Why 200 miles??

[eloder]

Nissan sold us a 100-mile car goes 75 miles. GM will have a 200-mile car that goes 150.

+1 We need to ask for 200 in order to be reasonably sure of receiving 150. And that's when it's new. Then we'll also be reasonably confident that we'll get 100 miles 8-10 years down the road.

That's something that's almost unique to Leafs, of the current EV generations. Gen II smart EVs average 1-2% degradation a year, and Gen III smart ev's 10 year extended battery warranty program replaces any battery whose capacity falls under 88% after or during its 10 year duration (current Gen III smarts seem to be sticking to that 1-2% degradation a year mark). Active temperature control of the battery (not this cheap air-cooled stuff), and batteries + battery chemistry (usable v. actual charge) makes all the difference between a Leaf and the others out there.

 

[DanCar]

It seems to me a waste of money and rresources to dump huge dollars into a investment that wears out simply by sitting there. If you aren't using the high range capabilities every day, then why toss an extra 10 grand into your car for something that does nothing but add weight to your car for 95 percent of the time. The leaf's range right now is perfect. All they need to do is sell an optional detachable 20 hp range extender engine tank combo that drives one or both of the rear wheels at highway speeds. Be a lot cheaper and lighter than adding all those batteries. And it would help to heat the cabin.

Agree, although it will need to be closer to 40 hp. And maybe someday the range extender can be battery powered.

 

[DanCar]

I drive between 100 and 150 miles daily during the week...

How much are you saving on gas?

 

[Deleted member 14724]

It seems to me a waste of money and rresources to dump huge dollars into a investment that wears out simply by sitting there. If you aren't using the high range capabilities every day, then why toss an extra 10 grand into your car for something that does nothing but add weight to your car for 95 percent of the time. The leaf's range right now is perfect. All they need to do is sell an optional detachable 20 hp range extender engine tank combo that drives one or both of the rear wheels at highway speeds. Be a lot cheaper and lighter than adding all those batteries. And it would help to heat the cabin.

Agree, although it will need to be closer to 40 hp. And maybe someday the range extender can be battery powered.

Why would you make the range extender use batteries, just like the car? Do you mean detachable batteries, kind of like having a charging case for an iPhone?

 

[DanCar]

Why would you make the range extender use batteries, just like the car? Do you mean detachable batteries, kind of like having a charging case for an iPhone?

Sure and the charging case can fit in the trunk or be in a trailer.

 

[caffeinekid]

I drive between 100 and 150 miles daily during the week...

How much are you saving on gas?

My Prius still gets ~ 46-50mpg. I pay about 1/4 (lately closer to 1/2) the cost of comparative miles in the Prius. Now, had I gone straight from an X3 or something, the numbers would be more awe-inspiring.

 

[camasleaf]

Why would you make the range extender use batteries, just like the car? Do you mean detachable batteries, kind of like having a charging case for an iPhone?

Sure and the charging case can fit in the trunk or be in a trailer.

I want a battery system/trailer that you can rent and gives you access to Tesla superchargers. Still, for a few trips a year I would not mind an ICE range extender.

 

[desiv]

Personally, if I'm going to rent something for needed range..
It'll probably be a full car, not some trailer or something that takes up trunk space (and adds weight) to the Leaf.

desiv

 

[GRA]

Personally, if I'm going to rent something for needed range..
It'll probably be a full car, not some trailer or something that takes up trunk space (and adds weight) to the Leaf.

desiv

More importantly, at least for people in California, no one is going to want to be using a trailer that restricts them to a 55 mph speed limit on the freeway, instead of 65 or 70. Not that many people drive 55 on a freeway while towing a trailer; on I-5 last year, the slowest vehicle I paced (a semi) was doing 59, and it was hauling U.S. mail so probably had a transponder. The rest were doing 62-64, with a few owner-operators as high as 67. Most cars were doing their usual 74-85 (70 mph speed limit).

 

[DanCar]

Personally, if I'm going to rent something for needed range..
It'll probably be a full car, not some trailer or something that takes up trunk space (and adds weight) to the Leaf.

The assumption is that it costs less to rent a range extending trailer than to rent a car. Also a trailor has the added convenience that you don't have to transfer you belongings from one car to another and then forget to transfer them back, like a camera. Ideally the trailer would have extra space for holding luggage.

 

[evnow]

Why would anyone need more than 64 MB of RAM ?

 

[knightmb]

Personally, if I'm going to rent something for needed range..
It'll probably be a full car, not some trailer or something that takes up trunk space (and adds weight) to the Leaf.

The assumption is that it costs less to rent a range extending trailer than to rent a car. Also a trailor has the added convenience that you don't have to transfer you belongings from one car to another and then forget to transfer them back, like a camera. Ideally the trailer would have extra space for holding luggage.

I've been looking into something similar, basically put a trailer hitch on the back of a Leaf, attach a hitch rack, get a 3 to 4kW generator, and use a DC to DC tie in converter and the generator can feed in additional power as it is driven. Basically the battery pack would have an extra 3 or 4 kW of extra energy usage taken off while driving.

 

[knightmb]

Why would anyone need more than 64 MB of RAM ?

I remember when it was 640K of RAM was it (DOS) and why would you need more?

 

[smkettner]

200? It is just a number but would take it in a heart beat. Will say the 50% additional range of RAV4-EV makes a huge difference for my usability.

 

[kaikara]

200? It is just a number but would take it in a heart beat. Will say the 50% additional range of RAV4-EV makes a huge difference for my usability.

