Tesla Supercharger Network

[sparky]

Today I noticed that the 60 kwh model now has Supercharging as a $2000 option at http://www.teslamotors.com/models/options" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Previously (including on the day of the announcement) it was included on that version and Musk, during the announcement mention a "nominal fee" for charging 60 kwh models.

I guess that's the "nominal fee".

Yes, and there's been some gnashing of teeth on the TMC forum about the fee as well.
Evidently it comes down to a $1k for software and $1k for hardware option. Those who already submitted their build orders for the 60kWh Model S will pay $1k for the software upgrade to allow Supercharging since Tesla may have already begun the building of those cars. $1k seems perfectly "nominal" for the hardware to me (remember the $700 LEAF QC upgrade). Not so sure about the $1k SW option. Seems like you're really just buying access with that fee. I'd probably spring for it since the feature stays with the car and improves the resale.

 

[DaveEV]

Some of the supercharger stations will also have on-site battery storage as well - not sure which ones.

Previously (including on the day of the announcement) it was included on that version and Musk, during the announcement mention a "nominal fee" for charging 60 kwh models.

Originally, 60 kWh supercharging was TBD - then the hardware was included to avoid delaying any 60 kWh orders who were finalizing their order - then it was a $2k fee to any further orders and half price, $1k, for anyone already locked in but they had to decide in a week to avoid delaying their order. The latest development (after a large amount of complaining on the teslamotorsclub forums) is that any 60 kWh cars which have been "locked in" will now have the option included for free, but any other orders will have to pay the $2k. There's still people complaining that since it's unknown how long it will be before superchargers are installed in their area, they want the option to enable supercharging later or to be able to pay-as-you-go. Don't forget all the roadster/40 kWh owners who want HPCs to be installed along the superchargers, too, so they aren't left out.

 

[grommet]

My Tesla contact says none of them have initial plans for local energy storage via battery. Of course, you can spin it to "it's being planned" or "we can do it in the future."

 

[GRA]

Some of the supercharger stations will also have on-site battery storage as well - not sure which ones.

Previously (including on the day of the announcement) it was included on that version and Musk, during the announcement mention a "nominal fee" for charging 60 kwh models.

Originally, 60 kWh supercharging was TBD - then the hardware was included to avoid delaying any 60 kWh orders who were finalizing their order - then it was a $2k fee to any further orders and half price, $1k, for anyone already locked in but they had to decide in a week to avoid delaying their order. The latest development (after a large amount of complaining on the teslamotorsclub forums) is that any 60 kWh cars which have been "locked in" will now have the option included for free, but any other orders will have to pay the $2k. There's still people complaining that since it's unknown how long it will be before superchargers are installed in their area, they want the option to enable supercharging later or to be able to pay-as-you-go. Don't forget all the roadster/40 kWh owners who want HPCs to be installed along the superchargers, too, so they aren't left out.

So the effective price difference for new orders for the 85kWh instead of the 60 kWh is now down to $8,000. Unless you're really straining to afford the 60, it's pretty hard to justify not ponying up the extra cash for the 85. $1k for the software? Come on!

 

[grommet]

It's $2K for the activation ("software"), not $1K as mentioned above. The hardware is already included.

 

[palmermd]

Some of the supercharger stations will also have on-site battery storage as well - not sure which ones.

Previously (including on the day of the announcement) it was included on that version and Musk, during the announcement mention a "nominal fee" for charging 60 kwh models.

Originally, 60 kWh supercharging was TBD - then the hardware was included to avoid delaying any 60 kWh orders who were finalizing their order - then it was a $2k fee to any further orders and half price, $1k, for anyone already locked in but they had to decide in a week to avoid delaying their order. The latest development (after a large amount of complaining on the teslamotorsclub forums) is that any 60 kWh cars which have been "locked in" will now have the option included for free, but any other orders will have to pay the $2k. There's still people complaining that since it's unknown how long it will be before superchargers are installed in their area, they want the option to enable supercharging later or to be able to pay-as-you-go. Don't forget all the roadster/40 kWh owners who want HPCs to be installed along the superchargers, too, so they aren't left out.

