Shocked by Nissan Leaf

[Nekota]

Hi Topaz,

I hope your arm is better and no lasting damage is done. I have been shocked many times - I grew up on a farm and had most of them from electric fence chargers and spark plug discharges - those spark plugs were the worst! Shocks from 240V AC are really at 120V since the neutral and ground are at 0 volts and the 240 volt is referenced to the other line which is 180 degrees out of phase with the other line. Or think of one leg of 240 volts is at +120 while the other leg is at -120 . Now if you grab one wire of the 240 in each hand then you will have 240 across your arms and 120 across your legs to earth. The sensation of 120 V is a combination of burning (hot) and muscle contraction/stress. In my case I could not turn loose until the fellow who plugged in the ungrounded tool (I had complained about getting minor shocks and unplugged it) I was working on unplugged me and while I remained conscious, I could not move. There was a big safety meeting the next day on that construction site!

Another electrical shock you may be experiencing could come from a pinched nerve like your funny bone type of response. I mention this because I have such a nerve in my foot and sometimes pressure on it creates a similar burning and tingling sensation - but if you are wearing a rubber glove and don't get this sensation, it's probably not the problem.

I would recommend you to ask the electrician to check the performance of the GFI or ground fault interrupt protection. As Ingineer mentions, this is the protection method and does not depend on a working ground.

Another question is the conductivity of the socket on the LEAF that the latch goes into. I thought this socket was an insulator material and the latch is on the outside of the socket shell.

Finally, I hope your electrical systems check out okay and this can be explained/tested by your electrician and put your mind and arm at ease.

 

[topaz420]

And get an outlet tester

Used this tester, plugged it in, pressed the button and it tripped the GFCI (as it's supposed to) and no lights - so the outlet is all good?

 

[smkettner]

Usually the two yellow illuminate when all is good. But I cannot read the diagram. GFI tripped and the lights go out means power was cut as expected.

I believe if you were actually shocked by the 120v power as you describe the GFI would have tripped.

 

[Nubo]

And get an outlet tester

Used this tester, plugged it in, pressed the button and it tripped the GFCI (as it's supposed to) and no lights - so the outlet is all good?

Didn't it come with instructions?

You're supposed to check the wiring first. If it fails the wiring needs to be fixed. You only test the GFCI after the wiring checks "correct". Once you trip the GFCI there's no circuit there to test.

http://www.gardnerbender.com/~/media/inRiver/322110-13399.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Valdemar]

I believe if you were actually shocked by the 120v power as you describe the GFI would have tripped.

Depends on the path of the electric current. GFI trips when it senses current imbalance between hot/neutral, such as when the current starts flowing through the body to a metal pipe/ground and not all of it returns to neutral. If the body completes the circuit between the hot/neutral GFCI terminals normally and there is no leakage to ground, i.e. there is no ground fault, it won't trip.

 

[MikeD]

So I gather from his just previous post topaz420 is saying the circuit in question is protected by a GFCI, which I think would have to be either at the receptacle he plugs the EVSE into, another GFCI receptacle on the same circuit upstream from that receptacle, or by a GFCI circuit breaker for that circuit. This would be in addition to the GFI protection provided by the EVSE. And yet he still got shocked at the J1772 plug, he thinks.

BTW all homeowner GFCI devices that I have ever seen provide its own testing button (except for EVSEs -- there may be others).

 

[dm33]

You're supposed to check the wiring first. If it fails the wiring needs to be fixed. You only test the GFCI after the wiring checks "correct". Once you trip the GFCI there's no circuit there to test.

This.

To test, plug it in, the two yellow lights should come on. Anything other than that is a fault. Testing the GFCI is second separate test.

What did the electrician say?

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Well, what did the electrician say? The suspense is killing me.

If you take the car in to a dealer, remember the L1, they should test it too.

 

[keydiver]

Used this tester, plugged it in, pressed the button and it tripped the GFCI (as it's supposed to) and no lights - so the outlet is all good?

