Your Driving Experience Blog!

[GaslessInSeattle]

The major snag I’ve noticed with the design of the Leaf’s climate control is that you can’t really be in control of it, it kind of has a mind of it’s own. While you can use it somewhat sparingly, it still consumes substantial quantities of energy unless you turn the climate control off, which also turns off all circulating fans.

Ah, so I'm not the only one struggling with this. :x Like you, in the past I've always de-fogged my front windshield by simply turning on the fan and redirecting the airflow through the defrost vents (without turning up the heat). I can't find any way to do this in the LEAF, which to me is a significant oversight. When it's cold and damp, we often need to clear a windshield with extra air movement - heat is not critical. And with the amount of energy consumed by the LEAF's resistive heater, it's a pretty big hit to turn on the heater just to clear the windshield.

Has anybody figured out any magic to de-fogging (not defrosting) the windshield on a cold morning without using the heater?

Part of my confusion is that I can't tell if the defrost uses only AC or heat as well some times. One trick I have found that has helped is drying out the car. over the summer it absorbed a lot of moisture. I cranked the CC up to 80 for a half an hour a couple of times and then vented the air, all while plugged in, seemed to help reduce residual moisture and reduce fogging.

also, check out this link, looks like our friends at EVSE upgrade are coming up with a possible fix: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=6751

 

[lpickup]

I’ve been using the I-5/405 lake Washington Loop to test the effect of whether on the range, tracking MPkW and temperature as the season’s change. Over the last several months I’m seeing a consistent trend, at 70 degrees I did the loop with 4 bars remaining (4.6 MPkW), at 50 degrees I returned with 3 bars (4.2 MPkW), at 39 degrees I returned with two bars (3.8 MPkW) and now at 28, I returned with 1 bar (3.4 MPkW).

How about your tire pressure? Are you keeping a close eye on that? I've been doing a lot of bike riding lately and have noticed my lap times on the route I ride increase as the cold weather has descended upon us, and then we had a warm week last week and I suddenly turned in some really fast laps! Granted, my mountain bike tires have a lot less air in them than a car, but I have become acutely aware of the dramatic effect air pressure can have when the temps drop.

 

[lpickup]

Like you, in the past I've always de-fogged my front windshield by simply turning on the fan and redirecting the airflow through the defrost vents (without turning up the heat).

I didn't realize this was the case on cars that had a separate "AC" button until my Beetle's AC compressor went on the blink (making a huge noise when it was on), but in most regular cars, when you redirect the vents to the windshield, it automatically turns on the AC, even though it doesn't necessarily turn on any indicator lights or otherwise let you know it's done that. I always thought you had to press the AC button to get AC.

So maybe the LEAF is just following this practice because simply running non-conditioned air over the windshield might have the opposite effect of what you are trying to accomplish.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Like you, in the past I've always de-fogged my front windshield by simply turning on the fan and redirecting the airflow through the defrost vents (without turning up the heat).

I didn't realize this was the case on cars that had a separate "AC" button until my Beetle's AC compressor went on the blink (making a huge noise when it was on), but in most regular cars, when you redirect the vents to the windshield, it automatically turns on the AC, even though it doesn't necessarily turn on any indicator lights or otherwise let you know it's done that. I always thought you had to press the AC button to get AC.

So maybe the LEAF is just following this practice because simply running non-conditioned air over the windshield might have the opposite effect of what you are trying to accomplish.

That's a good point, though there are definitely times when just using the circulating fan is adequate. When the battery packs have doubled or tripled in range, then this kind of hair splitting won't be necessary, but until they do, having control of the heating and cooling helps reduce frustration, even if it's mainly psychological.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I’ve been using the I-5/405 lake Washington Loop to test the effect of whether on the range, tracking MPkW and temperature as the season’s change. Over the last several months I’m seeing a consistent trend, at 70 degrees I did the loop with 4 bars remaining (4.6 MPkW), at 50 degrees I returned with 3 bars (4.2 MPkW), at 39 degrees I returned with two bars (3.8 MPkW) and now at 28, I returned with 1 bar (3.4 MPkW).

How about your tire pressure? Are you keeping a close eye on that? I've been doing a lot of bike riding lately and have noticed my lap times on the route I ride increase as the cold weather has descended upon us, and then we had a warm week last week and I suddenly turned in some really fast laps! Granted, my mountain bike tires have a lot less air in them than a car, but I have become acutely aware of the dramatic effect air pressure can have when the temps drop.

hmm, haven't checked tire pressure but the car was just in for it's check up and it was presumably kept to spec.

