehicles, or a new model, it's going to take longer to charge from any given source, including fast DC charge. The current fast charge sounds like it's going to put about 60 freeway miles back into the car in 25 minutes, best case (80% charge, resulting realistic range 60 miles (assuming full charge realistic freeway speed range of 75)). To recharge a "150 mile" battery to, say, 80% from close to empty is going to take a couple of hours on fast charge, not 30 minutes... TANSTAAFL, blood from a turnip, laws of physics, yada yada....

 

[aqn]

I would guess that you would need a floor jack and a lift to drop the pack. Lift the car, put the jack under the pack, unscrew the pack which is then supported on the floor jack. Lift the car off the pack, wheel the pack where you need to look at it...

FYI: the LEAF battery pack is about 4 feet wide by 5 feet long, 10 inches thick and weighs 648 lbs. (2011 LEAF First Responder's Guide, page 9).

By comparison, a Chevy LS1 engine + T56 transmission weigh 609 lbs. Various Toyota Supra engines (presumably all six-cylinder) weigh 466 lbs. - 594 lbs. Honda 4-cylinder engines weigh 200-309. For more info, Google for "engine transmission weight".

 

[TonyWilliams]

All the battery removal information is in the maintenance manual.

 

[Smidge204]

I seem to remember seeing a "special" battery lift a long time ago, when one of the dealers was showing pictures of special equipment they received to work on the Leaf. It was a large flat surface with a hydraulic lift, from what I remember.

Betcha I could get that battery out unscathed with one of these and some scrap lumber :lol:

=Smidge=