The true cost of ECO

[DaveEV]

According to what I've read here from battery experts, "cycles" are not really the number of times you charge the battery, but the number of times the total battery's capacity is added to it. So, from a cycle perspective, charging twice from 50% to 80% is the same as charging once from 20% to 80%. And using more regen does add to the cycle count.

That's not true unless perhaps one is doing those shallow cycles above 80% SOC (like 70-100%). In general shallow cycles will provide give you more use out of the battery and deeper cycles. So 2x 50-80% should present less wear on the battery than 1x 20-80%. It'd probably be better if that 2x 30% SOC swing were say 35%-65% rather than 50-80% but unfortunately we're not able to do that all that easily.

Some made up example here: 2x daily 50-80% cycles might leave you with 90% capacity after 5 years, but 1x daily 20-80% cycles might leave you with 85% capacity after 5 years. There are papers published on this effect somewhere....

 

[davewill]

... So, from a cycle perspective, charging twice from 50% to 80% is the same as charging once from 20% to 80%. And using more regen does add to the cycle count. ...

Only to the extent you drive farther because regen has given you more range...and who DOESN'T want more range?

 

[UkrainianKozak]

and who DOESN'T want more range?

Well... I don't want more range I need just need enough range for me. Sometimes I need more that leaf can provide, but 95% of the time I actually need less, so I care more about overall efficiency of owning a leaf, so far regen really seems better than no regen at least below 80% SOC, as it allows to do "shallower" charges and saves you on brakes maintenance.

The only thing that I don't understand is Nissan's recommendation for avoiding topping off the battery when you are already at 80% SOC... Should I avoid regen as well in such case, and it is actually counter-intuitive for me...
If you charge from lets say 30% to 100%, the battery is already warm/hot when it is at 80%, so you continue charge of the warmer battery and add more heat above 80%, and it is fine, but when you have cold idle battery at 80% what's wrong with charging to 100% from this point? it should be better to charge colder battery than hotter one, right? So, what's the deal why Nissan is telling us that it is actually worse?

I know it sounds crazy paranoid, but I'm already crazy paranoid in eyes of many just because I bought Leaf

 

[davewill]

and who DOESN'T want more range?

Well... I don't want more range I need just need enough range for me.

If you don't use the charge created by the regen, it won't "count" as more cycling.

The only thing that I don't understand is Nissan's recommendation for avoiding topping off the battery when you are already at 80% SOC...

That isn't what the manual says. It says to avoid topping off unless you've run it down below 80%, not that you can't top up to 100% after charging to 80%. The point is to avoid cycling the battery between say 90% and 100% a bunch. For example, if you're like the little old lady from Pasadena, and only drive 5 miles a day, you should probably charge to 80% instead of 100%. That would let you cycle the battery between 70% and 80% instead of between 90% and 100%.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Yet another MNL thread full of inaccurate info, speculation and misunderstanding. ECO is not going to harm the pack or shorten the life. Putting more air in your tires will do more for pack life

 

[abasile]

The people who have steep, prolonged downgrades at the beginning of their drive (e.g., abasile) don't charge as much before the trip so they can get the energy back from regen. Abasile recently reported something like 280 Gids for a 100% charge after about a year of owning his Leaf. Of course, he has those cool mountain temperatures, but also probably puts more stress on the battery going back up the mountain 6600 feet.

Stoaty is correct.

Today we did over 10,000+ feet of net elevation gain, and of course also descended over 10,000' as the car is back in our driveway. 100+ mile days like this require some daytime charging, aided by copious regenerative braking. While we tend to drive very conservatively, we do usethe car!

We're at close to 15,500 miles, the majority in the mountains where regen is heavily used, with no signs of battery degradation yet.

 

[smkettner]

Yet another MNL thread full of inaccurate info, speculation and misunderstanding. ECO is not going to harm the pack or shorten the life. Putting more air in your tires will do more for pack life

+1 the real question is what is the cost of a thread that just spreads nonsense. :shock: :roll:

 

[Herm]

Yet another MNL thread full of inaccurate info, speculation and misunderstanding. ECO is not going to harm the pack or shorten the life. Putting more air in your tires will do more for pack life

There has to be some damage, but its probably minute... my guess you would have to do more than 400 miles worth of city driving to accumulate enough regen Wh to account for a cycle.. hypermilers will get a longer battery life