This just in : $ for L3 charging option.

[dallasmay]

But then my source got this information at the dealers conference in Vegas last week and, while I'm still trying to verify it directly with Nissan, I'm inclined to believe it may be so.

I hope you are mistaken, and in my little mind I am going to keep telling myself that you are. (I'm really a big fan of truthiness.) But anyway, Nissan is also keeping their own dealers in the Dark about a lot of things. A guy at allcarselectric.com talked to a dealer who made up all kinds of crap. It's actually pretty funny how much he doesn't know about this car, but answers point blank anyway.

http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1048149_what-do-nissan-dealers-really-know-about-the-2011-leaf

Needless to say, I think there is a lot of misinformation about this car -as there always is with anything new.

 

[mwalsh]

A guy at allcarselectric.com talked to a dealer who made up all kinds of crap. It's actually pretty funny how much he doesn't know about this car, but answers point blank anyway.

But that was a salesman at a British dealership. They are about where our dealers were in April....they don't know anything. Heck, public reservations for the car don't even start until next month. And I'm guessing they won't start training their dealers until the end of this year! But, that said, it does take huge stones to just go ahead and answer the questions.

Believe me, I hope what I've heard is wrong and EVERY Leaf is going to get L3 for free. I WANT to be wrong. I just don't think I am. However, I now inquires out to both my Nissan contacts. Of course, the one gal has to ask the first guy, so I'll still only be getting one person's knowledge of the situation.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I could live without L3 as standard IF they actually put a real charger on board like a 6.6 kw or higher. NIssan expects people to pay at least the inflated $2200 form AV to get better than 120 charging and then they only have a 3.3 kw charger which will clearly change later and then they may charge for something that was listed as standard on the reservation page as I recall. Just think how your car will devalue when they have 6.6 kw chargers and a possibly better pack and L3 charging. Even the 3.3 kw charging is a tough compromise but it's better with the L3 but not at $700! I would possibly use L3 a few times a year costing about $50 a use.

 

[evnow]

http://nissan-leaf.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=66

Nissan chat confirmation. No prices, though.

Tom:
On the Nissan site, under the specs for the SL, it says:
"All the features of our standard SV PLUS..."
QuickCharger *optional". Does that mean I pay extra for it beyond the SL package?

Jesse
Yes. The level 3 charging port is an optional add on available on the SL package.

Tom
So it is not included automatically and is an add-on cost?

Jesse
The quick charge port is not automatically included. However if you are approved for the free charger from ECOtality the port will be included as part of that project.

 

[EVDRIVER]

That's misleading to say the SL has it and it makes one think the actual quick charger is optional not the port. I also notice Nissan never mentions that you can quick charge as an option, this has been kept quiet. So having the SL package only give you the "option" to get L3! So you pay extra for the SL only to get the option to pay even more. Stupid. If it's $700 I'm going to be very unhappy as I will rarely use this but not having it will seriously devalue the resale of the car, this should be included for all early rollout vehicles or discounted. Very misleading. So to get L3 you must pay almost $2k over the SV. The value of the SL package without L3 included is quite low since the solar panel is pretty pointless so you are left with a couple expensive options. What other hidden fees and charges will we see to add margin. Too bad no one asked this on NPR the other day!

 

[mwalsh]

Too bad no one asked this on NPR the other day!

Actually, Mark Perry mentions that "...we'll have that option available for DC fast charging, to give consumers THAT choice...." in that NPR program from yesterday. Again muddying the L3 picture in that he doesn't mention who will be able to get it or what the cost will be.

But don't worry my friends, I will be pushing hard for all outstanding L3 questions to be answered by early next week.

Edit: Your recall is incorrect, evdriver. In the brief time it was listed, fast charging was always shown as an additional cost option for the SL.

 

[evnow]

If it's $700 I'm going to be very unhappy as I will rarely use this but not having it will seriously devalue the resale of the car, this should be included for all early rollout vehicles or discounted.

If 3 years down the road something else as replaced Chademo, it won't devalue the car. If I was not in EV Project, I'd buy SL - but not the L3. That way when I sell, if Chademo was all the rage, I could tell the buyer that the option to put in an L3 was available ...

 

[EVDRIVER]

If it's $700 I'm going to be very unhappy as I will rarely use this but not having it will seriously devalue the resale of the car, this should be included for all early rollout vehicles or discounted.

If 3 years down the road something else as replaced Chademo, it won't devalue the car. If I was not in EV Project, I'd buy SL - but not the L3. That way when I sell, if Chademo was all the rage, I could tell the buyer that the option to put in an L3 was available ...

Having L3 whether used or not is a buying value perception. People buy things they may never use out of fear of it not being the "best" or slower to charge. I bet very few people use L3 much but many people will insist on having it. I would not get it if the onboard charger were not so low power, that's the rub on this EV. When you sell the car you can say it charges in 30 minutes and others only charge in 8 hours, perceived value.

 

[dallasmay]

As I said before, if this is the case this sounds like a bait-and-switch law suit waiting to happen. Think about the "Vista Capable" lawsuits that got MS hammered a few years ago. If this is true, Nissan is clearly trying to confuse and misinform buyers on what they are ordering. If Nissan isn't careful they are going to end up having to install fast chargers on every Leaf for free.

I still am 80% disbelieving this. It just doesn't make any sense for Nissan to risk such a firestorm of criticism out of the gate. Especially for a car that the vast majority of people are weary of anyways because of the new technology and lower range.

 

[jhm614]

As I said before, if this is the case this sounds like a bait-and-switch law suit waiting to happen. Think about the "Vista Capable" lawsuits that got MS hammered a few years ago. If this is true, Nissan is clearly trying to confuse and misinform buyers on what they are ordering. If Nissan isn't careful they are going to end up having to install fast chargers on every Leaf for free.

