To leaf or not to leaf, that is my question

[user 10599]

His 'best offer' provides you a good car for $17,800 net of the tax credit and rebate. When I look at what else is available under $18k, the Leaf SV is a bargain especially after factoring in the fuel savings and the maintenance savings. And the HOV access is a nice bonus.

Like others have mentioned, be leery of depending on workplace charging. Even your workplace can have a power outage, right? The new ones with 30 kwh batteries will allow you to do the round-trip commute for a long time if you take good care of it - all with less worries about workplace charging reliability. And unless you are top dog at work, job changes can happen. When I bought mine, I had a short commute. Now after changing jobs, I have a commute that is too long for my older Leaf. The longer range gives you more flexibility.

Normally, I despise leases. But with an EV, they may make good sense. The gap insurance recommendation is probably a good one if you go the lease route.

 

[GerryAZ]

You don't need to purchase gap insurance with a lease from Nissan because it is already included in the lease terms and conditions. If you lease, don't pay much down because you will lose that down payment if the car is totaled. Also, be aware of the residual value if you want to keep the car at the end of the lease.

Gerry

 

[LeftieBiker]

Also, be aware of the residual value if you want to keep the car at the end of the lease.

During the Great Lease Rush of 2013, residuals were all over the map, from low residuals with high payments, to high residuals with low payments - like mine. Now, Nissan seems to have set the residuals low for everyone, making leases more expensive, but also making buying the car if you like it a better proposition. Current Leaf residuals are around $12k. That means if you like the car, you get a good deal when you buy it. If you don't like it, or it gets totaled, you payed a lot of extra money to buy equity in the car that you won't or can't use.

 

[Nubo]

He said the internet site is wrong. He said the actual price shown of $28600 already had the $4000 for financing with them factored in. So he said the price is $32600 minus the 4k for financing with them. I called him out and said, why does your website say 32600 - 4k online price rebate (no mention of incentive for financing) and he said, sorry but it is what it is.

I'd buy somewhere else, whether or not it was cheaper. Cheats don't get my money. It is what it is.

 

[paulcone]

Like others have mentioned, be leery of depending on workplace charging. Even your workplace can have a power outage, right?

I'd guess since he works for the electric company he's more likely to suffer a power outage at home.

 

[leafn]

So I've been looking at used just to see what's out there. Why are these things so cheap used? Here's a 2013 with 35k miles for 11k:

https://www.carmax.com/cars/nissan/leaf/2013/13233074

How in the world would I even begin to assess if this is a good buy? I'd love to be able to be all electric and get in the HOV lane all for 10k.

 

[edatoakrun]

="leafn" So I've been looking at used just to see what's out there. Why are these things so cheap used?...

New BEVs can be leased from other manufactures for ~three years, for ~ free (Chevy Spark E) or extremely cheaply in California:

Fire sale on Chevy Spark EVs and Volts, BMW i-3s, Fiat 500s, And Golf SEs?

If the source below is correct, all those BEVs/PHEVs can now be leased for 30-39 months at lower cost (more than $3k less, for the ~we'll pay you to take a Spark, after $4k CA rebate) than a stripper LEAF S.

http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/2015/12/current-lease-offers-for-selected-2015.html

Best BEV Deals: March, April, May 2016
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=21614&p=461233#p461233

So, it is actually baffling to me why anyone would buy a used LEAF in CA today, unless the LEAFs various advantages over the other BEVs are particularly important to you.

 

[WetEV]

So I've been looking at used just to see what's out there. Why are these things so cheap used?

Because used competes with new and soon to be available.

A 60kWh Bolt/Leaf2/Model3 would make your all electric commute doable with home or work charging (which ever was the cheapest and easiest) in the HOV lane work for a decade or more. Faster acceleration, more battery capacity, better battery life, more battery capacity, "autopilot" type features, more battery capacity, and so on. Did I mention more battery capacity?

Here's a 2013 with 35k miles for 11k:

https://www.carmax.com/cars/nissan/leaf/2013/13233074

How in the world would I even begin to assess if this is a good buy? I'd love to be able to be all electric and get in the HOV lane all for 10k.

11 capacity bars, so has roughly 79% to 85% of original battery capacity of 21kWh (usable). With a 38 mile one way commute, you will need about 10% reserve minimum 2kWh plus 13kWh for your commute (assuming no traffic 3 miles/kWh, stop and go is better) plus a kWh or maybe 2 kWh for heat on cold days. Looks to me like you would like to have 17 kWh, which is about 80% of capacity. This is a "No Worries" sort of calculation, I'd expect you can do far better. The longest commute freeway commute I would say is "No Worries" is about 30 miles with the 2013 Leaf S. Yes, longer if slower. So I do not recommend this car for you, as I don't think it fits your commute.

