Gen 1 GM Volt Plug-In Hybrid (2011-2015)

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LTLFTcomposite said:
If pragmatists ruled the roost in the auto market there would be no Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Cadillac, Lincoln, Jaguar, etc.
Click to expand...
Considering that the best selling cars in the U.S have been the Camry and Accord for many years, and that the F-150 followed by several other pickups are the best selling LDVs, I'd say that pragmatists do indeed 'rule the roost' in the auto market. That some people have the money and willingness to be less pragmatic doesn't change that.
 
GRA said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
If pragmatists ruled the roost in the auto market there would be no Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Cadillac, Lincoln, Jaguar, etc.
Click to expand...
Considering that the best selling cars in the U.S have been the Camry and Accord for many years, and that the F-150 followed by several other pickups are the best selling LDVs, I'd say that pragmatists do indeed 'rule the roost' in the auto market. That some people have the money and willingness to be less pragmatic doesn't change that.
Click to expand...
Well, there it is!
 
GRA said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
If pragmatists ruled the roost in the auto market there would be no Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Cadillac, Lincoln, Jaguar, etc.
Click to expand...
Considering that the best selling cars in the U.S have been the Camry and Accord for many years, and that the F-150 followed by several other pickups are the best selling LDVs, I'd say that pragmatists do indeed 'rule the roost' in the auto market. That some people have the money and willingness to be less pragmatic doesn't change that.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. There were 11 individual models that outsold entire BMW lineup last month.

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html#autosalesC" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Not saying anything many of us haven't been saying for quite some time, but at least it's got some academic chops. Via GCC:

"Study suggests OEMs should use a modular design for PHEV and EREV vehicle battery packs to offer capacity choices to customers"

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/09/20140902-redelbach.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
David Noland at GCR, on his three years as a Volt owner:

"Life With Chevy Volt: 3 Years & 35,000 Miles Later, It's Over"

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1094260_life-with-chevy-volt-3-years-35000-miles-later-its-over" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A very positive review, and he's returning it off lease because he's got a Model S, and the SC network is now good enough in the NE to let him go where he needs to, his wife is a stick shift devotee (kindred spirit there; she drives a Mini Cooper) and his daughter is off to college and doesn't need a car.
 
GRA said:
David Noland at GCR, on his three years as a Volt owner:

"Life With Chevy Volt: 3 Years & 35,000 Miles Later, It's Over"

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1094260_life-with-chevy-volt-3-years-35000-miles-later-its-over" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A very positive review, and he's returning it off lease because he's got a Model S, and the SC network is now good enough in the NE to let him go where he needs to, his wife is a stick shift devotee (kindred spirit there; she drives a Mini Cooper) and his daughter is off to college and doesn't need a car.
Click to expand...

Another EV owner to have had the foresight to not buy a Leaf, right?
Please have pity on all of us who bought a Leaf. We're all just lemmings.
Luckily redemption will avail itself in 2017 with the Model E.

Just think, a little over two years ago instead of wasting $35K on Leaf,
we all could have bought a 1000 shares of TSLA and now be driving a MS
and still have 500 shares of TSLA. Was that short-sighted, or what?
 
="lorenfb"...Another EV owner to have had the foresight to not buy a Leaf, right?...
Click to expand...

Are you joking?

Did you really pay $35K for your LEAF net incentives?

Sounds like this guy had to pay ~$7k more to lease and fuel a Volt for three years, than it cost me to own my LEAF over the same period. Most of the difference of course, is the CA $5k rebate I received.

At least he had the foresight to lease, so he didn't get stuck with the depreciation hit that all Volt buyers got.

I was surprised by his report that the residual buyout for his lease was reduced drastically.

Does GM finance cut the residual for all Volt lessees?

To Buy Or Not?

The residual value of my Volt, which had an MSRP of $42,000, was about $26,000. That meant, according to the lease deal, that I had the option to buy it at that price.

But the economics of e-cars made that price way too high. Figure in the tax credit of $7,500, and the fact that Chevy had in the meantime lowered the Volt's base MSRP to $35,000, and I could buy a brand new 2014 Volt for a net $27,500.

