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Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:24 am
by azdre
In the last few weeks, we've lost one of the 'available' bars (see picture). We've put 17,000 miles on it in 14 months. I immediately called the dealer, and he said it's normal, we'd lose one bar and then won't lose any more, and he's seen it in cars with only 6 months of use. He's had Nissan Engineers evaluate it and it's 'normal'. Battery test from 3/28/2012 was normal, 12 status bars, 5 stars.

At 100% charge, we only get about 3-5 miles now off of the 12th bar. I think I've had 10% drop in range in the last handful of months but I have no evidence to support that. Sometimes my old leadfoot ways return when I least expect it, so I don't want to shout much about overall range, but I "feel" like it's dropped significantly, and the loss of a bar supports that.

Has anyone else seen this? This does not seem like the 'gradual' loss advertised.


EDIT: 7/30/2012
Summary of thread: This is definitely a problem in hot climates. There appears to be NO correlation to car color, air conditioned garages, 80% charging, driving efficiency, miles driven, quick charging, or anything else beside outside ambient temperature. In other words, cars are being treated exactly as outlined in the owner's manual. We personally know at least a dozen leaf owners, many not mentioned below that have lost at least 15% capacity. According to the ScanGuage, the 2 that haven't lost one, are in the 80's and will be losing one soon. Nissan still claims this is normal, gradual loss and not covered under warranty. Phoenix has now seen up to 30% loss in one year, 25,000 miles of driving.

After a news story run on CBS5 Phoenix, Nissan decided to take 6 of the most affected cars out to Casa Grande for testing. Results are not available as of yet.

Also: I updated the title of this thread. 11 bars is the least of our problems at this point!

For an updated list of affected owners, as reported to members of this thread, see the wiki:
wiki/index.php?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For an another summary of some of the topics in this thread, see this post:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9694" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:38 am
by gbarry42
This is the first example I've heard of (can you take a photo?). Common belief is that you have to lose a lot of capacity before you see any indication like this. There's one fellow who has 20,000 miles of 100% charge use, and no indication of capacity loss.

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:42 am
by adric22
azdre wrote:Has anyone else seen this? This does not seem like the 'gradual' loss advertised.

I suspect this is normal for the mileage and age of the vehicle. Other things may influence it such as heat, charging to 100% a lot, etc. When I went to get my 1 year inspection recently, they said I'd lost about 2% capacity, but I guess that was not enough to cause a loss of one of the bars on mine yet. I have had mine 1 year and about 9,000 miles.

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:45 am
by azdre
gbarry42 wrote:This is the first example I've heard of (can you take a photo?). Common belief is that you have to lose a lot of capacity before you see any indication like this. There's one fellow who has 20,000 miles of 100% charge use, and no indication of capacity loss.



There's 2 links in the post to a photo. I don't have access to a website or ftp site to link directly to the photo. You'll have to click on the FlickR link in the post.

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:49 am
by chris1howell
This is the photo...

Image
photo-3 by azdre, on Flickr

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:56 am
by surfingslovak
adric22 wrote:I suspect this is normal for the mileage and age of the vehicle. Other things may influence it such as heat, charging to 100% a lot, etc. When I went to get my 1 year inspection recently, they said I'd lost about 2% capacity, but I guess that was not enough to cause a loss of one of the bars on mine yet. I have had mine 1 year and about 9,000 miles.

Adric, yes, this would be in line with what we have seen elsewhere. Based on an NRL study and anecdotal data from Leaf owners, one would expect about 2% capacity loss per year, on average. Based on what I have seen and heard here and elsewhere, I would think that calender life will be the major driving factor for battery degradation. By extension, one would expect that ambient temperature and the long-term average state of charge will matter most, not a particular charging protocol.

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:00 am
by azdre
I may have found a related post in the Range topic.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=184486

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:01 am
by EdmondLeaf
Either way you slice it not so good new, and if this is gradual, by the time very limited warranty is over we will have 33% capacity left assuming equal bars

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:06 am
by Spies
I seem to recall in order for that first bar of the battery status indicator to disappear a sizable chunk of battery capacity would need to be lost. I can't seem to find at the moment what the first bar lost equates to. Anyone recall?

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:08 am
by EVDRIVER
You do live in a warm climate which is likely going to age a pack sooner. I would expect Nissan and the dealer to say almost everything besides a wheel falling off or 50% capacity loss in the first six months to be "normal". The arguments over what is gradual will continue but it won't matter in the end. I would certainly get more data on this issue though.