This just in : $ for L3 charging option.

[KeiJidosha]

I’m planning on getting the L3 option. I want an L3 charging standard, and will vote with my wallet.

It takes ~24 hours to go from Los Angeles to San Francisco charging at 7kW. It would take over 40 hours at 3.3kW. 11 hours using L3 won’t make it fast, but it makes it possible.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I’m planning on getting the L3 option. I want an L3 charging standard, and will vote with my wallet.

It takes ~24 hours to go from Los Angeles to San Francisco charging at 7kW. It would take over 40 hours at 3.3kW. 11 hours using L3 won’t make it fast, but it makes it possible.

LA to SF is about 6-7 hour drive tops. If you stop for six 20 min L3 charges that makes it 9 hour likely even with 80% charge. Regardless, at 3.3 kw it would take more like 50 hours plus. 3.3 Kw charging is really lame on a full sized EV.

 

[mwalsh]

I've just sent an email to our main man at Nissan looking for some clarification:

In the beginning, we were made to think that L3 was only going to be available on the SL, at an additional cost, and only available on cars in markets where a charging infrastructure was anticipated. Then Nissan seemed to step away from this, and it was thought that just maybe L3 would be available on ALL Leafs, possibly even as a standard item.

Anyhow, my spies at the dealer conference in Las Vegas have fed me information that the original plan stands, and the L3 option will be $700, SL only (EV Project cars excepted). Would you be so kind as to confirm this or let us know if this is something Nissan is still considering?

FWIW, I think the membership [of mynissanleaf.com] would like to see L3 offered on ALL Leafs (though the majority of us have ordered SLs anyway), and I think we'd like to see it as a standard item. But if not standard, I think we'd be happier if the cost was more in line with what we had anticipated - a couple of hundred dollars. Just our collective $0.02 worth.

 

[evnow]

As to the argument that the standard hasn't been decided on - to me that kind of goes out the door if Nissan is going to deliver L3 in certain areas where they expect concentrations of EV's, and the EV Project is going to install L3's to support those cars.

The reason why they are giving L3 for EV Project is that they have committed to doing that for the study. I think otherwise they may have completely left out L3 ...

 

[Ready2plugin]

I've just sent an email to our main man at Nissan looking for some clarification:

Very nice! Thank you for sending that out. Hopefully they will do a 180 and put it in as standard.

 

[lettcco]

Great job mwalsh, I hope they will change their mind too.

L3 charging IMHO is the ticket to replace gas station with charging station. The convenience and the assurance it brings is exactly what's needed to rid of the range anxiety. I just felt it give off a false advertising sense when they show the L3 charging port on all the video but now it's a super expensive add on.

 

[Boomer23]

I really want L3. Part of the reason I am getting the Leaf as a first generation, mass market EV is to experience living with an EV and to find out if it is a good choice for me and for others. I plan to blog about the experience. I see it as a pioneer vehicle.

Though I don't have a daily commute and have only driven my personal car an average of 6,500 miles per year recently, I'd like to try the adventure of driving from my home in Orange County to LA or San Diego, which are areas where L3 chargers will be deployed. I likely won't be able to make the round trip on one full charge, but I want to see what it is like to rely on the charging infrastructure for mid-range trips like this.

I think it is astounding that Nissan will not include L3 charging on all Leafs. That decision has the potential to backfire on them in a big way. They are already vulnerable to GM's claims that the Leaf isn't in the same league as the Volt. Everyone agrees that range anxiety is the biggest negative in potential buyers' minds. Once the media get hold of this limited intro of L3, the general opinion will be that the Leaf isn't ready for prime time and it is only a good fit for the enthusiastic early adopters. You'll find owner reports that Nissan's claims of an 80% charge in 20 minutes are bogus and the car will get a bad reputation.

Nissan needs to make L3 widely available and at a cost of no more than $200. Period.

 

[LEAFfan]

I really want L3. Part of the reason I am getting the Leaf as a first generation, mass market EV is to experience living with an EV and to find out if it is a good choice for me and for others. I plan to blog about the experience. I see it as a pioneer vehicle.

Though I don't have a daily commute and have only driven my personal car an average of 6,500 miles per year recently, I'd like to try the adventure of driving from my home in Orange County to LA or San Diego, which are areas where L3 chargers will be deployed. I likely won't be able to make the round trip on one full charge, but I want to see what it is like to rely on the charging infrastructure for mid-range trips like this.

I think it is astounding that Nissan will not include L3 charging on all Leafs. That decision has the potential to backfire on them in a big way. They are already vulnerable to GM's claims that the Leaf isn't in the same league as the Volt. Everyone agrees that range anxiety is the biggest negative in potential buyers' minds. Once the media get hold of this limited intro of L3, the general opinion will be that the Leaf isn't ready for prime time and it is only a good fit for the enthusiastic early adopters. You'll find owner reports that Nissan's claims of an 80% charge in 20 minutes are bogus and the car will get a bad reputation.

Nissan needs to make L3 widely available and at a cost of no more than $200. Period.

Well put Boomer! If you haven't already, I would send this to Nissan.

 

[Boomer23]

Thank you! I'm fired up!! ... :twisted:... :lol:

Edit: Sent to Nissan!

 

[Kataphn]

If Nissan is reading +1 for what Boomer23 wrote about L3.

 

[LEAFer]

If Nissan is reading +1 for what Boomer23 wrote about L3.

Make it +2.

