Petition for Tesla battery packs for LEAF's

Hello, my name is Travis and I'm the co-founder of Maine Electric Vehicle Association and I'm doing a little bit of dreaming/wishful thinking and hoping others will help.

My family owns two Nissan LEAF's, both 2013's, and as we all know, the battery pack and the limited range is the biggest downside to these awesome cars. There needs to be an aftermarket option for extended range battery packs (involves high level knowledge of Li-ion batteries and the ability to program them to work with LEAF hardware) and I would be willing to pay for the best for my LEAF.

So, I created a petition that I will be sending to Tesla. No, I don't expect them to stuff a 60kw pack in my car. Yes, I know they have a lot on their plate. But they are the best at what they do. And if anything, this is just to make some noise, get someone's attention and hopefully provide an aftermarket option to keep these cars on the road and away from the crusher.

I've received over 100 signers in 2 days. I'm hoping to get 1,000. Please help and sign on today!

https://www.change.org/p/maine-elec...utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink

Thanks, but no thanks. I prefer a battery system with no liquid cooling and better safety.

See http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?5243-Volt-thermal-management-system-temperature-band&p=43732#post43732 and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=336716#p336716.

If Tesla produced a pack, they'd need to also somehow shoehorn a battery cooling system into the Leaf, as well.

RegGuheert said:

Thanks, but no thanks. I prefer a battery system with no liquid cooling and better safety.

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When I bought my Leaf in 2012, I thought the simplicity of the Leaf system (no active cooling) was going to prove to be the better choice.
History has proved me wrong.

I've put down my deposit on a Model 3. The range degredation (down about 2/3 of original range) is just too much.
It does look like the battery chemistry is about the safest available. But it looks like when a Tesla battery pack fails, there's plenty of warning and time to leave the vehicle (as long as you're conscious).

RegGuheert said:

Thanks, but no thanks. I prefer a battery system with no liquid cooling and better safety.

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+1

garsh said:

When I bought my Leaf in 2012, I thought the simplicity of the Leaf system (no active cooling) was going to prove to be the better choice. History has proved me wrong.

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The bolded part is a non sequitur conclusion. There are battery chemistries existing today which are cheaper, safer, higher capacity and with many times the life of the Tesla system without any need for active cooling.

garsh said:

But it looks like when a Tesla battery pack fails, there's plenty of warning and time to leave the vehicle (as long as you're conscious).

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Unfortunately, the two people in Ohio last week were unconscious following the crash of their Model S.

When my Mercedes B was in an accident coolant leaked out of the Tesla battery pack. Fortunately it did not catch on fire but I was worried about that happening. It was still totaled due to the repair expense but if it had caught on fire it would be for sure totaled.

I would have taken a Volt battery back and TMS in an instant when I had my Leaf!

It requires 650 to 750 degrees surface temperature to ignite coolant so it was highly unlikely in your scenario...

GlennD said:

When my Mercedes B was in an accident coolant leaked out of the Tesla battery pack. Fortunately it did not catch on fire but I was worried about that happening. It was still totaled due to the repair expense but if it had caught on fire it would be for sure totaled.

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RegGuheert said:

garsh said:

When I bought my Leaf in 2012, I thought the simplicity of the Leaf system (no active cooling) was going to prove to be the better choice. History has proved me wrong.

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The bolded part is a non sequitur conclusion. There are battery chemistries existing today which are cheaper, safer, higher capacity and with many times the life of the Tesla system without any need for active cooling.

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Bring examples that beat 18650 cell parameters Tesla uses, include: price, safety data, capacity per volume/weight, longevity.

As a reference take note:
1) Average Tesla user has 1-2% degradation per year.
2) Not a single unexpected thermal runaway with 1,1+ billion cells.
3) Energy density is at least 265 Wh/kg.
4) Tesla keeps battery somewhere between 40-55C while in use (131F is the target)
4) In warm/hot weather Tesla is unable to keep battery overheating WITH active cooling during
charging at rates between 100-135kW. Estimated cooling power is at least 6kW.

I am sure Tesla knows that they can make money by making Leaf battery packs aftermarket , and then they would get many new Tesla customers...

I'm not just handing over my info to a stranger, sorry. Nice try though..

powersurge said:

I am sure Tesla knows that they can make money by making Leaf battery packs aftermarket , and then they would get many new Tesla customers...

I'm not just handing over my info to a stranger, sorry. Nice try though..

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That's too bad.. You've foiled my master plan :evil:

arnis said:

2) Not a single unexpected thermal runaway with 1,1+ billion cells.

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Except when packs get compromised and they go up in flames w/cells shooting up in the air.

A hand built custom Tesla battery for a LEAF would cost more than the newest LEAF with largest battery brand new.
Or consider a Used RAV4-EV.

https://www.carmax.com/search#Distance=all&Refinements=4294963153+4294958800&Zip=92652

cwerdna said:

arnis said:

2) Not a single unexpected thermal runaway with 1,1+ billion cells.

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Except when packs get compromised and they go up in flames w/cells shooting up in the air.

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I don't really see how that's different than driving around wtih 20 gallons of explosives under the rear seat of your typical ICE vehicle. Most of the time it is OK. In catastrophic events, sometimes it goes boom.

2k1Toaster said:

cwerdna said:

arnis said:

2) Not a single unexpected thermal runaway with 1,1+ billion cells.

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Except when packs get compromised and they go up in flames w/cells shooting up in the air.

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I don't really see how that's different than driving around wtih 20 gallons of explosives under the rear seat of your typical ICE vehicle. Most of the time it is OK. In catastrophic events, sometimes it goes boom.

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I've from a distance seen a raging car fire before, likely from the gasoline.

But that said, compare https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz37WycW-7E to the video at http://mashable.com/2016/11/04/fatal-tesla-crash-batteries-fires/. A crash in LA of a stolen Tesla Model S awhile back also showed similar behavior w/the cells: http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Stolen-Tesla-High-Speed-Chase-Fiery-Crash-in-West-Hollywood-265813821.html.

Tesla cells aren't all that great, reliability, durability and flammability make this s no go in a leaf

With the exception of flammability - which I consider to be statistically a non-issue in the real world - the Leaf battery is vastly inferior to the Tesla battery in every important area... Sorry, but the history of both batteries proves this very conclusively...

That said, the concept of putting a Tesla battery in a Leaf is simply silly... Technical considerations aside, why would Tesla have any interest in doing so? Answer: They wouldn't.

rmay635703 said:

Tesla cells aren't all that great, reliability, durability and flammability make this a no go in a leaf

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WOW! The Tesla trolls really came out of hiding on this one! :lol: I bet there's even some liberal hurt Mirai owners in this thread cursing now that Toyota is going back to EVs and the Hydrogen dreams are all over :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sweet dreams!!

P.S. My Tesla based Rav4 just finished an AWESOME drive back from Julian,CA in the freezing cold and I have 48k miles, tremendous amounts of QC'ing on it, tow all the time and only have 8 miles of degradation from the 152 original!

Yeah.. those (Panasonic/Tesla/Medtronic designed) batteries are soooooo bad :roll:

Meanwhile my 2012 Leaf sits in the driveway with only 1/2 the millage and almost 4 bars now :roll:

Take the active cooling away and package the TSLA cells in a leaf pack.

They are VERY much more fragile used in this way!