 

[daggad]

Thanks for your posts Gaslessinseattle, as a soon to be Leaf driver it has been great reading your honest experiences.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

My November numbers are in. ending Mileage was 9,100, with a total of 1,550 miles for the month. Cost in electricity was $45, or 2.9 cents per mile. My charging events were more than double, at 163... reflecting increased anxiety as I learned to adapt to slower charging and struggles with the hungry climate control, having to use the ICE a few more times than usual due to limited range. The blink tells me it was the gas equivalent of 71.55 gallons (at 3.80 a gal that's a savings of roughly $226 over a similar gas car!) kWh used: 497.22, carbon not released 407.72 Lbs.

This last month was all about adjusting to the undeniable effect of colder whether and getting to know the climate control, pre-warming function and mode options on the dash in ways I just had not had to before now. The month started with a sort of grim sinking feeling that I had finally found the one major downside of electric cars, reduced range in the cold, but then the month ended on a surprise positive note.

For weeks I played tug of war with the defrost, which hits the windows, and me, with cold dry air, using minimal amounts of energy but requiring the use of the heater to warm the now cold air in the cabin. The heater is the most significant energy hog next to the traction motor itself. I kept thinking, my god, Nissan's engineers have seemingly thought of everything up till now, how could they have not solved the climate control issues that lead to major range decline, was this some bazaar oversight? I called up the EV hotline and dutifully gave feedback, hoping for some kind of an easy fix I had missed, but it seems that lots of people were calling in and the EV hotline folks were pretty stumped as well.

The challenges of using the climate control are a bit complex and hard to explain, you can turn it on without knowing it by doing a variety of things. For instance, simply hitting the up or down button on the circulating fan engages climate control, clicking on defrost engages it, hitting auto or actually using the climate control on off button. Normally you just wouldn't care so much in a gas car but climate control can use up as much as 4.5 kW's, which can put a good dent in one's range when it comes to driving an EV. I kept thinking, there must be decent thinking behind this design that I just need to discover, there must be a way to adapt!

With all the machinations and perseverations, I just kind of gave in and preheated the car and left the climate control set to 68 and toggled the defrost button... and my MPkW's went down to 3.3, an all time low, still higher than the EPA's 2.9 average, but disappointing compared to my lifetime average so far of 4.3. then I ran across a post by Evnow, "Keep your car defogged without using your heater" http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6987. this one tip has put wind back in my sails and appears to offer a mostly doable solution to this struggle. I have no excuse for not having discovered this, but it's remarkably simple. Using the mode button, unlike most of the other buttons, does not engage climate control. putting it in the feet and defog setting, even though the defog button engages climate control, the defog setting of the mode setting does not engage power defog, doesn't turn on the fan, heater or air conditioner. I probably sound a bit obsessed in belaboring this point, but by choosing this mode, you allow air to be pushed in from driving the car and the windows stay remarkably clear, at least when on the highway, no cold draft forcing you to turn on the heater. this solution doesn't work so well in stop and go traffic but I can live with that. With a good preconditioning the heat stays in the car for at least a half an hour even when outside temps are in the 30's, much better than when being forced to use defrost. With a 50 mile trip yesterday, my MPkW shot up from 3.3 to over 4 MPkW. Today I even got back up to 4.6 for a bit!

On most days it won't matter, I can use the heater and defrost and be plenty comfortable and not worry about how much electricity it is using because I have plenty for the driving I typically do, but I am very pleased to know that if I had to, I could stretch the range out and, when asked that nearly universal question of how far the car can go on a single charge, I don't have to say oh, on a bad day in the winter, it's looking like about 45 miles. the minimum range is what is going to be focused on because that will define the commute limit for people in cold climates. I'm optimistic to see how I can do on the 405/I5 loop on the next cold night. At this point, I'm guessing somewhere between 50 and 60 miles to be the maximum comfortable commute range in bad whether in the middle of winter without having to do additional charging and probably with some cushion to spare.

