joeriv
Well-known member
Buying was way better for my 2017 S considering I received $20,500 in incentives and under MSRP - location CT.
new 2019 E+ leaf battery pack no active cooling?
- Thread starter aluminumwelder
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
golfcart
Well-known member
WetEV said:
I don't know what the 2019 are going for but there's a fully loaded 2018 SV currently on the lot at the dealer where I bought my 2015. Sticker is $37k+ and they're advertising it at $33k. Plus there's a $3500 fleet rebate available from the power company and 0% for 60 months from NMAC. I have no doubt I could get it for less than $30k OTD today. Only reason I'm holding off if to check out the eplus and see if Elon can deliver the $35k Model 3.
WetEV said:
How did we know that buying the last year Ford Pinto hatchback wasn't a great idea? They did, after all, install a gas tank shield... No one knows that buying a brand new Leaf with no TMS and higher cell density is a bad idea, but logic does tend to suggest that leasing one would be safer. My 2018 40kwh Leaf had lost 5.5% capacity (as of last November) after 6 months despite me doing everything humanly possible to keep the pack from getting hot.
garsh
Well-known member
Well, I did purchase my Leaf, and I do regret it. Temp was in the single digits today, and the car couldn't even make it 30 miles. Don't plan on your car having anywhere close to advertised range after 6 years.WetEV said:
Leaf15
Well-known member
Did you buy Leaf "residing all its life" in local market, or imported from California/Arizona/Florida/other_hot_place? Because later options will make anyone to regret it even in North East.garsh said:
WetEV
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
Well that's an apples and oranges. People burning to death compared with the cost per mile not being below $0.40 as you hoped, but rather being just under $0.50.
LeftieBiker said:
Ah yes, not just about 5% but 5.5%, even though the BMS's estimate isn't closer than +-3%
And cell capacity loss isn't linear, often much faster during the first cycles. But ignore that.
At that rate, you should lose 33% or so in just 3 years. And get a new battery. Almost as good as turning in a leased car and getting a new one in three years. But likely much cheaper.
Pollyanna would be proud. ;-)
WetEV
Well-known member
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_the_Paranoid_Android
garsh
Well-known member
You need to look through the old posts of this forum. I've been here from the start.Leaf15 said:
I put down my $100 reservation deposit to Nissan. I bought my Leaf brand new in early 2012, from a dealer 5 miles down the road, north of Pittsburgh PA. It's been kept in an integral garage (heated and cooled, basically) at home, and at a parking garage (kept out of the sun) at work. In other words, the car has been babied its entire life.
For some reason, people like you seem to think that the batteries are only going bad in places like Arizona. That's not true. They're going bad sooner in Arizona. It happens much more quickly in a hot climate. But the batteries are losing capacity no matter the climate. It just takes longer in a mild climate. But here I am, sitting at 100k miles on my Leaf, and I can no longer use it as a daily driver. I now have a commuter car that can no longer drive far enough (at least in the winter) to make a one-way journey to work.
So yes, it's very disappointing to hear that Nissan is continuing to use battery cells from the supplier that they've been trying to unload for the past year or two. The same batteries that have shown to have horrible degradation characteristics in every other application. If you don't live in Arizona and want to lease one for 3 years, I think you'll be fine. But if you want to buy the car and plan on holding onto it for 10 years (like I did), you're going to be very disappointed.
golfcart
Well-known member
SageBrush said:
This post could be copied and pasted into 90% of the threads on this forum and end most of the debates. The batteries are what they are, that is a deal breaker for some and not for others based on needs, desired bells and whistles, and actual cost paid for the vehicle.
E+ will guarantee 40 kWh for 8 years or 100k miles. Pro-pilot standard, DC QC standard, 215hp, 0-60 likely in low to mid 6 second range. Should be under $30k after incentives, likely cheaper if you can wait until fall.
2018/2019 40kWh with DC QC, pro-pilot, and and 0-60 in the mid 7 second range will guarantee 27 kWh for 8 years or 100k miles. One can be had right now for less than $25k right now after incentives, and even less in some markets (my market included).
