The worlds first Hybrid Leaf

[leafme]

Piss poor mileage, and it stinks too, but in a pinch it'll get you home!

Say Ingin,

Did you get this to work? Mine works but only in 2 minute cycles as the gen hunts around and the voltage swings get wider and wider until the leaf finally shuts down only to try again in another minute repeating the whole thing all over again. The gen is on the edge of being able to handle the 11.5a load but after 2 minutes the leaf does not like the voltage swings and shuts down. Dang. I gotta get it to work since I've got the eu2000i dual fueled (gas and propane - swapped in a custom carb kit which otherwise works famously). I don't want to buy a larger (or parallel) gen configuration when it's so close. I'd like to reduce the evse current to 10a and then maybe the gen will will handle it. I realize I'm reducing my charge capability of my evse but that's fine with me for what I'm getting by way of security IF I can get this to work.

Malcolm

 

[Ingineer]

Say Ingin,

Did you get this to work? Mine works but only in 2 minute cycles as the gen hunts around and the voltage swings get wider and wider until the leaf finally shuts down only to try again in another minute repeating the whole thing all over again. The gen is on the edge of being able to handle the 11.5a load but after 2 minutes the leaf does not like the voltage swings and shuts down. Dang. I gotta get it to work since I've got the eu2000i dual fueled (gas and propane - swapped in a custom carb kit which otherwise works famously). I don't want to buy a larger (or parallel) gen configuration when it's so close. I'd like to reduce the evse current to 10a and then maybe the gen will will handle it. I realize I'm reducing my charge capability of my evse but that's fine with me for what I'm getting by way of security IF I can get this to work.

Malcolm

Yes, it runs fine on my 2K with the caveat that I mentioned about the ground.

From years of experience operating these generators, when they fail to output rated power, it's usually due to a clogged air filter/dirt in the carb jets, especially the plastic one. I can't speak for your propane mod, but usually they do derate the output somewhat.

-Phil

 

[Herm]

From years of experience operating these generators, when they fail to output rated power, it's usually due to a clogged air filter/dirt in the carb jets, especially the plastic one.
-Phil

A quick blast with an automotive carb cleaner spray in the carburator (remove the air cleaner first) while its running will do wonders to clean up gasoline varnish residue and carbon. It is a good idea to use a Top Tier gasoline in a generator, one that does not leave too much residue, dont try to skimp pennies with cheap gas..

 

[ERG4ALL]

During the AZ first LEAF delivery a Nissan Engineer said that they've tried generators and the only one they had a problem with was Honda. He didn't say what the problem was and I presume that others out there are having success with them.

 

[Yanquetino]

(http://www.evnut.com/rav_longranger.htm)

You'd probably get close to 40mpg and could have unlimited range!

-Phil

You probably all know this, but my understanding is that this long ranger generator is connected to the RAV4-EV's regenerative braking circuit, precisely because it allows recharging while the vehicle is running --unlike via the charge port. If a clever entrepreneur wants to invent a similar range extender for the LEAF, I would imagine that the solution might lie there.

 

[leafme]

Say Ingin, Did you get this to work?

Yes, it runs fine on my 2K with the caveat that I mentioned about the ground. From years of experience operating these generators, when they fail to output rated power, it's usually due to a clogged air filter/dirt in the carb jets, especially the plastic one. I can't speak for your propane mod, but usually they do derate the output somewhat.

-Phil

Thanks Phil. Of course I needed to bond the neutral and ground as well. I will try cleaning it. It was a gas test using regular gas with a preservative adder (which is 2 yrs old - the adder not the gas) to support shelf life. The gas was fairly new but was from 7-11. Should I be using premium or Shell or ?

Thanks again.

Malcolm

 

[Ingineer]

Thanks Phil. Of course I needed to bond the neutral and ground as well. I will try cleaning it. It was a gas test using regular gas with a preservative adder (which is 2 yrs old - the adder not the gas) to support shelf life. The gas was fairly new but was from 7-11. Should I be using premium or Shell or ?

Thanks again.

Malcolm

I usually put Premium in there along with a stabilizer when I store my units, and make sure the take is mostly full. Even with the stabilizer, I think the fuel still loses some of it's potency. Also: be sure to drain the bowl if it's going to sit unused for more than a month. (there is an easy way to do this with a flat-blade screwdriver.)

If in doubt, drain the fuel and use fresh, it's only a gallon!