So I don't have an answer yet for folks wondering what the minimum range is for the northwest on the coldest day in the winter with our hills. I will report back on my experience as the winter continues on.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I appears that I have resolved the cold whether range issue to my liking, at least for now. I've been consistently getting about 4.2 to 4.3 MPkW, bringing my range back into a manageable level, up from the dismal 3.3 I was getting a few weeks ago. It appears that if you don't employ changes in driving and climate control that you can see a 50% drop in range with cold whether compared to summer time. my routine for longish trips is, preheating for a half an hour (no fog since I dried out the car), turned CC off (no fan/heater/AC) zero draw, mode set to foot/defog. Windows stay crystal clear at moderate and above speeds. The cabin retains more heat this way, for up to 45 minutes of driving compared to auto. I never use recirculate, always set to fresh air to help keep the air from getting too humid and increasing fogging.

For the folks who are getting in a pinch and need to squeeze out every mile to get home on their commutes while still being able to clearly see out the windshield, this is a comfortable doable solution, at least in the 30 degree range. We'll see how it works when it drops into the teens... heating the garage may be necessary to max out the range. charging just prior to driving heats up the battery which presumably should help the range as well.

I'm planning on a trip to Olympia, about 75 miles and will report back on how that went, wish me luck!

 

[walter]

I have had my Leaf for about a week now, and enjoy every minute I'm behind the wheel. I log onto my car wings account even when the wife is out with the car. I check to see mileage left and charge time needed for when she returns. I am tempted to turn on the ventilation remotely to startle her :shock: Probably not a good idea............I am loving the fact that all the gas stations appear in my rear view mirror :lol: I went out with the car the other day and had more miles left to go than when I started....try that with gas

 

[BrainDonor]

Gasless, I agree with the earlier poster. You have an excellent, easy-to-read writing style and should consider writing a permanent blog, similar to Boomer23 (including pictures). As a new LEAF owner I thoroughly enjoyed reading about your experiences. I'm also constantly amazed at the cost savings compared to my ICE car, in the neighborhood of $200/month. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts...

P.S.: Regarding your comment about being 6'3", I'm 6'6" and have absolutely no problems in either the front or back seats. At a recent car show I checked out the new diesel Passat and had major issues with my right knee hitting both the center console and the steering wheel column. Goes to show how spacious the LEAF actually is!

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Well, things have settled down considerably in the adjusting to winter EV driving department. Today I turned 11,000 miles on the odometer and for some reason the number excites me more than reaching 10,000, maybe because I feel over the winter adjustment hump (or was that a "slump"?). The reality of being able to do most of my traveling without using a single drop of gasoline just keeps sinking in on deeper and deeper levels, it’s really still just as amazing as it was the first time I drove the car!

I've still been averaging in the lower 4's for MPkWh's. Last month, after regaining my composure, I did venture a trip down to Olympia as I had an invitation to be the 6th person in the state to use the DOT's private EATON DC Quick charger. Honestly I was blown away. I've read up on what to expect and still, it was amazing to watch the car charge up so fast, doing in a half an hour what normally takes about 4 hours! I went by the Seattle Center Nissan event also, to do another quick charge. It's addictive! Aside from being generally wowed by the EV experience, I have to say, the quick charging capability of this car is perhaps the most amazing feature of the car and hardly anyone's gotten to use it yet in the US. It barely changed the temperature of the battery to add some 20 killowats of electricity. Everything I've ever known about rechargeable batteries is now up for grabs.

I am absolutely convinced that getting more L3 quick chargers out in the wild is what is going to launch this car and this technology forward into mass adoption. It is very exciting to see a map of the network that will largely be in place by summer of this year, if reports are correct. We’ll be planning a trip or two to Portland and Vancouver BC, just because we can!!! Here is a map showing approximate positions of the DC quick charging network through WA and OR, check it out! http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=213359050108102131982.0004b4a3f0c64a8fa421a&msa=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My prediction is that when this network is in place, that there is going to be a run on these cars in the region and they will be in short supply, maybe I’m dreaming, we’ll see. The Leaf and the i-mieve are the only EV’s on the market that will be able to take advantage of quick charging network. This is surely going to put a lot of pressure on other manufacturers to go with the CHAdeMO quick charging port, hopefully tipping the scales toward a single fast charging standard… something the industry sorely needs, and fast!! Again, from my limited experience, being able to nearly double the cars range with just a half an hour charge is going to make this car much more appealing to a much wider group of potential buyers.

My numbers for December were:
Ending odometer reading was 10,377, making it 1,237 gas free miles for the month, at a cost of $36.08 in electricity or 2.9 cents a mile. The Blink tells me that’s an equivalent of 57.31 gallons of gas and going off of our local Chevron I would have paid around $3.75 per gallon, costing me about $214, for a savings of about $178 for just one month… this seriously blows away any hybrid ROI (return on investment). I used 398 Kilowatts, higher than the summer due to all the preheating, but still kicks butt over an ICE in overall efficiency.