People who say we don't need 200 miles of range need to qualify their statements to say they don't need 200 miles of range. If I was tooling around sunny California or another southern state then 85 miles of range might be enough but in a colder climate that 85 miles can turn to 65 or 55 miles pretty quickly and that is on a new car that doesn't have 5 years of battery degradation. I want my next EV to be a purchase that I keep for the long term and for me that means at minimum 150 to 200 miles of range. The best solution is to offer two battery sizes where you can choose to pay more for the larger size if you want it.

 

[adric22]

There's easy more than just the physics and personal needs of drivers. A lot of it is psychological marketing.

Just like we all know there's no difference to us when we need something at the store and see 2 competing products that fit our needs, 1 at $199 and 1 at $201. The smart buyer will always pick the one that is best, a lot of us here that choose to learn about EVs and post on an ev forum will look beyond the number. However for the mass market it matters, the $199 product will sell more and be more appealing than the $201.

I don't think so. Not with cars. Time and again we've seen that people place far more of their buying decision for a car on the external appearance. So if there are two competing EVs and one has 180 mile range and the other has 200, I don't think there will be many people that buy based on that extra 20 miles.

I will, however, agree that the general buying public believes that they need a whole lot more range than they really do. I've literally heard people tell me 1,000 miles would still not be enough. And yet their gas car doesn't even come close to that. So 200 miles would definitely be a game changer from the perspective of the buying public. But anyone who is EV experienced will likely happily settle for anything over 120.

 

[apvbguy]

Why would you make the range extender use batteries, just like the car? Do you mean detachable batteries, kind of like having a charging case for an iPhone?

Sure and the charging case can fit in the trunk or be in a trailer.

I want a battery system/trailer that you can rent and gives you access to Tesla superchargers. Still, for a few trips a year I would not mind an ICE range extender.

the only way for you to access to the Tesla SC network at this time is to be a Tesla owner. Tesla has offered to allow other EV manufacturers access to the SC network for a fee, up to now not one has taken the offer.

 

[RegGuheert]

Why would anyone need more than 64 MB of RAM ?

I remember when it was 640K of RAM was it (DOS) and why would you need more?

+1

I agree this is essentially what the OP is asking.

I expect that 20 years from now we will all be quite amazed with the range and flexibility of run-of-the-mill BEVs.

 

[desiv]

The assumption is that it costs less to rent a range extending trailer than to rent a car.

Would be interesting to see. Car rentals can be pretty cheap...

Also a trailor has the added convenience that you don't have to transfer you belongings from one car to another and then forget to transfer them back, like a camera.

I don't think of trailers as convenient. Not a trailer person. ;-) And if we're talking for a trip, I have to transfer those belongings from my house anyway.. The only belongings that might get skipped are the ones I usually keep in the car, which isn't much..
I'm not saying it wouldn't be a great idea.
Just that I think there's a percentage of Leaf owners, like myself, who wouldn't want a trailer type option.
I don't even think I'd bother with a battery pack that goes in the trunk.

If the car had more range, great.
But if I "need" more than my car has, I'm not doing anything like that. I'm taking/borrowing/renting another car.

It's possible there will be enough people who would do that tho...

Right now, I drive a LOT. I charge frequently. And I expect, in 4 years (or so) to get an EV with much more range.

200 sounds good to me. I would REALLY REALLY like 150 (120 in the winter, etc). So 200 sounds like a good spot.

desiv

 

[mdjones]

I will, however, agree that the general buying public believes that they need a whole lot more range than they really do. I've literally heard people tell me 1,000 miles would still not be enough. And yet their gas car doesn't even come close to that. So 200 miles would definitely be a game changer from the perspective of the buying public. But anyone who is EV experienced will likely happily settle for anything over 120.

I will agree that the public believes they need more range than they do but there is a legitimate side to some of the banter from the ICE crowd. It would take just over 13 hours at 75mph to go a range of 1000 miles. This can be done. It's not pleasant but it can be done. I did nearly 900 miles in December 2013, diagonally across Pennsylvania and back (I live in the Pittsburgh area). Even in the Tesla it would have taken 2 charge stops of over an hour each assuming that the battery was at 100% health and you could hit a SC station in the right locations. I can't even imagine the amount of time it would have taken me in a Leaf. Even a 200 mile Leaf given the current issue of the battery in cold weather. So their concerns aren't 100% unfounded but they are a bit on the extreme end. My Subaru doesn't get 1000 miles a tank but it does "recharge" to a 400-some mile range in just a couple of minutes.

Sure, that's the longest single day of driving I've ever done. If I had an EV I could have just rented an ICE and been done with it but I think about stuff like this as I plan on owning a (hopefully) Leaf when they come out with something that will do better than 120 miles on a charge (I will be willing to pay a fair bit more up to a 200 mile range). I take at least a dozen 105 mile trips a year I'm having a hard time offsetting the cost of a rental to own a Leaf today not to mention a few road trips I'd like to do in the next couple of years. I've already booked for a trip up to Toronto for June and I'm considering trips to the Allegheny National Forest and Green Bank WV as well. I've been looking at the recharge maps and even if everything is in 100% working condition they'd still be tedious trips.

Disclaimer: As you can tell, I'm not a Leaf owner yet. I come around here because I consider the Nissan Leaf to be my best bet as far as getting into an EV anytime in the next couple of years and I like to see what people have to say about their experiences with their cars. So I hope no one takes offense but not every excuse an ICE driver makes for not owning an EV is based on a false perception. I find the desire to have at least a couple hundred miles of range to be reasonable.