Warning-watch out for radical anti-electric thinkers

[abasile]

Having L2s at places where you stop to eat, shop, walk, be a tourist or a customer is an excellent idea.

+1. Especially with a 6.6 kW charger, the amount of range that can be added is non-trivial. Even with our 3.3 kW charger, we've made very good use of public L2s. Both L2 and QC are beneficial.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Having been beat up by my fellow library board members when suggesting a charge station ("we don't provide a gas station for patrons!") I learned my lesson: make sure that charge stations aren't perceived as being "free".

When I proposed to the town that they install charge stations, or allow their existing outlets to be used for charging, I suggested that they issue a "charging pass". An annual pass might be at a fixed fee and a pass for a week or a day might even be free to encourage EV tourism (a big deal for the town). I suggested that it could be in the form of a hang tag like a handicapped parking permit. If they made it attractive enough it might even have souvenir value for EV visitors. The Town Council seemed quite receptive (as was the board of the local power co-op at a previous presentation).

The idea was to quash the "getting fuel for free" notion before it was even broached. I'd much rather pay a nominal fee and display my town charging pass than get attacked by the ignorant people who don't realize just how tiny the cost of charging for a few hours really is. After all, they think in terms of gasoline prices! While it might make sense for businesses to offer free charging as an incentive to attract customers, it is still likely to create ill-will among other customers, as the OP found in his encounter (in a very different part of this state).

I live in an area with zero charge stations, save for the one in my garage. I'd like to see public charging more for the opportunity to show people that EVs really exist and have utility, than to extend my range. If the idea caught on with other towns it might eventually allow for extended range travel around here, but that's a long ways off.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

The old cow's disposition can't have been improved by that POS Land Rover somebody sold her. A perennial cellar dweller in quality and reliability for a top shelf price tag. Ford couldn't fix the quality problems so they sold it to Tata.

You should have asked her what kind of mileage she gets on her Ford Explorer.

 

[TomT]

Frankly, it sounds like both of you were equally belligerent and antagonistic...

The nerve of this individual to say such belligerent remarks. What gave her the right? Opinions are fine in certain situations, but her thoughts were psychologically inept. I thought to myself later on, does this woman work for the oil industry or does she own a gas station?

 

[edatoakrun]

And probably, lead to most of the L2's now being installed, to be abandoned in the future.

be careful what you wish for, the lack-of-use of L2 chargers will be used as an excuse to kill L3 chargers

Not my wish, at all, but it is my fear, that L2 installations may discredit "electric cars" and delay A functional recharging infrastructure, and the conversion of the nation's vehicle fleet to BEVs

Looks like California, for example may blow 90% of the new $110 million dollar charger program, to install 10,000 L2s, leading to endless conflicts over parking, and without considering that there really is no viable economic model for managing parking and charging fees, to sustain the high cost at most of these public L2 locations.

But no matter how low the average occupancy rate is of these L2's is, a BEV driver can never be assured, that every available L2 parking space is not occupied, when they arrive, and need a charge.

Of course, there will be an L2 parking space available, to you, most of the time.

And on those occasions, you can get exactly what you want, a charge...after only a couple of hours.

And when it finally occurs to every one that, yes, the billions of dollars that have been spent, to install hundreds of thousands of public L2s, this colossal waste will be used as an argument to further delay the establishment, of a rational fast charge infrastructure.

 

[ebill3]

I disagree completely. Having L2s at places where you stop to eat, shop, walk, be a tourist or a customer is an excellent idea.

Exactly.

We don't often travel out of the LEAF's range, but yesterday visited a garden center about 49 miles from home - all freeway. Plugged into a Blink behind a Starbucks, had a latte and read the paper, walked half block to the garden center. Small purchases easily carried back to the car. On the way home, stopped for lunch at a very nice restaurant that is steps away from public parking and a Charge Point. A leisurely lunch allowed ample charge time, but if it had not, the parking garage is under the library - a great place to wait for a charge.

With the LEAF's belly quite full, no need to travel in the right lane on the way home - hop into the HOV lane and keep up with those folks.

Bill

 

[KillaWhat]

I also think her problem was Range Rover based.

I traded in a 1999 Range Rover HSE for my Leaf.
Original cost, just under $70K
11 MPG with a stiff tailwind.
We used to call it the old $1100.
Everything was $1100; every time there was a noise.. another $1100....

When I went to trade it in, they told me to just keep it.
They seriously didn't want it.
I had to pretend to walk away from the deal before they agreed to take it.
I could of pulled in with a 74' Chevy Vega and they would have taken it...

I'm sure that must have been the problem......

 

[Boomer23]

I disagree completely. Having L2s at places where you stop to eat, shop, walk, be a tourist or a customer is an excellent idea.