So the effective price difference for new orders for the 85kWh instead of the 60 kWh is now down to $8,000. Unless you're really straining to afford the 60, it's pretty hard to justify not ponying up the extra cash for the 85. $1k for the software? Come on!

This is not exactly true. Tesla thought they were doing a favor by allowing the early purchasers a discount since they ordered the car before anything was finalized. But because they did not have enough information on earlier published data, purchasers thought it was a rip off and they were guessing why they had to pay $1000 when they thought it was included. So Tesla has now decided that all the people who already had an order in progress do not have to pay anything, it is included fully, but those who finalize their order from now on will pay the $2000 access fee for lifetime transferrable Supercharger access. Nice of Tesla to recognize that people's expectations were not the same as their intentions, so they moved to match the customers expectations.

 

[GRA]

So the effective price difference for new orders for the 85kWh instead of the 60 kWh is now down to $8,000. Unless you're really straining to afford the 60, it's pretty hard to justify not ponying up the extra cash for the 85. $1k for the software? Come on!

This is not exactly true. Tesla thought they were doing a favor by allowing the early purchasers a discount since they ordered the car before anything was finalized. But because they did not have enough information on earlier published data, purchasers thought it was a rip off and they were guessing why they had to pay $1000 when they thought it was included. So Tesla has now decided that all the people who already had an order in progress do not have to pay anything, it is included fully, but those who finalize their order from now on will pay the $2000 access fee for lifetime transferrable Supercharger access. Nice of Tesla to recognize that people's expectations were not the same as their intentions, so they moved to match the customers expectations.

Note the bolded word. $8,000 for 25kWh? Sign me up! (if the S wasn't totally out of my price range or size requirements).

 

[cwerdna]

Some of the supercharger stations will also have on-site battery storage as well - not sure which ones.

Previously (including on the day of the announcement) it was included on that version and Musk, during the announcement mention a "nominal fee" for charging 60 kwh models.

Originally, 60 kWh supercharging was TBD - then the hardware was included to avoid delaying any 60 kWh orders who were finalizing their order - then it was a $2k fee to any further orders and half price, $1k, for anyone already locked in but they had to decide in a week to avoid delaying their order. The latest development (after a large amount of complaining on the teslamotorsclub forums) is that any 60 kWh cars which have been "locked in" will now have the option included for free, but any other orders will have to pay the $2k. There's still people complaining that since it's unknown how long it will be before superchargers are installed in their area, they want the option to enable supercharging later or to be able to pay-as-you-go.

Interesting. I only went by what was on http://www.teslamotors.com/models/options" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the day of the announcements and in the days following. It was always Supercharging included on the 60 kwh models until some unknown point (to me) afterward.

 

[FalconFour]

OK, so... regarding the LEAF relative to the Supercharger "craze" online. Yeah, the phallic monolith is kinda becoming a "green meme" in the ESL circles beating their chests over OMG free energy and electric cars and drool and... :roll:

Tesla to CHAdeMO.

So far the only limitation I've seen is an Apple-esque DRM-style lockout on the interface owned by Tesla. That's the ONLY barrier I can see to making a Tesla-to-CHAdeMO active inline adapter for the Superchargers to work with LEAFs and MiEVs. The nature of any DC charger, as has been mentioned before, is that they must be able to vary their output in order to work as a charger. So the active adapter should be able to simply adapt the directions from the LEAF's charging hardware (on the QC plug, which as I've gathered is a derivative of the CAN bus) to Tesla control commands that make the LEAF appear to be a Tesla.

It also means Tesla is absolutely full of crap saying the Superchargers won't work with their smaller batteries. Absolute crap. Probably only because the small battery options can't reliably reach between their Supercharger locations with their range, and would increase the "resolution" they would need to space the stations in order to cover the U.S. in a larger scheme. That's the only reason I can think of...

So, in order to really be excited about Superchargers (which - to be clear - I'm NOT), Tesla needs to be willing to license third-party adapters with access to the protocol. Then, it's a done deal... Tesla-to-CHAdeMO, and we can ALL benefit from Tesla's revolutionary step.

 

[mwalsh]

Radar operator: "I don't know sir, but it looks like a giant --"
Jet Pilot: "Dick! Dick, take a look out of starboard"
Co-pilot: "It looks like a huge--"
Bird watching woman: "Pecker!"

