Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

[GRA]

Possibly. But it is also reversed in that it is the EV with the 'limited functionality', which would have previosuly been the characteristic of that 'second car' sports convertible, or whathaveyou.

The shift with EVs is that they are designed to perform the greater number of commuter miles, albeit within the 'limited functionality'. I think people might still think of the EV as 'a second car', for the functionality reason rather than the mileage reason.

I don't see it that way. My ICE gets used at most once a month. Even though it (K2500 Suburban) has far more functionality, I can't see calling it my primary. I think it goes by which you get the most use from - which the Leaf wins hands down.

I'm going along with Donald here. A 'first' car is the universal car, the one you'll keep if you are restricted to one. Even if the second or subsequent cars are used more often, if they are restricted to niche vehicles they aren't 'first' cars. For example, when I owned my Datsun 2000 Roadster, I drove it most of the time and it was my primary car, not my first car. The '65 Impala was my first (literally), secondary but universal car even though I used the Impala much less, because it could haul people and gear that the 2000 couldn't (I was a scoutmaster at the time) and could be used in road and weather conditions that the 2000 couldn't handle.

So, even though the 2000 was far more fun to drive, more economical and easier to park, if push had come to shove it would have gone bye-bye and I would have kept the Chevy, because the Chevy could be used without a thought and the Datsun couldn't. I ultimately replaced that two-car combination with my first Subaru wagon, re-combining first and primary cars.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I agree with evnow and TickTock. Whenever I've had two cars the one I use most, in trips and miles, was the primary. For the last couple of years that's been the LEAF. It seems downright bizarre to me to try to twist it any other way.

Is this the EV version of arguing about "the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin"?

 

[Zythryn]

I agree with evnow and TickTock. Whenever I've had two cars the one I use most, in trips and miles, was the primary. For the last couple of years that's been the LEAF. It seems downright bizarre to me to try to twist it any other way.

Is this the EV version of arguing about "the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin"?

No, I don't think so. It is just using a completely different definition.
If I have a pickup truck that I use to haul stuff once a year, it is my second vehicle even though it has a capability my car doesn't.
My first and primary vehicle would be the car I drive the other 99.6% of the time.

 

[KJD]

This week I have put more miles on the mountain bike than I have the LEAF, so I guess the mountain bike is my primary vehicle. I like that actually.

As far as why Volt sales are down, could it be that GM setting records with number of recalled vehicles is a bad thing for Volt sales ?

 

[pkulak]

It is interesting though that GM incrementally improves the Volt's range while Nissan does essentially nothing for the Leaf...

Yeah, but electric range isn't the issue with the Volt that needs to be addressed. If, for 2016, the Volt get's a lot more interior room and the Leaf gets a lot more range, then we are going to have two seriously compelling vehicles!

 

[dgpcolorado]

This week I have put more miles on the mountain bike than I have the LEAF, so I guess the mountain bike is my primary vehicle. I like that actually...

I bicycle commuted for 20 years, 43,000 miles worth. Lots of snow, rain, lightning, and freezing weather (my personal "best" was -4ºF). On weekdays my bicycle was my only vehicle.

 

[Zythryn]

This week I have put more miles on the mountain bike than I have the LEAF, so I guess the mountain bike is my primary vehicle. I like that actually.

As far as why Volt sales are down, could it be that GM setting records with number of recalled vehicles is a bad thing for Volt sales ?

I don't think so. Company wide, GM sales are up. The Volt is one of the few models not named in a recall (afaik).
No, I think it is the total lack of marketing and the hostile dealers.
I have met very few Nissan dealers that are outright hostile towards the Leaf, there are quite a few Chevy dealers like that.

 

[alcalira]

I take a lot of 50 - 75 mile trips in my LEAF in areas where QC is widely available. With a Volt I'd have to burn gas on each of those trips (or spend lots of time recharging at L2); with the LEAF I burn no gas and use the QC once for a 150 mile round trip. I think people are starting to realize that PHEVs are an interim technology; as BEV range improves with technological advances the need to have a ICE on board diminishes.