-Phil

 

[Ingineer]

You probably all know this, but my understanding is that this long ranger generator is connected to the RAV4-EV's regenerative braking circuit, precisely because it allows recharging while the vehicle is running --unlike via the charge port. If a clever entrepreneur wants to invent a similar range extender for the LEAF, I would imagine that the solution might lie there.

There is no separate "regen" circuit in the Leaf.

My reasoning for staying away from the electrical solution, is simply for emissions and efficiency. A pusher will be cleaner and use less fuel than a genset. (if implemented correctly)

It just seems wrong to me to install a smoke-belching genset to run a "green" car!

-Phil

 

[Yanquetino]

There is no separate "regen" circuit in the Leaf.

My reasoning for staying away from the electrical solution, is simply for emissions and efficiency. A pusher will be cleaner and use less fuel than a genset. (if implemented correctly)

It just seems wrong to me to install a smoke-belching genset to run a "green" car!

-Phil

Huh. The regen doesn't charge the batteries via a separate, dedicated circuit in the control box? That's weird! I am at a loss how the regen regens, then. Somehow that charge is getting into the batteries even though the vehicle is on and moving.

Yeah, I know what you mean about a polluting genset. However, I don't think that the RAV4-EV owners with those trailers use them very often at all: only when a long distance trip is really necessary. I would guess that, in those rare instances, the Kawasaki gensets belch as much --or even less-- smoke as if they rented an ICE.

Come to think of it... that's what the Volt is doing, isn't it? Which is why I have opted for a LEAF. I can't see hauling a genset inside the vehicle with me, every single day, adding complication, weight, cost, maintenance, and reducing useable space and EV range. It seems to me that, if and when a long trip is unavoidable, and if renting an ICE isn't possible, then connecting a "long ranger trailer " like this would be a better option than owning a PHEV. But that's just me, I suppose.

 

[GeekEV]

I too think it would be a nice option - for those rare long trips. A DIY Volt, if you will.

 

[Ingineer]

Huh. The regen doesn't charge the batteries via a separate, dedicated circuit in the control box? That's weird! I am at a loss how the regen regens, then. Somehow that charge is getting into the batteries even though the vehicle is on and moving.

The current path for regen is exactly the same as it is for motoring. The inverter basically just reverses the current flow, and the motor becomes a generator. There aren't any additional components to enable regen! It's simply just firmware that makes it happen.

In the Prius, if the current monitored by the battery ECU is significantly different than what the inverter thinks its using/producing, then your dashboard lights up like a christmas tree and you get DTC's (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) set that must be cleared with a scantool. This is done to cross-check the current sensors and make sure there is no current "leakage" anywhere. The Prius will tolerate about 5kW worth of error before it codes.

For the same safety reasons, I'd expect the Leaf to have similar cross-checking in it's systems. At some point I'll try this and see what happens.

-Phil

 

[johnr]

Yes, it seems to run fine with the caveat that you have to create a jumper plug that bonds ground to neutral to bypass the ground verification feature of the EVSE. If you don't do this, the EVSE will just sit there and blink it's green light. It is simple as buying a standard 120v plug (NEMA 5-15P) and putting a jumper wire in it from ground (green) to Neutral (silver/white) and plugging it into the extra outlet on the EU2000.

It will run about 4 hours on a gallon of gas giving you almost 5kWh of charge.

-Phil

Thank you for this information. Too bad I couldn't take advantage of it yesterday. I went on a group camping trip. Well we made it there but just barely. The car entered turtle mode a minute before arriving, and after parking it wouldn't start. Well, no big problem - there's someone with a generator camped just across from us. Unfortunately the EVSE would only blink, indicating a grounding error. The guy said the generator was grounded - but the charging cord didn't think so, and that's all that mattered. In the end, I had no choice but to call for a tow. Now I'm going to make a jumper plug to add to my adapter kit.

So, what if I simply take a short piece of bare wire and wrap it between the ground and neutral pins of the EVSE's own NEMA 5-15 plug? Would this work?

BTW, it seems rather odd to me that, as far as the EVSE is concerned, a lack of "proper" grounding is considered hazardous yet a shared connection between ground and neutral is considered perfectly fine - but then, I'm no EI. What exactly is the EVSE looking for in order to verify grounding, anyway?

 

[wwhitney]

So, what if I simply take a short piece of bare wire and wrap it between the ground and neutral pins of the EVSE's own NEMA 5-15 plug? Would this work?

