Updated information from ECOtality San Diego 5/26/2011

[walterbays]

Thanks for sending any interested parties to the 9/13 forum. As I've posted in a separate thread, the registration link is below:

http://theevproject.com/sandiegoforum.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We should have a pretty good group there on Tuesday...Another thing that seems appropriate to bring up as it relates to finances...

As I understand this meeting is primarily for the business owners who we hope will be persuaded to install charging stations. Someone asked earlier whether anyone from this forum was going to be able to pass along any information. I sure hope some Leaf owners go. And I sure hope not a lot of us go, overwhelming and scaring away the business owners.

Now I'd be completely comfortable with Randy, who I expect will be there, representing us. I'm not certain, given that he works for SDG&E, that he would be completely comfortable relating news of the meeting to us - particularly any nuances which might reflect badly on the EV Project. And I'm not certain that he would feel completely free to ask tough questions that reflect the deep dissatisfaction with the EV Project which I think most of us feel, and which as taxpayers I think we have a right to expect would be answered.

So Randy, might you feel conflicted at this meeting? If so I think you should PM someone (not me, who can't make it in any event with a special invitation.

PS, glad to have you and your colleague (whose name I've forgotten) driving Leafs, and looking out for the interests of drivers.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Someone asked earlier whether anyone from this forum was going to be able to pass along any information. I sure hope some Leaf owners go.

I signed up to go.

 

[TRONZ]

The DOE funding represents only about half of the total funds for the EV Project (see my link above about 1/3 down the page). There are other ECO investors / stakeholders that have contributed matching funds (and of course they expect an eventual return on that).

Randy

When you mix private investor funds with public funds guess who's money disappears?!? It is certainly not the private investors seeking a return. This is the business model (scheme) of every failed military contract that's ever been. Generate huge amounts of marked up man hours billed to the USA.

EX: A privately owned aerospace company gets a big military contract to try and make something. Years go buy while they work on whatever it is. The funding runs out and the private company says they never got "whatever" to work. But who cares, the companies private investors got huge profits on the backs of employees work all paid for by the American taxpayer. Get it? Our money is gone and now in private investors private bank accounts and we got nothing for it.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The funding runs out and the private company says they never got "whatever" to work. But who cares, the companies private investors got huge profits on the backs of employees work all paid for by the American taxpayer.

You missed the step where they beg the government for more money first. That's just maximizing profits.

 

[TRONZ]

The funding runs out and the private company says they never got "whatever" to work. But who cares, the companies private investors got huge profits on the backs of employees work all paid for by the American taxpayer.

You missed the step where they beg the government for more money first. That's just maximizing profits.

I swear, if Ecotality has the nerve to ask for an extension to their funding I will freak out!

 

[davewill]

Seems to me you guys are misunderstanding the point of the DOE funding. It is to help jumpstart commercial charging stations. Just like the tax rebates are meant to jumpstart commercial EV sales. If Ecotality doesn't end up with a viable EV charging business at the end of all this, the public EV charging they've installed (including all the ones paid for with our money) end up abandoned to slowly rot away.

 

[KeiJidosha]

Seems to me you guys are misunderstanding the point of the DOE funding. It is to help jumpstart commercial charging stations. Just like the tax rebates are meant to jumpstart commercial EV sales. If Ecotality doesn't end up with a viable EV charging business at the end of all this, the public EV charging they've installed (including all the ones paid for with our money) end up abandoned to slowly rot away.

Instead it seems we will have NO infrastructure left behind to rot when the money runs out.

 

[davewill]

Instead it seems we will have NO infrastructure left behind to rot when the money runs out.

Point taken. Of course, since the money is only paid out for installed stations, the money won't "run out" in that case, just not get spent.

 

[KeiJidosha]

Instead it seems we will have NO infrastructure left behind to rot when the money runs out.

Point taken. Of course, since the money is only paid out for installed stations, the money won't "run out" in that case, just not get spent.