It's sad but true that GM is far more devoted to its high-profit vehicles like ICE trucks and SUVs than to the Volt or the Spark. That devotion rubs off on the dealers. Money talks. The 2015 Cadillac Escalade costs around $80K but is based on the Chevy Tahoe--gotta be much profit in that one!

 

[evnow]

Possibly. But it is also reversed in that it is the EV with the 'limited functionality', which would have previosuly been the characteristic of that 'second car' sports convertible, or whathaveyou.

The definition of "functionality" has changed a bit too. Zero Emission (or low cents/mile) is a functionality which the ICE lacks or lags in.

If we look at another example - take the example of "primary residence". It is the one you live most of the time in - as defined by IRS. It is not the one you use a few weeks every year during off time.

 

[donald]

My suggestion of a 'first secondary', and 'second primary' car was said with half-jest / half-pedantry as a way to unpick the philology of these words... basically, I don't think it matters one iota, though some EV enthusiasts do seem to take umbrage when others regard EVs as 'second' cars. I wouldn't worry about what people call them, so long as they use them!

 

[TimLee]

The conflicting things people mean by "first" and "second" car is an interesting example of bad communication.
Bit like the complete lack of communication when someone says move a date forwatd.
On that one it is a near 50 / 50 split on how people interpret it. Half see forward as an earlier date. Half see forward as a later date.
That is why forward should never be used when communicating rescheduling of a date.
Maybe we should use the same approach and just stop referring to vehicles as first and second since it is clearly not resulting in accurate communication?

 

[MrIanB]

Price and horrible advertising by GM as if they don't want the car to succeed. In the meantime, they r throwing millions to sell pick ups. Old habits r hard to break and will end up getting them bailed out again.

Ian B

 

[evnow]

...basically, I don't think it matters one iota, though some EV enthusiasts do seem to take umbrage when others regard EVs as 'second' cars. I wouldn't worry about what people call them, so long as they use them!

Some of us don't like the "second car" tag - as popular press has used this expression to be dismissive about EVs. It is meant to discourage people from buying EVs.

 

[johnrhansen]

Cars are not a religion, they are just a way to get around. People should choose the vehicle that is right for them, and let others choose what they want. My leaf works great for me. I sometimes talk about it with some passion because I love my car, and they always reply back how the electric car would never work for them. I think to myself... so... your point is...I'm not trying to sell leafs. If electric cars don't work for you, don't buy one.

 

[palmermd]

Cars are not a religion, they are just a way to get around.

What? Blasphemy!

 

[TomT]

Sorry but I see no indication whatsoever that GM does not want the Volt to succeed!

Price and horrible advertising by GM as if they don't want the car to succeed.

 

[derkraut]

Cars are not a religion, they are just a way to get around. People should choose the vehicle that is right for them, and let others choose what they want. My leaf works great for me. I sometimes talk about it with some passion because I love my car, and they always reply back how the electric car would never work for them. I think to myself... so... your point is...I'm not trying to sell leafs. If electric cars don't work for you, don't buy one.

Well stated John. I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[gReGsKi]

Leaf = 100% electric, Volt does not

 

[evnow]

Cars are not a religion, they are just a way to get around.

Definitely not. Religion is way down in my list of priorities compared to cars (and more importantly climate change). YMMV.

 

[hill]

Cars are not a religion, they are just a way to get around. . . . . . . . snip . . . . . . .

"religion
re·li·gion
noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe ...."

Part of many folks "purpose" is their legacy. In that vein, if one leaves nothing for your heirs (like carbon fuel) - then they fail. Similarly, if folks exploit other country's weath of carbon fuel to the point they'd want to go to war against you (fly planes into buildings killing thousands) ... again, perhaps those folks may feel their personal beliefs concerning their purpose in the universe has been a fail - that is, if they don't take the best stance they can against victimizing others. Just a thought.

... not that I wana get all religious on anyone.