If that suits your needs then get it, if it doesn't then get something else. I feel bad for the early Leaf adopters (pre-2015 or so) that got screwed with the unexpected degradation but we all know what we're signing up for at this point.
"We all" in this case being the relatively small number of people who have read about the battery issues here and at the one or two other sites that have described it more or less correctly. Most people buying or leasing a new or used Leaf aren't being informed of the battery issues, making this an ongoing cluster-fail, not old news...
golfcart
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
I think the context of my statement makes it pretty clear I'm not talking about the general public but rather the regular posters on MNL that get caught up in these debates over and over again.
Why do we have 'these debates over and over again'? Because folks like WetEV keep misleading new people, in the apparent hope that they will buy a New Leaf without worrying about the battery - as long as they don't live in Arizona or maybe Florida or New Mexico. Anyplace else is apparently fine, now that Nissan has fixed the battery issues. :|
golfcart
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
That in no way diminishes what I said, take it up with WetEV if u have a problem with what that poster is saying. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in regards to my post.
You ask why we keep having this debate. The answer is that we have two opposing opinions, with both sides wanting to convince others that theirs is the correct one. This is how human nature works. Are you requesting that neither side present their arguments ever again, that we only argue with each other in private messages, or...? My motivation is to stop people who want to drive a Leaf from making a very expensive mistake by buying one new at anything other than a very large discount, unless they live in a cool climate. The other side seems to want to promote sales of the Leaf, because they think it's a great car with no real remaining battery issues. I understand your desire to stop reading this stuff. (I would like to not feel I have to keep arguing this, FWIW.) Now imagine that I asked you to never express that opinion in public here, ever again. Do you understand the situation now?
golfcart
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
I asked no such thing. You seem to be inferring quite a bit.
As interesting as this is I'm gonna have to let it be for a bit. I selfishly procreated and have to make some more money in order to ensure the health and we'll being of my little resource waster... Enjoy the rest of your day though.
Leaf15
Well-known member
That is the reason I asked. Bad news really, but mine was used CPO with over 3 years and 29K miles and battery was at SOH 98% when I got it and LeafSpy showing > 103% of SOC (in GIDs). SOH is at 94% right now after +5K miles, but it is winter and it was really cold day I took the reading. I think it will move back higher in the summer. It will take over 10 years for me to hit 100K. Although, I use it for every errand when possible, even create some fake ones time-to-time.garsh said:
There is an article https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/06/40000-miles-with-the-2018-nissan-leaf/ of some dude really abusing Leaf on Uber in very hot place, with 3-4 QC a day and dumping ice of the battery to help with QC and he had 95% SOH at 5K miles and after 40K of abuse SOH is at 92.5%.
Some folks make claims: if you reset BMS you may get pretty good chunk of capacity back as some of degradation simply added implicitly by computer as projected loss of capacity. Pretty much 50/50 chance of getting some capacity back. I would ask dealership to reset BMS. They should do it for ~$100, but I think it is worse a try in your situation. It is easy to verify as your capacity bars will reset to 12 and then later BMS will learn real capacity of the battery and adjust it accordingly, so projected loss part will be thrown away.
I should improve the arithmetic a bit and mention one BIG caveat.golfcart said:
First, the arithmetic: usable for the '40 kWh model LEAF' is ~ 2 kWh less than rated and warranty kicks in at (we think) 63% so 40*0.63 - 2 = 23.2 kWh minimum for whichever comes first of 8 years or 100k miles.
The caveat is that Nissan reserved the option to change the loss of the 9th bar to any arbitrary percent SoC whenever they wish.
That "dude" appears to have been a woman. Her case is certainly interesting, but it's the only one indicating that the 40kwh pack resists degrading well. Unfortunately there is another possible reason for her stats: repeated QC sessions seem to inflate SOH statistics for many Leafs. There is no evidence I know of that this inflation is permanent.
I haven't seen any such claims. I think you are confusing a BMS software patch that Nissan has issued for the 30kwh packs with an actual BMS reset. I have seen no evidence that a simple BMS reset causes any actual gain in SOH beyond the re-learning period.