They’ve spent over $12m as of June 30;

http://www.recovery.gov/Transparency/RecipientReportedData/Pages/RecipientProjectSummary508.aspx?AwardIDSUR=58864&vendorstart=3#vendorawards" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

for 102 public charge sites;

http://www.blinknetwork.com/locator.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At about $115k per site, the money is getting spent.

 

[davewill]

They’ve spent over $12m as of June 30;

http://www.recovery.gov/Transparency/RecipientReportedData/Pages/RecipientProjectSummary508.aspx?AwardIDSUR=58864&vendorstart=3#vendorawards" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

for 102 public charge sites;

http://www.blinknetwork.com/locator.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At about $115k per site, the money is getting spent.

Considering the award is $100m it's not getting spent all that fast.

 

[TRONZ]

$115K per site is a totally ridiculous amount for Level 2 stations! The sooner their contract ends the quicker the DOE can reallocate the funding to companies that can get the job done. CP has no DOE contract and is rolling out new stations every week. I live in SoCal and have never even seen a Blink station. Not once ever! It's time to just look at their results. These original Ecotality companies have failed. The fat lady is clearing her throat.

 

[TonyWilliams]

At about $115k per site, the money is getting spent.

Which could outright pay for two L3 at each site.

 

[Randy]

Thanks for sending any interested parties to the 9/13 forum. As I've posted in a separate thread, the registration link is below:

http://theevproject.com/sandiegoforum.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We should have a pretty good group there on Tuesday...Another thing that seems appropriate to bring up as it relates to finances...

As I understand this meeting is primarily for the business owners who we hope will be persuaded to install charging stations. Someone asked earlier whether anyone from this forum was going to be able to pass along any information. I sure hope some Leaf owners go. And I sure hope not a lot of us go, overwhelming and scaring away the business owners.

Now I'd be completely comfortable with Randy, who I expect will be there, representing us. I'm not certain, given that he works for SDG&E, that he would be completely comfortable relating news of the meeting to us - particularly any nuances which might reflect badly on the EV Project. And I'm not certain that he would feel completely free to ask tough questions that reflect the deep dissatisfaction with the EV Project which I think most of us feel, and which as taxpayers I think we have a right to expect would be answered.

So Randy, might you feel conflicted at this meeting? If so I think you should PM someone (not me, who can't make it in any event with a special invitation.

PS, glad to have you and your colleague (whose name I've forgotten) driving Leafs, and looking out for the interests of drivers.

Hi Walter,
I have no anticipated conflicts at the meeting and in my work, except for the usual privacy concerns and misc. confidential data that I can't share. Other than that, the goal is to get more sites to sign up to host public charging stations, period. There will be a presentation and a discussion with interested parties about the basics of the EV Project, and what the benefits are for hosting, along with some case studies. We are motivated to get as many interested parties to host as we can...

For all the negative comments out there about the EV Project, to me it boils down to this: I believe this is the cheapest way for a commercial site to host charging stations at the present time. The hardware is free, and the installation is subsidized. If interested sites wait or hold back, then down the road they'll have to buy all the hardware, and pay for all of the installation.

I'm also realistic in that there are definitely some costs associated with hosting, particularly for the energy. That's where setting the charging fees are important. I believe the charging stations can be a real draw for customers that will only grow as more PEVs are sold. One of the best things we can do is to support the merchants who are installing the stations and be vocal to let them know that it was a good decision...Who knows, maybe they'll think about doing more locations or tell more of their colleagues who may also step forward...

I'll be at the meeting tomorrow....Randy

 

[ttweed]

They’ve spent over $12m as of June 30;

http://www.recovery.gov/Transparency/RecipientReportedData/Pages/RecipientProjectSummary508.aspx?AwardIDSUR=58864&vendorstart=3#vendorawards" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

for 102 public charge sites;

http://www.blinknetwork.com/locator.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At about $115k per site, the money is getting spent.