Realizing this, the leasing company kept lowering its price to buy, eventually getting down to $19,000...
Click to expand...
 
lorenfb said:
Just think, a little over two years ago instead of wasting $35K on Leaf,
we all could have bought a 1000 shares of TSLA and now be driving a MS
and still have 500 shares of TSLA. Was that short-sighted, or what?
Click to expand...
you can't play could have would have or should have, either you had the insight and or cajones to buy the tesla stock or you didn't.
I wasn't wise enough to buy TSLA early on but I did lease a LEAF and while I discovered that the LEAF is inadequate for my applications I don't regret leasing one, in fact I may try to extend the lease until I can decide between getting a model x, another model s or a volt/elr.
 
edatoakrun said:
Does GM finance cut the residual for all Volt lessees?

[/quote

My '12 Volt lease ends in November and my buyout is $28k on a $42k purchase. Ally will not negotiate with me on any less. Therefore, it is going back. I can get a new '14 for low to mid $20s brand new.
Click to expand...
 
edatoakrun said:
I was surprised by his report that the residual buyout for his lease was reduced drastically.

Does GM finance cut the residual for all Volt lessees?

To Buy Or Not?

The residual value of my Volt, which had an MSRP of $42,000, was about $26,000. That meant, according to the lease deal, that I had the option to buy it at that price.

But the economics of e-cars made that price way too high. Figure in the tax credit of $7,500, and the fact that Chevy had in the meantime lowered the Volt's base MSRP to $35,000, and I could buy a brand new 2014 Volt for a net $27,500.

Realizing this, the leasing company kept lowering its price to buy, eventually getting down to $19,000...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

surprised by GM desperation in trying to fix what was an outrageous MSRP?? I actually fully expected it...
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
edatoakrun said:
I was surprised by his report that the residual buyout for his lease was reduced drastically.

Does GM finance cut the residual for all Volt lessees?

To Buy Or Not?

The residual value of my Volt, which had an MSRP of $42,000, was about $26,000. That meant, according to the lease deal, that I had the option to buy it at that price.

But the economics of e-cars made that price way too high. Figure in the tax credit of $7,500, and the fact that Chevy had in the meantime lowered the Volt's base MSRP to $35,000, and I could buy a brand new 2014 Volt for a net $27,500.

Realizing this, the leasing company kept lowering its price to buy, eventually getting down to $19,000...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

surprised by GM desperation in trying to fix what was an outrageous MSRP?? I actually fully expected it...
Click to expand...


All this is is an artifact of how U.S. Bank and Ally structure leases on the Volt. Instead of applying the $7,500 tax credit as a cap cost reduction, like NMAC does on the LEAF, U.S. Bank and Ally apply the tax credit to inflate the residual. Therefore, for nearly all Volt lessees, it makes absolutely no sense to buy the car at the end of the lease term. Occasionally, U.S. Bank will negotiate the residual price down, since they know they will never be able to sell the car for the inflated residual in the lease. However, there has been no indication that Ally is willing to negotiate at all.

Nothing nefarious going on, here. Just like the LEAF, the Volt has seen rapid price depreciation.
 
so how different are lease values here verses other cars?

an interesting question so asked my Sis (works at Ford) and it took her FOREVER to get an answer because it varies a lot but seems like the value of lease returns is lower than a comparable used car (despite the fact that a high number of used cars are lease returns or rental discards)

so a big drop in value is not really all that unusual
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
so how different are lease values here verses other cars?

an interesting question so asked my Sis (works at Ford) and it took her FOREVER to get an answer because it varies a lot but seems like the value of lease returns is lower than a comparable used car (despite the fact that a high number of used cars are lease returns or rental discards)

so a big drop in value is not really all that unusual
Click to expand...
I think I posted a link within the past month or so to an ievs? story about the LEAF having the worst depreciation of any car sold in the U.S. The Volt was slightly better, but IIRR still made the worst 10 list.
 
GRA said:
...I think I posted a link withing the past month or so to an ievs? story about the LEAF having the worst depreciation of any car sold in the U.S. The Volt was slightly better, but IIRR still made the worst 10 list.
Click to expand...

