The worlds first Hybrid Leaf

[LTLFTcomposite]

As for defeating the interlock, anyone know what happens if you plug in the charger *after* the Leaf is "turned on" ?

 

[garygid]

I think it has been said that the car must be OFF for charging to start.

However, while charging, can the car be in Accessory mode (to play audio, fuss with the NAV system, watch the SOC and Temperature display, use interior lights to read, etc.)?

 

[Ingineer]

As for defeating the interlock, anyone know what happens if you plug in the charger *after* the Leaf is "turned on" ?

If the car is already on, (ready) it will not charge until you turn it off. Once charging has begun, you can power up the car again and use everything inside, but it will not go ready. If you attempt to shift into D, the car drops to N.

-Phil

 

[daniel]

Piss poor mileage, and it stinks too, but in a pinch it'll get you home!

So will a tow truck. Get you home, that is. While a true range extender might appeal to a person who wants to drive farther than 100 miles and does not mind much worse mileage and pollution than a conventional car, this little portable charger would take longer to get you home than it would take a tow truck to reach you. A better idea would be a folding bicycle in the trunk. Of course, if you know you need to go farther than the Leaf's range, you're better off driving a gas car, even if you have to rent one for the purpose. And for emergencies, a cell phone (or a CB or ham radio if you don't have cell coverage) will be much easier than a portable generator and its accompanying gas fumes.

If the OP was intended as a joke, I apologize. Very humorous.

 

[Deleted member 770]

(http://www.evnut.com/rav_longranger.htm)

You'd probably get close to 40mpg and could have unlimited range!

-Phil

I'm sure you're aware that this last item is not a "pusher" trailer, but what I've been advocating...a range-extending generator trailer. But I got shot down, so I'll drop back into the woodwork now...

 

[Ingineer]

(http://www.evnut.com/rav_longranger.htm)

You'd probably get close to 40mpg and could have unlimited range!

-Phil

I'm sure you're aware that this last item is not a "pusher" trailer, but what I've been advocating...a range-extending generator trailer. But I got shot down, so I'll drop back into the woodwork now...

A pusher seems to make more sense, and is a much easier to implement. The interfacing and technical challenges of implementing a generator, not to mention keeping it clean/quiet are difficult. Even if you did a generator, the cheapest and most efficient (and cleanest) generator I can think of is a Prius transaxle, and if you are going to put one behind your Leaf, why not just let the mechanical part hit the road directly instead of incurring the double conversion loss and complexity of interfacing to the Leaf HV system?

-Phil

 

[nater]

Ingineer, did you say the EU2000 gives off gasoline odor in the car?

Nate

 

[qcar]

On the Honda 2000- I use that to charge and extend the range on my sailboat's battery pack. Most of us eboaters have these for emergencies. They put out 1600 watts 120V at about 13amps and it would take all day to charge my 320AH 48 volt LifePO battery pack on my boat. I can limp along at a knot or so running directly from the generator as well. My boat is 27,000 lb full keel monster and I have two ganged 180amp motors pushing it along.

Boat 15KW Battery Pack- 400lbs - takes all day to charge
Leaf 24KW Battery Pack- 600lbs -all day and night same as 120v/15amp household charger.

And while I don't think I need to say it....don't run a generator in an enclosed space like your car.....my boat has a deck that works wonderfully for this purpose....

 

[Ingineer]

Ingineer, did you say the EU2000 gives off gasoline odor in the car?

Nate

The EU2000i has a lever on the gas cap that seals the tank, so if this closed and the generator is cold, it doesn't emit any noticeable odors. Obviously if you attempt to run the thing in your car, it will very rapidly fill the car with fumes and carbon monoxide, so don't do this!

Experience shows that you need to allow about 10 minutes minimum after running the generator before you put it inside a car to avoid a smell.