Maybe you should write for Faux News. This calculation is inaccurate and specious, at best. Did you even read the report you cited above? "There were 1,450 residential EVSE units installed in the 3rd quarter; bringing the total for the project to 1,690. In addition, 163 publicly accessible EVSE units were installed in the quarter." That's 1853 L2 chargers installed, not 102. Why are you counting only the public stations and then dividing that into $12M? That's not the least bit representative of what they've been doing with the money, or the cost of each installation. The residential installations have represented a huge proportion of their initial activity. The public stations are just beginning. Even ignoring start-up, development, legal and administrative costs (which were substantial, I'm sure), dividing $12M by 1853 installations = $6476/ea. A far cry from $115K per site. :roll:

You guys are harsh and impatient. As much as I'd like them to be moving faster, I'm not ready to tar and feather Ecotality and run them out of town on a rail. :roll:

TT

 

[ttweed]

$115K per site is a totally ridiculous amount for Level 2 stations! The sooner their contract ends the quicker the DOE can reallocate the funding to companies that can get the job done. CP has no DOE contract and is rolling out new stations every week. I live in SoCal and have never even seen a Blink station. Not once ever! It's time to just look at their results. These original Ecotality companies have failed. The fat lady is clearing her throat.

I live in San Diego and have never even seen a CP charging station. Not once ever! How many FREE residential stations has CP installed? Zero, AFAIK. You are comparing apples and oranges with your rant.

TT

 

[walterbays]

That's where setting the charging fees are important. I believe the charging stations can be a real draw for customers that will only grow as more PEVs are sold. One of the best things we can do is to support the merchants who are installing the stations and be vocal to let them know that it was a good decision...Who knows, maybe they'll think about doing more locations or tell more of their colleagues who may also step forward...

That's why I think I'll drive up to the Pala Casino some time and charge, even though I'm not much of a casino patron. And when Walgreens installs their high priced charging stations I'll visit them. And what I'm really looking forward to is L3 stations at Arco. I'll pay that fee (and let the folks paying $100 to fill their SUV's see me fill up . In time I expect merchants will undercut one another, and L2 charging will mostly be a shopping amenity, like free parking. After all, the electricity costs less than the ground the car is sitting on. I expect we'll see lots of paid charging, free with purchase at participating merchant.

 

[KeiJidosha]

You guys are harsh and impatient. As much as I'd like them to be moving faster, I'm not ready to tar and feather Ecotality and run them out of town on a rail.

I’m afraid ECOtality is responsible for my “unrealistic” expectations.

 

[solartim]

I live in San Diego and have never even seen a CP charging station. Not once ever! How many FREE residential stations has CP installed? Zero, AFAIK. You are comparing apples and oranges with your rant.

TT[/quote]

Go to the McDonalds in PB, I think it's on Grand, I think it's a Chargepoint. I can't say anything about residential.

I'm not going to pay to receive a card, or leave a balance on a card, the way chargepoint is set up. I'm just not going to need a public charger that often.

 

[wsbca]

That's why I think I'll drive up to the Pala Casino some time and charge, even though I'm not much of a casino patron.

But...but... isn't paying $1.06 a kWH sending exactly the wrong message in terms of demonstrating market forces to them? Surely it's not literally worth that much to you. Wouldn't it be better to let those units sit idle until they lower the price? They've already made the investment - what possible value is there in reinforcing the unrealistic pricing scheme?

 

[TRONZ]

You guys are harsh and impatient. As much as I'd like them to be moving faster, I'm not ready to tar and feather Ecotality and run them out of town on a rail.

I’m afraid ECOtality is responsible for my “unrealistic” expectations.

This map is exactly the point! No one is debating the fact that Ecotality has installed private chargers with public money. The concerns (and rants) are regarding the failure of installing public chargers with public money. The Government was very specific that public infrastructure was a VITAL condition of being awarded the grant. They have failed to live up to that agreement. None of us is interested in "how quickly" our money is spent. We just want the correct amount of money spent for each station completed. If they do this quickly then all the better.

Ecotality was given a $100,000,000.00 monopoly in a "cash is king" economy. It doesnt get any better than that! It is beyond me why some people are suggesting that they need to be "given a chance". What do they think they have had for the past two years???