Why not a fossil fuel heater for the Leaf or BEV's?

[Herm]

Then why actively cool the motor/inverter at all? Even at 90% efficient you have to be shedding heat somewhere... only question is how much.
=Smidge=

To handle worst case scenarios, track racing in Death Valley/using L3 chargers to keep going all day. The permanent magnets used in the motor will demagnetize at high temperatures (google "curie point"), the grease will boil out of the sealed bearings etc.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I like the Canadian propane model the best, because you can buy those little propane bottles anywhere (Walmart, Target, even grocery stores).

Now, how do we get heat down to the battery?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

no it doesn't do anything in a while you are driving

Then why actively cool the motor/inverter at all? Even at 90% efficient you have to be shedding heat somewhere... only question is how much.
=Smidge=

maybe i am wrong. but Nissan stated there was no active cooling. iow, no water cooled options when discharging. only have water cooling when charging. if this is not correct, then a huge part of this forums discussions last summer were for naught.

but at the same time, we already know that this cooling system uses power as deomstrated by the difference in charging efficiencies between 120 and 240 where there should be none other than the time it takes to charge which implies the difference is the active cooling process.

this power is not a lot. difference between 120 and 240 is 8-10 % depending on current (i average a rock steady 83.3% efficiency with the 240 volt 12 amp EVSE mod) with 75% the normal # reported here on the 120 charge.

can this power be effectively used? is it running when the car is running? i think not. i have never heard it run when its easy to hear when plugged in and stationary. its not like the car makes noise that would mask this sound when its moving

 

[Smidge204]

maybe i am wrong. but Nissan stated there was no active cooling.

There is no active cooling of the battery pack. There absolutely is a liquid cooling system that runs through the on-board charger, DC-DC converter, main drive inverter, traction motor and finally a radiator. In that order. (See pages HCO-5, HCO-6 of the service manual)

Maybe you don't hear it running because it's harder to hear from inside the vehicle and/or noise from traffic and road?
=Smidge=

 

[jimtubbs]

Has anyone checked the RM4 electric car heater as an addition heater? Jim Tubbs

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

maybe i am wrong. but Nissan stated there was no active cooling.

There is no active cooling of the battery pack. There absolutely is a liquid cooling system that runs through the on-board charger, DC-DC converter, main drive inverter, traction motor and finally a radiator. In that order. (See pages HCO-5, HCO-6 of the service manual)

Maybe you don't hear it running because it's harder to hear from inside the vehicle and/or noise from traffic and road?
=Smidge=

i am not hearing it most likely because it is not needed. its winter. i tried driving around today. did a 20 mile run on the freeway at 65 mph. got off and immediately popped the hood. there is nothing going on there. which means tapping it for heat might not work.

as far as what it sounds like. i hear it every day when its plugged in.

 

[Herm]

Has anyone checked the RM4 electric car heater as an addition heater? Jim Tubbs

Its similar to what the Leaf is using now, so you mean to double the heating power at the expense of range?

 

[jimtubbs]

No but to expand the amount of fluid and an additional boost of heat especially if you preheat. Jim Tubbs

 

[Herm]

No but to expand the amount of fluid and an additional boost of heat especially if you preheat. Jim Tubbs

Good idea!, you could have an insulated container holding about 5 extra gallons of antifreeze solution and a 120V heater. You probably would need a pump to drive it.

How about a heated motorcycle vest, and just plug it in when you get in the Leaf?.. this one has 3 independently controlled zones:

http://www.amazon.com/Venture-Three-Zone-Heated-Vest/dp/B004BBMG6K/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1319768927&sr=8-3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[edatoakrun]

No but to expand the amount of fluid and an additional boost of heat especially if you preheat. Jim Tubbs

Good idea!, you could have an insulated container holding about 5 extra gallons of antifreeze solution and a 120V heater. You probably would need a pump to drive it...

How about just putting a larger, insulated tank, in line with the stock heatant tank?

That would probably be a cheap mod.

But, as I figure it, you'd only get about 1 KWH worth of heat storage, for 5 gallons of heatant, if heated 80 degrees F above ambient. So, somewhat heavier (but far cheaper) than battery storage. Of course, you'd get 1.5 kWh equivalent storage if you pre-heated by 120 degrees F.

How hot is the LEAFs system set to pre-heat to?


8:30 pst Edit-

Just took a look under the hood. Not as much room there, as I remembered.

Looks to me like the only likely large tank space is at the 12 V battery location.

Whatever happened with those plans some of you had, to replace the 12 V battery, with a smaller unit?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Whatever happened with those plans some of you had, to replace the 12 V battery, with a smaller unit?

I thought everybody either thought it was not fiscally responsible, or that lead/acid didn't matter.

I'm not thinking that the charger needs to be up there, and make room behind the seats for my extra battery pack. Not sure where the parking brake capacitors would go.

 

[scottf200]

Anyone show precond (heat/cool) kW on their TED5000?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6671" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[SteveInSeattle]

Like the plate, Scott

 

[CWO4Mann]

In Norway it is quite common to install Webasto and similar heaters in electric cars for winter use.
My hope was that the Leaf with is preheating would not need this. I live in an area where temps during winter is rarely below 20F, and my commute is not very long.

When I was stationed in Germany last time (1980-1985) I bought a Jetta Diesel 4D with "Standheizung" -- a Webasto heater. Very sophisticated. I could set the timer to turn it on at 0300 hours and by the time I was at the car to drive to the Kaserne at 0345 it was toasty inside and the engine needed no pre-heat at all. All in all a very handy item. The dealer (Autohaus W. vonHoff in Bad Kreuznach) told me that he had a similar heater in his big VW sedan (Europe only) which ran on "Autogas" or Propane, as do many cars in Germany. When I traded the car in in Arlington VA, the Mercedes dealer there told me they would probably sell it "up north" someplace. I recommend one if you can figure out how to install it. One word of caution though, you have to keep the window opened a little as there is a potential CO hazard plus the system is way overengineered for a small car. It would blast me out in no time at all when on full and that was in Berlin and 10 below zero.

 

[CWO4Mann]

The worst heaters in the world are the petrol burning Janitrol heaters in airplanes.

No thanks.

I am not talking about the heater in a 1954 Apache! I am talking about a modern, highly efficient heater that could greatly increase the cold weather range of a BEV like a Leaf in cold, winter seasons.

Or my old Cessna 140 ... which had an Army surplus Jeep heater installed by the previous owner -- ran on pure avgas. Ah, the old days ...

 

[Electric4Me]

How about a low tech solution?

 

[scottf200]

How about a low tech solution?

Because the masses will think it is a step backward and will rebel. People want to be comfortable not watching kWs trickle by.

 

[Smidge204]

...and because that doesn't help keep the windows clear. Defog/Deice is an important reason to heat the cabin at least partially.

=Smidge=

 

[wishboneash]

How about a heating pad (12V, <50W) that one can put under drivers seat or attach to right side of the floor area next to the feet. The rising heat should keep the driver comfortable and use up negligible battery resources compared to using the Leaf's climate control system. I may try this - raising the temp a few degrees should be enough. Pre-heating takes care of most of the heating issues (at least so far here in Northern California).