I’ve continued perfecting my cold whether charging/driving protocol and found that it’s possible to maintain a level of efficiency remarkably close to the summer. I’ve been hoping for winters return to test this in colder whether and it looks like that may just happen. As it’s getting colder again, I’m finding if I have not driven the car for a day, it takes much longer to prewarm to the point where it then begins charging the battery. I’ve had to prewarm, then charge to top off, then add a little more prewarm, to get the maximum range and warmth without using climate control while driving. Not using climate control while driving sounds like a hardship, but a good prewarming makes it unnecessary. My regiment has been charging to 80% the night before, prewarming for 30-60 minutes in the morning, setting mode to foot/defog and clicking the on/off button till the screen confirms “climate control off” before driving. I’ve been seeing the battery temp gauge go from 4 to 5 bars after a good preheat. We can’t see the actual temp of the battery, so it’s hard to know what effect this is really having, but I’ve assumed that warming the battery while charging increases the amount of energy the battery can hold overall, or at least the amount of range I have access to, assuming I drive while the battery is still warm. Today, I decided to go out for a spin around the lake and got the bright idea to block the foot vent on the drivers side and this made my feet much more comfortable. I went 58.9 miles and stayed warm from the prewarm throughout the drive even thought it was 32F out, averaging 4 MPkWh, returning home with 3 bars/21 miles on the Guess-o-meter… very close to what I achieved in the summer. Also, I was at Fred Meyer the other day and noticed a “Dr Scholl’s” Seat warmer on sale for about $25 and thought, what the heck, lets give it a try. It plugs into the 12V outlet under the stereo and uses an imperceptible amount of energy according to the energy screen and produces a remarkable amount of heat! Since I’ve plugged it in, I’ve just left in on. It turns off when the car is turned off, so it’s hassle free once installed, I don’t even think about it and it is by far the most efficient way to stay warm. I am envious of the newer Leaf's that have heated seats and steering wheel!

That's it for my December update, still very happy with the car!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

you got to use the QC?? how did you swing that one??

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

The numbers for the month of January are in. Ending Odometer reading was 11,480, making it 1,103 miles for the month. My cost from the meter was $38.22 for electricity, making my average for the month 3.4 cents a mile.

This month I preheated extensively, using up more electricity per mile than normal. I was still in the proving stage of trying to determine if I could warm the car enough while plugged in to extend the range under various driving demands and conditions. I really wanted to determine if warming the battery would help range and if getting the car warm enough before unplugging it would consistently allow me to eliminate climate control use while driving. My conclusion is that it is possible to use preheating for at least a half an hour and even to the point of topping off the battery from 80 to 100% (it charges while it preheats), which can take over an hour, to extend the range, at least at the relatively moderate cold temperatures we have here in the north west. I found that I could preheat and warm the core of the car up, then turn climate control off after unplugging the car and conserve the heat for at least a half an hour of driving (the distance of the average 30 mile commute). For February I will only preheat heavily when I really need to, so my cost per mile will likely drop back in the 2 cent range. Either way though, the cost of driving electric is so much less expensive and more efficient that even if I had to preheat extensively every day during the winter, it would still be well worth owning the car.

We have been playing around with the idea of replacing our old messed up, drafty garage door with a R13 weather resistant, more sealed door that should conserve heat both in our garage and in our house. The garage is built into the house directly under the master bedroom and a lot of heat is lost from the house to it, making the floor of the bedroom quite cold and the garage not much above outside temperature. I am now convinced that a little extra investment in a good garage door will pay off in both lower heating bills for the house and have the side benefit of keeping the car warmer, which helps it charge faster, hold more of a charge and go further with that charge. While I don’t have a lot of solid scientific information to quantify my observations, I am pretty convinced that around 45 to 50 degrees is the magic temperature range for the leaf. Preheating to get the battery to 45 – 50 (five temperature bars) or keeping the garage at 45- 50 degrees appears to have the potential to substantially improve both the capacity of the battery and the efficiency of the whole system. My target will be to insulate the garage enough to maintain 50 degrees if possible. Having the car drop into the 20’s was not a big deal, but there is added challenge to keeping the car warm and apparent loss of some range the more extreme the cold gets. I believe that Nissan needs to improve the cold whether protocol for the Leaf, as it does seem the prewarming function has the ability to compensate somewhat for the loss of range due to cold, if only owners were instructed as to how to use it effectively. It seems logical that if Nissan went a step further and used a battery warmer that warmed the battery to above 50 degrees internally during the prewarming phase and maybe even toward the end of any charge event in cold whether, that it would boost winter time range by optimizing the charge the battery takes up and improving driving efficiency, ultimately retaining much of the range the car has in the summer and reducing winter time range anxiety for owners.