There have been many inaccurate stories RE BEV/PHEV depreciation, which you may have linked.

As I pointed out on the previous page, I have saved ~$7,000 by buying a LEAF rather than a Volt, ~40 months ago.

How much greater the total TCO has been on a 2011 Volt compared to a 2011 LEAF varies a great deal, depending on the incentives each buyer received, but I think it would be pretty hard to find a factual example where the TCO of buying a LEAF is significantly greater than a volt over 3+ years, and the great majority of cases the LEAF will have cost its owner thousands of dollars less.

All new cars depreciate rapidly.

The lowest TCO over time (much less than for a used Volt or any other ICEV/Hybrid/PHEV tar-burner) would be achieved by buying a 3-5 year old LEAF, and driving it for may years.

That's what I would do now, If I didn't already own a LEAF.
 
I don't appreciate the fact that Ally bank and US bank pockets the $7500 on a Volt lease instead of passing it onto the customer.

I think these govt rebates should be mandated that the benefits should be passed on directly to the customer. These rebates are meant to spur more adoption, and not necessarily to line the pockets of manufacturers or lending institutions.
 
mkjayakumar said:
I think these govt rebates should be mandated that the benefits should be passed on directly to the customer. These rebates are meant to spur more adoption, and not necessarily to line the pockets of manufacturers or lending institutions.
Click to expand...

They do spur adoption, in the sense that inflating the residual gives a nice, low, monthly payment for the lease. The payment on my Volt lease is 17% less than the payment on my LEAF lease (both are 3 year and 36,000 miles).

And the leasing companies will lose the tax credit, and then some, when they auction off the cars at the end of the lease term. They will never be able to sell the cars for anything close to the inflated residual.

The only time they will make money is if someone is willing to purchase the car at the end of the lease (and there's no negotiation to reduce the residual). But, that has to be an extremely rare occurrence.
 
http://www.autonews.com/article/20141028/OEM01/141029854/gm-says-next-chevy-volt-will-have-bigger-4-cylinder-engine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bigger engine, not smaller. Interesting, I was thinking they'd go the other way, although maybe this is the path to higher efficiency and lower NVH. Or could it be they are planning to turn the Volt into a performance model? Funny, people will make fun of the Volt all day long, but if gets a 0-60 time under five seconds all the sudden it will be a big deal.

Either way let's hope there's a bigger (kWh-wise) battery to go with it.

More details on the new model are supposed to be released shortly.
 
Not too surprising if it let's them use more off the shelf parts. Hopefully the new engine will be all aluminum unlike the current one.

Good to hear that they are moving more production to Detroit.

The real question is if they are going to increase or decrease the EV range and what other vehicles they are going to drop the Voltec drivetrain in to. A small-midsize CUV would sell like crazy if it had 40 mile EV range and 40 mpg.
 
drees said:
The real question is if they are going to increase or decrease the EV range and what other vehicles they are going to drop the Voltec drivetrain in to. A small-midsize CUV would sell like crazy if it had 40 mile EV range and 40 mpg.
Click to expand...
If you want to have a successful EV/PHEV program, start by basing it on the wildly popular segment with decent margins. There's an easy $6k additional pricing power in compact CUVs over small sedans, where shoppers are just looking for the cheapest possible ride. Not to mention CUVs get somewhat worse MPG than small sedans, so buyers would be easier to convince there is additional value there.
 
Here's a video by GM on the new drive train

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6R5JOoYT_s&feature=youtube_gdata" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - Video Tube for YouTube - Android

It says each cell contains 20% more charge but the cell count dropped from 288 to 192. If I've got my numbers right, that's only 80% of the old battery pack. Looks like two traction motors connected in series to provide better efficiency and up to 20% better acceleration. It's possible the increase in efficiency overcomes the drop in charge capacity. GM has stated that this Volt will be better in every way, so range should be better. It also has a new 1.5 liter Ecotec engined designed solely for hybrid operation, so probable Atkinson cycle ops is the big change. Physical size of the battery pack looks about the same so the speculation is the new Volt will still not have a 5th seat.
 

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