Exactly.

We don't often travel out of the LEAF's range, but yesterday visited a garden center about 49 miles from home - all freeway. Plugged into a Blink behind a Starbucks, had a latte and read the paper, walked half block to the garden center. Small purchases easily carried back to the car. On the way home, stopped for lunch at a very nice restaurant that is steps away from public parking and a Charge Point. A leisurely lunch allowed ample charge time, but if it had not, the parking garage is under the library - a great place to wait for a charge.

With the LEAF's belly quite full, no need to travel in the right lane on the way home - hop into the HOV lane and keep up with those folks.

Bill

Add my vote that properly placed L2s are really useful. I drove about 50 freeway miles from full this morning to events in San Juan Capistrano and then Newport Beach, ending up at South Coast Plaza with 22 miles on the GOM. We had lunch at Crystal Court and did some shopping while charging for a bit more than an hour at L2 at the ChargePoint below Crate and Barrel. Then we moved the car to the parking structure at South Coast Repertory to attend a 3 hour play that we had tickets for. Returned to the car with 11 bars and no need to even charge at home this evening. While we drove less than 60 miles total, it was all on freeway, some of it in rain, so not very efficient driving, and having been able to charge while we ate, shopped and watched a play was very reassuring and encouraged me to choose the LEAF for this somewhat ambitious day of driving instead of opting for the Prius, which was my wife's first choice.

 

[coqui]

People do think in terms of gas prices. Heck, my boss's Expedition costs what? $130 to fill up one time? So therefore, the public's perception is, it must cost a similar amount (i.e. $50 to $130) for a single charge! :shock:

 

[lpickup]

I (nearly) had the opposite reaction last week. I came out of a restaurant and saw a lady taking a picture of the back of my car (maybe my license plate). As I got into my car and backed out of my spot, I saw her and her family walking towards me, with a huge smile on her face. I nearly rolled down my window and asked if she wanted to have a closer look, but it definitely looked like they were very interested in the car!

 

[edatoakrun]

Well, it sounds as if one of you could have avoided several hours of delay, at L2 at “a great place to wait for a charge”, with a 10 minute QC.

The other, probably didn’t need a charge at all, but used over 10 kWh of peak-demand (?) charging, “just in case”, which would have been unnecessary, if you had the option of a 5 minute QC, on the way home, if you actually needed it.

What did you folks pay, for the L2 charges?

What do you suppose the actual cost, to provide those charges to you, was, per kWh?

IMO, Public L2 will only work, as it does for you now, by having someone else pay part or all of the costs, for you.

When the number of BEVs and PHEVs increase above the current trivial numbers, I believe that this economic reality, will become apparent.

There is a sound economic reason, we rarely link purchases of any product, to designated parking times, in public parking spaces.

It doesn’t work very well.

And with the QC alternative available to BEVs, it is largely unnecessary.

I disagree completely. Having L2s at places where you stop to eat, shop, walk, be a tourist or a customer is an excellent idea.

Exactly.

We don't often travel out of the LEAF's range, but yesterday visited a garden center about 49 miles from home - all freeway. Plugged into a Blink behind a Starbucks, had a latte and read the paper, walked half block to the garden center. Small purchases easily carried back to the car. On the way home, stopped for lunch at a very nice restaurant that is steps away from public parking and a Charge Point. A leisurely lunch allowed ample charge time, but if it had not, the parking garage is under the library - a great place to wait for a charge.

With the LEAF's belly quite full, no need to travel in the right lane on the way home - hop into the HOV lane and keep up with those folks.

Bill

Add my vote that properly placed L2s are really useful. I drove about 50 freeway miles from full this morning to events in San Juan Capistrano and then Newport Beach, ending up at South Coast Plaza with 22 miles on the GOM. We had lunch at Crystal Court and did some shopping while charging for a bit more than an hour at L2 at the ChargePoint below Crate and Barrel. Then we moved the car to the parking structure at South Coast Repertory to attend a 3 hour play that we had tickets for. Returned to the car with 11 bars and no need to even charge at home this evening. While we drove less than 60 miles total, it was all on freeway, some of it in rain, so not very efficient driving, and having been able to charge while we ate, shopped and watched a play was very reassuring and encouraged me to choose the LEAF for this somewhat ambitious day of driving instead of opting for the Prius, which was my wife's first choice.

 

[SierraQ]

She said, in a stern voice, " I never said it was nice."

Maybe she meant to say, "I never said I was nice." :evil:

The radicals are hopefully just that--few and far between. These are the same people who hate the 10 items or less line because they are always running with a full cart. Or the HOV lane because they never carpool.