As a practical matter, don't do it, it is too ugly. As a theoretical matter, it would probably work.

BTW, it seems rather odd to me that, as far as the EVSE is concerned, a lack of "proper" grounding is considered hazardous yet a shared connection between ground and neutral is considered perfectly fine - but then, I'm no EI. What exactly is the EVSE looking for in order to verify grounding, anyway?

The EVSE is looking for an effective fault current path, so that a hot to ground short will trip the breaker. This requires a neutral-ground interconnection, but there should be only one. For a building, there is a permanent neutral ground interconnection at the service entrance (where the utility supply wires are terminated), hence you shouldn't interconnect neutral and ground downstream of that. For a portable generator, there may be zero neutral-ground interconnections, i.e. if it provides only ungrounded GFCI protected convenience receptacles. In which case adding a single neutral-ground interconnection is the right thing to do.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[johnr]

The EVSE is looking for an effective fault current path, so that a hot to ground short will trip the breaker. This requires a neutral-ground interconnection, but there should be only one. For a building, there is a permanent neutral ground interconnection at the service entrance (where the utility supply wires are terminated), hence you shouldn't interconnect neutral and ground downstream of that. For a portable generator, there may be zero neutral-ground interconnections, i.e. if it provides only ungrounded GFCI protected convenience receptacles. In which case adding a single neutral-ground interconnection is the right thing to do.

For safety sake to protect against the possibility of high voltage buildup on the generator case, should it be earth-grounded?

Also, I'm curious about the house wiring. Since the ground and neutral are connected at the service entrance, why are they ran separately to each outlet?

 

[wwhitney]

For safety sake to protect against the possibility of high voltage buildup on the generator case, should it be earth-grounded?

As far as I know, there is no point in earthing the case of a portable generator. The electrical system in your home is earthed because (a) the electric utility uses the earth as its high voltage neutral, so the electrical system is already earthed and (b) to provide some protection against lightning strike. Neither of these apply to a portable generator.

Also, I'm curious about the house wiring. Since the ground and neutral are connected at the service entrance, why are they ran separately to each outlet?

This question is basically "why do we use a separate ground conductor, why not just bond equipment with the neutral conductor?" The main reason is that the neutral is a current carrying conductor under normal use, while the ground conductor will carry current only during a fault. Because the neutral carries current, its potential will rise somewhat above the reference earth ground. As a result you could get a small shock between neutral and ground on a circuit that is carrying current. Another advantage to the separate ground conductor is that the redundancy improves safety. In other words, more things have to fail before you will get shocked.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[rainnw]

So who is working on the portable generator buying guide? Will any of these generators run for 14-20 hours, assuming you fed it fuel, on the 1300 watt L1 load?

 

[Ingineer]

So who is working on the portable generator buying guide? Will any of these generators run for 14-20 hours, assuming you fed it fuel, on the 1300 watt L1 load?

The EU2000i seems to run L1 fine with the jumper added. I think it'll run about 4 hours at that load on a gallon.

I created this thread mainly as a joke though! I'm not sure why you'd ever want to charge L1 from a generator... 20 hours of charging using about 5 gallons of gas to drive a few hours at most?!?

-Phil

 

[johnr]

I created this thread mainly as a joke though! I'm not sure why you'd ever want to charge L1 from a generator... 20 hours of charging using about 5 gallons of gas to drive a few hours at most?!?
-Phil

I can certainly see the joke here - but there are actually times in an emergency when this would come in handy. Just last week, stranded in the middle of nowhere, I seriously would have welcomed a couple hours on a generator. A fellow camper loaned me one but since I didn't know this grounding trick I wasn't able to use it and had to call for a tow.

 

[rainnw]

So who is working on the portable generator buying guide? Will any of these generators run for 14-20 hours, assuming you fed it fuel, on the 1300 watt L1 load?

The EU2000i seems to run L1 fine with the jumper added. I think it'll run about 4 hours at that load on a gallon.

I created this thread mainly as a joke though! I'm not sure why you'd ever want to charge L1 from a generator... 20 hours of charging using about 5 gallons of gas to drive a few hours at most?!?

-Phil

we camp out in the middle of nowhere, and taking the SUV is a bit annoying.

 

[Herm]

we camp out in the middle of nowhere, and taking the SUV is a bit annoying.

Take a couple of solar panels?. they dont take that much room.