-Phil

 

[Herm]

One of these semi-portable diesel gensets would work out quite well, has 18 gallons of diesel built in.

http://www.auroragenerators.com/products/diesel-generators/10-kva-diesel-generator-enclosed

Then you would need a 10kw 220VAC to 380VDC (or something like that) constant voltage inverter, preferably with adjustable output .. you make a removable temporary plug harness for the connection to the Leaf's battery, like the Enginer kit but without a large battery pack in the back of your Prius. The genset can also be used to run your home during an emergency. Build a small trailer to fit the skid, 12" wheels are fine.

 

[Electric4Me]

A pusher seems to make more sense, and is a much easier to implement. The interfacing and technical challenges of implementing a generator, not to mention keeping it clean/quiet are difficult. Even if you did a generator, the cheapest and most efficient (and cleanest) generator I can think of is a Prius transaxle, and if you are going to put one behind your Leaf, why not just let the mechanical part hit the road directly instead of incurring the double conversion loss and complexity of interfacing to the Leaf HV system?

-Phil

I've always like the idea of a pusher ever since I saw JB's 944 project. However, this would be one more thing to store around the house...

 

[Ingineer]

One of these semi-portable diesel gensets would work out quite well, has 18 gallons of diesel built in.

http://www.auroragenerators.com/products/diesel-generators/10-kva-diesel-generator-enclosed

Then you would need a 10kw 220VAC to 380VDC (or something like that) constant voltage inverter, preferably with adjustable output .. you make a removable temporary plug harness for the connection to the Leaf's battery, like the Enginer kit but without a large battery pack in the back of your Prius. The genset can also be used to run your home during an emergency. Build a small trailer to fit the skid, 12" wheels are fine.

It's not this simple:

1. You don't know for sure if you can just "tap in" and not set codes in the Leaf. (I think this is harder than you suspect!)
2. 10kW is not enough to sustain highway speeds, let alone sustain and recharge, I'd say a bare minimum is 15kW, and 20kW would be advisable.
3. Even at 10kW a charger/power supply in this range @ 400v is still not cheap or simple!
4. Even at 50mph (which is probably the most you can expect from 10kW), your mileage will likely be well below 20mpg.

A pusher is less complex, and avoids the conversion loss, and is already emissions legal to operate on the highways. (Gensets have abysmal emissions performance!)

It will likely be much quieter as well!

-Phil

 

[hill]

TAnother Option:
If another (probably ICE) vehicle would be a willing "donor", an hour's "transfusion" using an inverter might be a reasonable solution.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . snip
But, other than the problem of finding a willing donor vehicle to "suckle" from, toting the inverter is a lot cleaner than toting gasoline.

Rather than an ICE donar car, I'd rather carry an "auxiliary" pack . . . as though that's not already in the works.

 

[Ingineer]

TAnother Option:
If another (probably ICE) vehicle would be a willing "donor", an hour's "transfusion" using an inverter might be a reasonable solution.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . snip
But, other than the problem of finding a willing donor vehicle to "suckle" from, toting the inverter is a lot cleaner than toting gasoline.

Rather than an ICE donar car, I'd rather carry an "auxiliary" pack . . . as though that's not already in the works.

An auxiliary pack can only extend your range somewhat, it can't give you unlimited mileage as a pusher could.

Most of the time I put on a minimum of 400 miles a day when on a long roadtrip. If I could do this, and recharge overnight, then maybe.

-Phil

 

[AndyH]

A small Wankel running on H2, CNG, or ammonia.

Or...a very lightweight aero trailer full of LiPo and some solar panel laminates on a fold-out rack. Probably better if we bring camping gear as well.

 

[hill]

Piss poor mileage, and it stinks too, but in a pinch it'll get you home!