I was impressed that I was able to maintain a range of around 80 miles this winter, not including the extra range below the very low battery warning. Since the minimum winter time range in a given area is going to be the likely commute limit that someone would likely get the car for, I was very interested in nailing down a range that I could be confident in telling someone considering the car for their commute. In this climate, I think it’s reasonable for someone with a 60 mile round trip commute to get this car, as long as they are willing to prewarm the car and learn how to drive it somewhat conservatively during cold snaps. If someone is willing to do a few extra simple steps before driving and perfect efficiency skills, it’s quite doable to get at least 70 miles even in the 20’s, but it takes some doing at moderate highway speeds. The very worst case scenario of driving with no care for climate control use or efficiency would be around 45 miles. If people ask how long a commute they can reasonably to expect the car to be good for, I’ll be giving a range. I’ll be saying well, if you really don’t make any effort to conserve, then 45 miles between charges or 90 miles round trip if you can charge with 240V at work and if you are willing to work for it, you can go up to 70 miles reliably between charges or 140 round trip if you can charge at work. For summer time, 80-100 miles in between charges is quite doable.

Of course we are all waiting with baited breathe for the DC quick charging network to be rolled out, which should be coming on line in phases any day now. I hope that for March’s update, that I will be able to report that the network is open for business and that it is revolutionizing what I can do with the car! Certainly a DC quick charging network will be helpful for winter time driving, allowing for more liberal use of the cars heater.

Oh, and before I forget, we had a chance to see how the car handled snow. it snowed 8 inches here in shoreline and so we threw on some chains and took it out to see how it handled. I was very impressed with how it handled in the snow. the low center of gravity made it handle well and of course the front wheel drive is good for snow.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

We had our taxes done early this year and received the full $7,500 tax credit for the Leaf. The tax credit was very important to us, as it was a bit of an insurance policy to us for taking the risk and buying the first production year of this new electric technology. We knew that if there was something we really didn’t like about the 2011 Leaf that conceivably we could trade up without taking as much of a financial bath because of the tax credit. After thinking it over a bit, reflecting on how frustrating it had been so far to get through the winter without the cold whether package and how likely it was that the 2011 model without the cold whether package would likely continue down a steep depreciation curve, we decided to cut our losses and pull into the dealer one day to see what they’d give us for a trade in toward a 2012 SL. After substantial haggling, we came to a number we could live with, relatively close to what similar packages have been selling for used. It turned out, hidden in the back behind other cars, they happened to have an Orphan the same color with all the amenities. After some more haggling, we got the price down to MSRP and drove the car home that day.

I have to say that now that I’ve got almost a thousand miles on our 2012 Leaf compared to the 12,000 we put on our 2011, that we’ve concluded that all EV’s should have heated seats and steering wheels accept for maybe near tropical environments like southern California and Florida and parts of the south that do not dip below 40 degrees F at night. Since people move around and cars bought in one area often get resold in another area, it now makes perfect sense that heated seats and steering wheel are now standard! I now do not bother preheating extensively if at all. The heated seats and steering wheel take no perceptible added energy according to the energy consumption screen and dramatically improve comfort, they even seem to warm the cabin some. The heated seats and steering wheel allow me to virtually forget about the climate control and just leave it off. The car is substantially more functional for us now that comfort and range loss are not such a tug of war. There is still some work to be done by Nissan to allow the driver to control the circulating fan independently of climate control, but this is now a minor issue compared to what it had been.

So far, we are very pleased with the 2012. Like many others, we are eagerly awaiting the DC Quick Charging network that keeps getting delayed. Whether this car gains adoption by more mainstream drivers or not, is going to hinge not as much on bigger batteries but on an adequate quick charging network. The slower chargers that are cropping up all over the place are somewhat worthwhile, but mostly only for long term parking, not so much for short shopping trips. I suspect that the experiment that is the EV project will reveal over time that slow charging is only valuable when carefully and strategically placed. Slow charging will likely continue to be most popular in the home and work place, whereas quick charging will become well utilized in the public arena.