Without exception every person to approach me has been fascinated by the car and they see it as a high-tech futuristic vehicle that someday we'll all be driving. I've never been asked once about how I'm not paying gas taxes or other things. However, we don't have that many public charging stations so the "free fuel" perception is less visible.

It won't be free forever so everyone enjoy it while they can. They will find someway to tax us while ignoring what the car gives back (no pollution, healthier air for all, less noise, etc.)

 

[Nubo]

I (nearly) had the opposite reaction last week. I came out of a restaurant and saw a lady taking a picture of the back of my car (maybe my license plate). As I got into my car and backed out of my spot, I saw her and her family walking towards me, with a huge smile on her face. I nearly rolled down my window and asked if she wanted to have a closer look, but it definitely looked like they were very interested in the car!

Similar experience here. I was charging at a Wallgreens and when I returned from my activities I still had a couple of hours to burn. Thought I'd just watch a movie in the car. As it turned out I got a constant stream of queries from passers-by. Most were quite supportive and fascinated though you could tell that a couple of them weren't thrilled about the idea of me getting free electricity. I explained that this was up to Wallgreens and they could charge if they wanted to. That seemed to garner more agreement. I did make a purchase before I left -- to go finish charging a bit closer to home. Although I enjoyed evangelizing, I didn't want to spend 2 hours at it :lol: . Fortunately there was a more out-of-the-way EVSE about 30 miles down the road.

 

[edatoakrun]

I think you public L2ers may have to worry about radical pro-electric thinkers.

Another group of "crazy" people, who may harass you on a hot afternoon, as you sit and charge.

"Do you realize, that by making a habit of charging on peak, you are requiring the further construction and increased use, of inefficient 'peaker' fossil fueled power plants, and your vehicle fueling pattern may actually be both more expensive, and environmentally damaging, than driving a gas-fueled car?."

Don't worry, it won't be me.

Since there was no QC for me to use earlier that morning, nor will there be, later in the evening, I may be in my LEAF ,parked and plugged in at the L2 next to you, reading a book...

 

[spike09]

Do you think this may have just been a simple misunderstanding? Maybe she assumed you were taking the electricity without paying for it and then when you said that they couldn't legally charge you for it, she thought you were using that as cover for essentially stealing. In other words, she felt that you were taking advantage of Walgreens but wasn't aware that Walgreens is OK with offering free electricity for its customers.

+1 : Your answer was way over her head. A more concise answer to "Do you have to pay for that?" is "No, Walgreens is giving it away for free"

 

[smkettner]

As if you installed the thing to steal electricity :roll: :lol:
If she does not like what Walgreens has chosen to do let her shop elsewhere.
Otherwise send her in to gripe at the manager that he does not provide her with 20 cents of gasoline. (6 oz?)

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

+1 : Your answer was way over her head. A more concise answer to "Do you have to pay for that?" is "No, Walgreens is giving it away for free"

Without question the best advice so far on this thread. Short and sweet. Leave out all the details and cut the conversation short, avoid getting defensive or confrontational. When she walked away and muttered "I'm not sure I agree with that" you smile, keep still and think to yourself "lady nobody gives a f--- what you agree with".

Easy to say of course, I probably would have blown up in her face too.

 

[foobert]

Some folks here need to take a hard look in the mirror and really think about your own attitudes and your respect for others. Let's dissect what's been said in this thread. Some lady makes the following statements:

"Do you have to pay for that?"

"I'm not sure if I agree with that ... with Walgreens paying for the electricity. I don't think that's right ... and I don't think I'm going to shop at TCBY either."

I mumbled a few choice words under my breath. ... I yelled, " enjoy your $4.00 gallon gas prices. Enjoy your life too."

The nerve of this individual to say such belligerent remarks..

I don't see any belligerence in her question. I see plenty of it in your post and the general opinion you hold of someone that might question how things work.

But, it doesn't stop there.

...little old ladies in tennis shoes may pull out a box cutter or a Glock and settle your hash right there ...

She probably had Alzheimer's...you cant reason with people like that.

(Is that your medical diagnosis, doctor?)

In a not too distant future she will be dead, and it won't matter.

Well.. she's old so she'll die soon enough.

The old cow's disposition can't have been improved...

Whether we asked for it or not, as early adopters, we are the stewards of tomorrow's technology. We aren't going to win the hearts and minds of others if we can't engage in constructive conversation with the random strangers, even less on this forum where we, alone, set the tone.

 

[thankyouOB]

cant disagree. except cwo was being arch.

 

[LakeLeaf]

Some folks here need to take a hard look in the mirror and really think about your own attitudes and your respect for others.

Yeah - a lot of class acts posting on this thread [/sarc]