 

[mitch672]

Yeah, Tesla is deploying the SuperCharger network for very specific reasons, to allow cross country travel on their 2 larger models. They have ZERO interest in charging Leafs and iMEVs, the Model S is the only EV capable of being driven in similar amount of time as an ICE car long distances, that's the "revolution"

The SuperCharger itself consists of (12) 10KW Model S chargers, same ones used in the cars, they are ganged together, and where to designed to be stackable. Again, they are designed to the Model S's battery chemistry and charging protocol.

It's also a unique benefit to attract Model S customers (free road trip fuel for life), they really have a unique advantage with this, that they are not interested in giving to other EV manufacturers at this time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/automobiles/on-an-electric-highway-charging-into-the-future.html?_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Quotes:

“The one big holdout with most E.V.’s today is that you can’t take a road trip,” said J B Straubel, Tesla’s chief technical officer. “What happens if I want to go across the country? I can’t tell you how many times we get that question.”

Mr. Straubel said he saw the high-speed chargers as “the final piece of the whole technology suite” enabling Tesla to “take on an enormous part of the market we couldn’t reach before.”

The Supercharger is clever in its construction. It starts with the same 10-kilowatt charger that is onboard every Model S. To build the Supercharger, the company strings together 12 of the same units, which were designed from the beginning as building blocks.

“It’s good modular engineering,” Mr. Straubel said. “We configured all the circuitry, the power and the communications so we can just stack them up.”

Each Supercharger can serve two cars, and most locations will have three units. With solar panels planned for many locations, operating costs are expected to remain low, perhaps explaining the free recharges.

 

[FalconFour]

That's nice and all, but electricity is still electricity, current flow is still current flow, and through those pins on that plug, anything can be accomplished if the power going through it is DC current. It's foolish to think Tesla's words can change engineering facts. The chargers might be "stacked" and "modular" - but that just means to us that they run power in parallel - big, huge, massive "whoop-dee-doo". Zero effect on the engineering facts other than that the protocol would need to emulate characteristics of the car that the chargers are looking for.

But for Tesla to be so deceptive about their wording as to imply that there's something electronically "special" about how their charging interface works, leads me to believe they won't license any third-party adapters that would be fully capable of safely charging another car with their units.

What a crock. They'll gladly leech off the existing J1772 stations that were put in place to service all EVs, providing a Tesla-branded adapter to convert J1772 to their proprietary plug, but take their proprietary charging stations and try to use them with another standard? Ooooh, hell hath no fury like a PR stunt!

I still don't buy it.

In fact it gives me a much LOWER opinion of Tesla, knowing the engineering behind their PR stunt. They are FULLY capable of using their Superchargers to enable practically all lithium-based EVs on the road to go cross-country - or at least utilize their stations for a nominal fee, or SOMETHING - and yet they basically refuse in order to sell more of their own model EVs. I love the Model S. I've still got the pamphlet sitting on the shelf in front of me. Tesla is revolutionary - they brought the EV revolution to life single-handedly. They are the reason I'm driving a LEAF today. But what in the hell is up with this holier-than-thou marketing stunt of only allowing Tesla cars to use the "final piece" of the EV puzzle?! Just leaving us all out to dry in a big monopoly? Ugh. Seriously, it makes me sick.

 

[mitch672]

It's called "competition". In case you hadn't noticed, Tesla is NOT Nissan or GM.

They only sell EVs, if their EV fails, the company goes out of business, end of story.
They just had a secondary stock offering, they could have been dangerously low on cash, they are struggling to mfr the Model S and become profitable.

They don't make a bunch of ICE cars that can cover up their mistakes and fund the company.
They are also a startup, they've only been in business a few years, the Model S is their first ground up EV.
They NEED every competitive advantage they can get now.

They are not even competiting with the Leaf and iMEV, they are hardly on their radar, they are competing with high end ICE cars, BMW 7 series, Mercedes, etc.

If you don't like it, don't buy one. They are the only truly serious EV manufacturer to challenge the ICEs dominance, let them work their mission, if they are successful, it will light a fire under the traditional car manufacturers, it'll be a wake up call, long overdue, and everyone will benefit with longer range, lower cost EVs.