I still am 80% disbelieving this. It just doesn't make any sense for Nissan to risk such a firestorm of criticism out of the gate. Especially for a car that the vast majority of people are weary of anyways because of the new technology and lower range.

Hmmm... when I place my $99 res, the L3 was clearly labeled as "optional". And as an option, I would expect to pay an additional cost for it. That being said, I'm glad it's an option. Why build it into base price and raise everybody's cost when most early buyers won't use it very much? I know I wouldn't use it because L3 charging is hard on the batteries and lowers their capacity faster than regular chagring.

 

[detlefo]

I am new to the forum and have held a reservation for a blue SL since May 17th. This is the first time that I have heard that there would be an additional charge for L3. If it is mentioned it is pretty subtle. With all the hype about quick charging I simply assumed that it was a feature. I have never seen a photo without the L3 plug. I would not have even considered the LEAF without this feature and think that Nissan is making a huge mistake with this strategy. Though I will generally not need L3 charging, not having it will eliminate a number of destinations I require. L2 charging on the road is a poor alternative. If this roll out is to succeed it must include an aggressive roll out of L3 charging stations as well. This lack of commitment on the part of Nissan is troubling and may cause me to reconsider. Strike one was the totally excessive AV installation cost. This is strike two. Three strikes and you're out.

By the way, Great job on the forum.

 

[LEAFfan]

I am new to the forum and have held a reservation for a blue SL since May 17th. This is the first time that I have heard that there would be an additional charge for L3. If it is mentioned it is pretty subtle. With all the hype about quick charging I simply assumed that it was a feature. I have never seen a photo without the L3 plug. I would not have even considered the LEAF without this feature and think that Nissan is making a huge mistake with this strategy. Though I will generally not need L3 charging, not having it will eliminate a number of destinations I require. L2 charging on the road is a poor alternative. If this roll out is to succeed it must include an aggressive roll out of L3 charging stations as well. This lack of commitment on the part of Nissan is troubling and may cause me to reconsider. Strike one was the totally excessive AV installation cost. This is strike two. Three strikes and you're out.

By the way, Great job on the forum.

When we ordered in Apr., it was listed as an Option only on the SL.

 

[evnow]

Though I will generally not need L3 charging, not having it will eliminate a number of destinations I require.

But who is installing L3 chargers in those destinations ?

If you are in a EV Project area, I'd say get the L3. You will have some fast chargers around. If not - you are unlikely to have any L3 chargers around.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Though I will generally not need L3 charging, not having it will eliminate a number of destinations I require.

But who is installing L3 chargers in those destinations ?

If you are in a EV Project area, I'd say get the L3. You will have some fast chargers around. If not - you are unlikely to have any L3 chargers around.

There wil be several at my dealer very close to my home, the assessment was already done. Regardless it also allows the possibility of a faster aftermarket charger, you need the DC port for this.

 

[detlefo]

I live in the Sierra Foothills and L3 charging in Vacaville, which I understand is planned, would get me to SF where there will also be L3. Hopefully, Sacramento will also be a candidate for L3.

 

[stanley]

When I ordered on May 15 it was an option on th SL. My recollection is that the Leaf site asked if I would consider ordering it.

 

[Randy3]

Two thoughts --

Interesting that the price for L3 charging ($700) seems to be very close to the amount I'd save by having my local electrician install my home charger instead of using the Nissan "official" vendor. So, maybe I'll think that I'm spending the $700 I'm saving on the install on this L3 option.

Also, with L3, I'd like a firm commitment from Nissan dealers: that every dealer would agree to have L3 at their dealership and that these would be available for our use anytime they are not being used by the dealership. I could see where my little SatNav/Charger system would point me to an available L3 at the local dealers along my route.

 

[garygid]

If "all" the EVs have L3, then L3 "e-stations" are likely to be installed on major highways. With just a modest number of well-located L3 e-stations, the L3 EVs can be "roamers" instead of just fast NEVs. Or, perhaps LEAFs "in the wind", not just "fallen" LEAFs.

If only a few EVs have L3 capability, there will be little incentive to build e-stations. Then, the LEAF will be basically a "local-use" vehicle. L2 charging stations do not really help with breaking out of the typical One-Charge round-trip usage.

I believe Nissan needs to fully support and encourage the Quick-Charge capability to make their EV a "real" vehicle, not just a NEV on steroids.

 

[EVDRIVER]

If "all" the EVs have L3, then L3 "e-stations" are likely to be installed on major highways. With just a modest number of well-located L3 e-stations, the L3 EVs can be "roamers" instead of just fast NEVs. Or, perhaps LEAFs "in the wind", not just "fallen" LEAFs.

If only a few EVs have L3 capability, there will be little incentive to build e-stations. Then, the LEAF will be basically a "local-use" vehicle. L2 charging stations do not really help with breaking out of the typical One-Charge round-trip usage.

I believe Nissan needs to fully support and encourage the Quick-Charge capability to make their EV a "real" vehicle, not just a NEV on steroids.

I agree, they should not discourage this, I also know dealers as complaining about the charger costs and ROI

 

[mitch672]

Gary,

see my post on page 4. You can see both sides, and guess what? Nissan has the final decision.


Nissans Point of view:
There is no L3 standard, Nissan doesn't want to put out the Chademo L3, only to be forced to change out, when the SAE standard is finalized, costing them millions to changeout, also battery life will be somewhat affected for earlier failure, increasing their warranty costs.

EV owners point of view:
everyone wants the L3 option. period. there are many reasons, from having the ability to use the Leaf for an extended trip, to being able to buy 3rd party high power chargers (12KW is available, see my other post)

I don't have to worry about any of this, no Leaf's on the East coast for over a year.
(fall / winter 2011 availability)