The 30kWh battery will mean you can run down to about 65% of original capacity and still have no worries on your commute. A 60kWh battery means you can pick where you charge, and run down to 65%, and still have no worries.

If you had a shorter commute, I'd suggest some more checks and maybe buy the car. But with a 38 mile freeway commute, I'd suggest new, 30kWh nominal (more than 26 kWh usable) or more.

 

[leafn]

Thanks for the info everyone. I have to do some more thinking. Sounds like a used leaf is a bad decision.

 

[storaasli]

I was in the same boat as you. In Los Angeles, charging available, and looking for an EV. After talking to a couple dealers, I decided that even with all the incentives, a new leaf was going to be more expensive in the long run than a used Leaf.
I looked into used 2013 Leafs in Socal. Looking at the New EV sales from 2013 (http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/), you can surmise that a whole bunch of these will be coming off lease in the next couple months.

You can use an OBDII reader and an app called LeafSpy to determine the battery's state of health. My criteria was >80% state of health on the battery and <20000miles on the car.

The 2013 and newer cars have a lizard pack battery that apparently lasts longer.

I ended up purchasing a used 2012 Leaf SL with ~25kmiles for under $10k with a brand new battery (3 week old warranty replacement). I checked the warranty history of the car before purchase, and found it lived in Tempe, Arizona - hence the battery replacement. I figure with a new 24kWh lizard pack battery, its pretty much a new car for under $10k.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The 2013 and newer cars have a lizard pack battery that apparently lasts longer.

No! It's confusing, but the 'Lizard Pack' wasn't installed until cars built at the end of 2014. For 2013, cars built in January through March seem to have either the previous generation pack, or one that degrades at the same rate as the old ones. Starting in April of 2013, Leafs got a pack that resists degrading *slightly better* than the earlier packs, but these do not have the so-called Lizard Pack. So when looking at 2013 Leafs, check the build date on the door jamb, and avoid those with 'Canary Packs' made Jan-March.

 

[leafn]

Just wanted to give everyone an update. I'll be going in after work and picking up my 2016 Leaf SV. I'm purchasing since a lease wouldn't work for me. I drive more than 12,000 miles/year. I figured this car would be good for at least a decade so I don't mind spending a bit more.

The deal is actually pretty good. $27,500 with 0% interest for 6 years. Then I'll get $2500 from California and $7500 come tax time so that $10,000 covers over 2 years of payments. Plus I'm guaranteed for carpool lane access for at least 2.5 years. So really the cost out the door including interest is $17,500. I'm confident in the bigger battery to make my commute easily no matter the conditions.

 

[user 10599]

For $17.5k you have a better car than most other new cars available under $20k. Plus you will save over time on fuel and maintenance.

Congrats! The newer 30kwh battery should do well for you.

 

[RonDawg]

Congrats on the "about to happen" purchase. With a 6 year loan especially on the Leaf make sure you get gap insurance. Again don't buy it from the dealer; your own insurance company very likely offers GAP coverage for a much smaller cost.

Also start looking at 240 volt charging stations. While it may be possible to do your commute on 120 volt (L1) when you supplement it with workplace charging, the car will be more enjoyable to own and commuting less stressful when you know the battery will be able to be charged overnight.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Just wanted to give everyone an update. I'll be going in after work and picking up my 2016 Leaf SV. I'm purchasing since a lease wouldn't work for me. I drive more than 12,000 miles/year. I figured this car would be good for at least a decade so I don't mind spending a bit more.

The deal is actually pretty good. $27,500 with 0% interest for 6 years. Then I'll get $2500 from California and $7500 come tax time so that $10,000 covers over 2 years of payments. Plus I'm guaranteed for carpool lane access for at least 2.5 years. So really the cost out the door including interest is $17,500. I'm confident in the bigger battery to make my commute easily no matter the conditions.

Out of curiousity, how is it that you drive so many miles but are confident the car will last for a decade or more? Do you do a lot of shorter trips, with guaranteed charging at each end?

It sounds like you're getting a great deal, I just hope the car doesn't disappoint you after 5-6 years.

 

[Drivegreen]

Just wanted to give everyone an update. I'll be going in after work and picking up my 2016 Leaf SV. I'm purchasing since a lease wouldn't work for me. I drive more than 12,000 miles/year. I figured this car would be good for at least a decade so I don't mind spending a bit more.

The deal is actually pretty good. $27,500 with 0% interest for 6 years. Then I'll get $2500 from California and $7500 come tax time so that $10,000 covers over 2 years of payments. Plus I'm guaranteed for carpool lane access for at least 2.5 years. So really the cost out the door including interest is $17,500. I'm confident in the bigger battery to make my commute easily no matter the conditions.

nice! Congratulations.