 

[garygid]

well said, I agree ... +3

 

[LEAFguy]

The LEAF sells for over $40,000 in Japan. I don't know if the Japanese version will be outfitted with a standard Level 3 connection. My own inclination is to believe that the Japanese version will come with the Level 3 connection as standard equipment. Two reasons: 1. The car costs over $40,000 in Japan. 2. Nissan has already committed to placing over 2,000 Level 2 stations and over 200 Level 3 stations around the country. In addition, Nissan has engineered and built a 208V Level 3 charging station that costs significantly less than a typical 440V Level 3 charging station. Nissan is a very conservative company. Japan already is commited to the CHAdeMO Level 3 connection. There is no Level 3 connection standard in the United States. Nissan is not going to put Level 3 connections in cars sold in the US without a standard in place unless you really want it and are willing to pay for it (or you are part of The EV Project).

 

[Boomer23]

The LEAF sells for over $40,000 in Japan. I don't know if the Japanese version will be outfitted with a standard Level 3 connection. My own inclination is to believe that the Japanese version will come with the Level 3 connection as standard equipment. Two reasons: 1. The car costs over $40,000 in Japan. 2. Nissan has already committed to placing over 2,000 Level 2 stations and over 200 Level 3 stations around the country. In addition, Nissan has engineered and built a 208V Level 3 charging station that costs significantly less than a typical 440V Level 3 charging station. Nissan is a very conservative company. Japan already is commited to the CHAdeMO Level 3 connection. There is no Level 3 connection standard in the United States. Nissan is not going to put Level 3 connections in cars sold in the US without a standard in place unless you really want it and are willing to pay for it (or you are part of The EV Project).

All that you said being true, Nissan is still being less than honest in touting their "80% charging in 25 minutes" line when most of the cars they sell at first don't come with that option and if I'm correct, can't be retrofitted with it. Not a good incentive to be an early adopter and support their risky move into this market.

 

[planet4ever]

If Nissan is reading +1 for what Boomer23 wrote about L3.

Make it +2.

I'm going to be a contrarian, and put a -1 on that. I got the impression early on that if the SAE proposal for L3 won out in the end, Nissan would replace existing connectors with the approved standard ones. Whether that impression is correct or not, I would hope that they would do the replacement at no charge for all Leafs which have an L3 connector. The best way for Nissan to limit that cost is to minimize the number of cars they sell with the "wrong" connector. And the larger their cost, the less likely they are to provide a free replacement.

 

[mwalsh]

The best way for Nissan to limit that cost is to minimize the number of cars they sell with the "wrong" connector. And the larger their cost, the less likely they are to provide a free replacement.

Well, OK. So if we buy L3 as an option, do we then get the "free" upgrade? Then the $700 price would start to make some sense.

Oh, and Nissan IS looking, I can assure you of that!

 

[Yodrak]

Observation - if L3 charging were widely available it would incent Nissan to weaken their battery warranty. The actuaries will be working overtime on that trade-off.

 

[mitch672]

The more I read/learn, the less I like the Leaf/Nissan, and the more convinced I am to just get the PICC 40-60Mile EV kit for my existing 2010 Prius.

First, EVERYONE not in the 5 rollout states is "forced" to NOT be an "early adopter", just by virture of no availability to "fall/winter 2011", this pisses me off, when it was implied we might be able to get the Leaf somewhat earlier.

That asside, now Nissan is "cheaping out", or trying to limit their exposure to having to provide SAE L3 upgrades, instead of the Japanese Chademo current standard. The point they are missing is, if you ship 30,000 or more Leafs with the Chademo L3 standard, and the EV project installed hundreds of Chademo L3 chargers, guess what? The Chademo BECOMES the Defacto L3 standard, even in the US. F the SAE and Government Motors.

Also, what everyone seems to be missing is, by elliminating the L3 port for non-EV project areas, Nissan has essentially ELLIMINATED the aftermarket high power charger market. Without a standard DC connection method, companies like ManzanitaMicro are NOT going to develop 12KW charger interfaces/kits, which could really help drivers who want to drive long distances without access to L3 chargers (only the REST of the country). You could put the ManzanitaMicro PFC-50 in the trunk, and use RV Parks along the way (or other 50A power access) to charge up at much higher power than either the crappy 3.3KW standard, or even the upgraded 6.6KW on the 2012 models... 12KW sound good, charging in a little less than 2 hours to %80? forget about it without a way to access the DC baterry pack, easliy. Could it still be done? Sure it could, but it won't happen just because of the amount of work to modify each Leaf, and the now the extremly limited market for 3rd party high power chargers.

http://www.manzanitamicro.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=42&category_id=14&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=64

Nissan, you've blown it, big time. I'm going to start calling you "GM", and I'm equating the Leaf with the EV1, since it's not going to ever be accepted by the general public, with all of the dumb decisions you've made along the way. I see no reason to even wait for the Leaf any longer, as I am no longer really interested.

 

[dallasmay]

I've been looking around the interwebs and I can't see anything that confirms this. I'm ready to call this one false. I paid the $99 reservation fee and there was nothing on the website that said that the 440v charger was anything but standard, and there is talk about the 440v charger all over the website. This would definitely be a clear instance of bait-and-switch if they didn't offer it on the base model, which would get Nissan into a lot of trouble. I seriously doubt they would take people's money without making something like that very clear.

 

[mwalsh]

I've been looking around the interwebs and I can't see anything that confirms this. I'm ready to call this one false. I paid the $99 reservation fee and there was nothing on the website that said that the 440v charger was anything but standard,

Actually, there was....for the very first people to reserve (and quite possibly only in markets where L3 charging was expected to exist) it was stated that fast charging was an additional cost option on the SL model.

Then Nissan removed all references to L3 being an additional cost option (actually all mention of it being an option at all) and we thought "Ah, good, it's going to come free on all models".

But then my source got this information at the dealers conference in Vegas last week and, while I'm still trying to verify it directly with Nissan, I'm inclined to believe it may be so.

I'm rather fond of breaking news here, not waiting to be fed crap from the Internets. Think of me as the National Enquirer of mynissanleaf.com.