 

[FalconFour]

It'll also make property owners, city governments, and places of business a little more complacent in their "green spending" on charging stations and EV infrastructure. Oh, but they have those Superchargers everywhere now, we don't need to spend money anymore, yay Tesla. I love that Tesla did the Supercharger thing. But the part missing from that explanation of "Tesla needs to sell cars" is this: if they let other manufacturers use their chargers, they get brand recognition like BMW, people see their cars, and those that want to own one will buy one. More people will see them if EVs are ALLOWED TO EXIST.

And if Tesla is telling other EV owners to go *fmmp* themselves, by saying "sure I'll use yours, but no you can't use mine", EVs are going to be divided. Tesla can use all "ours", but we can't use "theirs"? I knew putting a proprietary plug on Tesla's first mass-produced and 100% in-house car was a bad idea from the start. "No good can come from this..."

 

[Phoenix]

But I gotta say Nissan has fallen behind in its EV commitment by NOT putting out their CHAdeMO units as fast as Tesla put out their superchargers. More power to Tesla for its foresight. Free supercharging for life has gotten me to think more seriously about the Model S. Unfortunately, still too big of a car for our needs.

 

[mitch672]

They are selling their drive train technology and manufacturing it for the Toyota RAV4EV, albeit only 2,600 over 3 years, but that's a Toyota decision.

They are working with other mfrs as well on drive train technology, they buy parts from other mfrs as well.
Tesla will be a household name within a few years, if they succeed.

Facts are the SuperCharger network sites are spaced out too far apart from each other for ANY other current mfrs. EVs anyway, so it's a moot point to even argue with you on this. They don't want the SC network being used for local driving anyway, but they won't stop a Model S from doing that, it's just not what the network is being built for.

Tesla has a better way, there job is to now to prove it, time will tell.

 

[DaveEV]

It's $2K for the activation ("software"), not $1K as mentioned above. The hardware is already included.

Hardware was only "included" on the 60 kWh cars that were locked in before the SC announcement. For all future orders it's $2k which includes both hardware, software, testing and unlimited access.

And if Tesla is telling other EV owners to go *fmmp* themselves, by saying "sure I'll use yours, but no you can't use mine", EVs are going to be divided. Tesla can use all "ours", but we can't use "theirs"? I knew putting a proprietary plug on Tesla's first mass-produced and 100% in-house car was a bad idea from the start. "No good can come from this..."

It is what it is. If you don't like it - don't buy their car. Tesla on the whole has been a very positive influence towards promoting EVs.

The more plug-ins that get on the roads that can use the infrastructure that's out there (J1772 and CHAdeMO), the better - since most of these stations are moving towards some sort of pay model, if a Tesla owner wants to pay - good on them.

And it's very likely that they will if they ever need to top off near a destination. Superchargers aren't going to be placed in locations where one will necessarily want to spend much time - never mind that most of them will remain inaccessible for most EVs due to their location.

 

[grommet]

Hardware was only "included" on the 60 kWh cars that were locked in before the SC announcement. For all future orders it's $2k which includes both hardware, software, testing and unlimited access.

Honestly, Tesla is starting to irritate me... with the story changing constantly, including the information & misinformation from their employees. Good times. Just last week they told me directly that all 60 kWh cars would have the hardware, but you'd need to "activate" it for a yet undisclosed fee. But now they are really deleting the hardware, and you need to option it at order time?

 

[DaveEV]

Honestly, Tesla is starting to irritate me... with the story changing constantly, including the information & misinformation from their employees. Good times. Just last week they told me directly that all 60 kWh cars would have the hardware, but you'd need to "activate" it for a yet undisclosed fee. But now they are really deleting the hardware, and you need to option it at order time?

Just starting? If those things are only issues for you now, you weren't paying attention during the Roadster launch saga, were you? The Model S rollout has gone fabulously smooth in comparison.

 

[mwalsh]

Just starting? If those things are only issues for you now, you weren't paying attention during the Roadster launch saga, were you?

Yeah! Kind of annoyed me when the company was basically stolen from Eberhart and Tarpenning. But then I'm more sensitive about douchery than the average guy.