So will a tow truck. Get you home, that is. While a true range extender might appeal to a person who wants to drive farther than 100 miles and does not mind much worse mileage and pollution than a conventional car, this little portable charger would take longer to get you home than it would take a tow truck to reach you. A better idea would be a folding bicycle in the trunk. Of course, if you know you need to go farther than the Leaf's range, you're better off driving a gas car, even if you have to rent one for the purpose. And for emergencies, a cell phone (or a CB or ham radio if you don't have cell coverage) will be much easier than a portable generator and its accompanying gas fumes. . . . . . . . . . . . . snip

Call me wacky daniel - I'm thinking "extra batteries" . . . an "auxilary pack" as it were. Think of it as your EV jerry can.

EDIT:
I didn't say that very well - I should have fleshed out the thouggt by stating the purpose ... meaning "aux power". As a second car (unlike Ingineer) I'm not looking to get 400 miles down the road.

My 'concern' is for the basic emergency ... maybe you get to that public charger, and it just died. Another real world example - your screen shows !2 -15 miles range, only to find your self coasting to the side of the road. A little aux pack is always nice.

 

[Herm]

It's not this simple:

1. You don't know for sure if you can just "tap in" and not set codes in the Leaf. (I think this is harder than you suspect!)
2. 10kW is not enough to sustain highway speeds, let alone sustain and recharge, I'd say a bare minimum is 15kW, and 20kW would be advisable.
3. Even at 10kW a charger/power supply in this range @ 400v is still not cheap or simple!
4. Even at 50mph (which is probably the most you can expect from 10kW), your mileage will likely be well below 20mpg.

A pusher is less complex, and avoids the conversion loss, and is already emissions legal to operate on the highways. (Gensets have abysmal emissions performance!)

It will likely be much quieter as well!

-Phil

I dont know if it would set a code the moment you fired up the genset but in theory the system should not "see" the genset since all it does is maintain the battery voltage.

You are probably right that 10kva would not be enough for 55mph, so perhaps 15kva.. in any case this serves double duty as a full house genset, the pusher only does one thing, and its bulky.. the trailer can even be used for other things. A gasoline powered unit would be much lighter.

This particular one consumes 265g diesel/kw per hour, at full rated output of 9kva it is 0.75 gallons per hour.. 9kw will run a Tesla Roadster at about 47mph, so the economy would be about 63mpg. Assume the inverter is 100% efficient.

Obviously its a kludge and CARB would never allow it, perhaps something better could be designed. Dealers need these trailers to self-ferry the Leafs around.

 

[garygid]

With the right "pusher" attachment for the rear of the LEAF, almost any car could be the "pusher" for emergencies.

However, most likely a "puller" attachment would be easier to construct.

For range extending, a "pusher" could be the front end (plus a gas tank) of almost any front-wheel-drive car.

 

[hill]

It's not this simple:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . snip
2. 10kW is not enough to sustain highway speeds, let alone sustain and recharge, I'd say a bare minimum is 15kW, and 20kW would be advisable.
3. Even at 10kW a charger/power supply in this range @ 400v is still not cheap or simple!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . snip
-Phil

Man - what would the WEIGHT be on a 400v ac/dc power supply. Our cisco 240V is over 200 pounds, so that'd likely be serious weight.

 

[Ingineer]

Man - what would the WEIGHT be on a 400v ac/dc power supply. Our cisco 240V is over 200 pounds, so that'd likely be serious weight.

That's because that power supply is a 60hz iron magnetics-based unit. If you are going to run a genset, the easiest way is to use a 3-phase genhead with a 6-diode bridge rectifier, and then modify the voltage regulator to feed the exciter winding with variable current to regulate the DC output.

Otherwise, the next best option would be a large power-factor corrected switch-mode based power supply. One that comes to mind is the Manzanita Micro PFC-50. It weighs only a little over 30lbs and isn't too terribly bulky. However it's $3500 and not isolated, so you'd have to use caution!

Still, in order to implement any kind of DC to the Leaf safely, you are going to need to interface to the CAN bus and come up with a controller. Not impossible, but not nearly as easy as a simple mechanical-only pusher.

-Phil