From what I can read on the front of the tester, all 3 yellow lights should light if the outlet is wired correctly. Is that what happened?
Can you also explain a little more in detail where both of your hands were when you got shocked? It usually takes 2 points of contact to complete a circuit, unless you were bare footed on a wet floor. Do you remember the incident well enough to give more details on exactly what you were doing that lead up to the shock?

 

[topaz420]

Well, what did the electrician say? The suspense is killing me.

If you take the car in to a dealer, remember the L1, they should test it too.

Electrician just left - ground, voltage, GFCI all tested fine on the outlet

So now it's down to either the car itself, the L1, or a pinched nerve?

I've tried holding the receptable (not plugged into anything) to try to replicate the pinched nerve effect but haven't been able to as of yet

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Did the electrician plug the car in and test the handle for shocks? I would have thought he'd try to re-create the event.

 

[MikeD]

topaz420: Did the electrician try to verify that the receptacle (GFCI?) that you plugged into is the only one on the circuit? Did he express a theory of his own as to what may be happening?

 

[topaz420]

Did the electrician plug the car in and test the handle for shocks? I would have thought he'd try to re-create the event.

I wish one of us had thought of that, but we didn't

I won't be able to visit the dealer until next week to have them look at the charger/car

 

[topaz420]

Nissan kept the EVSE and gave me a replacement one - the issue has not happened since

So the mystery remains unsolved for me, but has passed on to Nissan's capable hands...

 

[XeonPony]

As has been hinted at, if you get a shock from the metal button, there still has to be a second contact. Electricity flows from one place to another. Bare feet on the ground, arm touching the car, whatever. Knowing the other point of contact would help.

This is a rare event. This just means we can't make much use of prior experience, or "how things are supposed to be designed" to resolve it.

One thing I don't think has been mentioned is that the way the EVSE works, no power is supplied to the cord until you plug the J1772 in and the EVSE completes its tests. You verified this somewhat by saying "It doesn't seem to happen until..."

It seems the only reasonable explanation would have been a stray connection to that button after everything is plugged in and charging. But of course ingineer has shown this to be nearly impossible. Though, if it happened to him, that would probably be the first thing he would disassemble. What I'd like to know is, if the GFCI would really trip if you drew a few milliamps off the circuit after it has started charging. I've never had experience with them beyond tripping when they shouldn't. I'll just add a soapbox comment. We pay a lot of money, and have to jump through a lot of hoops just to get a charging station set up. After all that, I expect it to protect us; otherwise, why bother?

I don't know of any instance where someone could detect contact with 12 volts; it's just too low. Your tongue doesn't count. By the way, DC has no "buzz", so your description of that isn't helpful in that we can't tell from that what you felt.

Real damage to yourself from electrical contact would be in the form of a burn, and you wouldn't need a doctor to tell you if you have been burned. What I think happened is you pulled a muscle when it contracted during the event.

I build solar systems, and more then once have I had a nice 12v shock with nice dry hands, not every ones skin has the same dielectric stregnth, if any of my under arms make contact while working on a 12v battery it stings and tingles like an s.o.b.!

So ya you can get a nasty feeling shock from a 12v battery or source (My dielectric strength has been weakened by lots of shocks over my years of working with power)

 

[Nubo]

Can we get the title fixed? Nobody was "shocked by Nissan Leaf".

 

[johnrhansen]

Ive been shocked by 28v ac 400 hz before changing the position lights on an md 80 back in the day. Funny thing yiu feel the tingling in your joints not in where you contacted the connection. This was on a very rainy day. I couldn't finish the job with out going upstairs and fighting my way through the boarding passengers to the flight deck to turn them off, something I should have done in the first place. Dumb kid I was back then.

 

[donald]

This was my thinking, as I mentioned above. The button lever activates a switch on the 12V proximity circuits, does it not? So a fault with that switch might be putting 12V onto it.

I don't think the shock was at a high voltage, else I think the OP would have been a bit more 'excitable' about the issue. So that leaves an interaction with the proximity/signalling circuits.

 

[chris1howell]

This was my thinking, as I mentioned above. The button lever activates a switch on the 12V proximity circuits, does it not? So a fault with that switch might be putting 12V onto it.

I don't think the shock was at a high voltage, else I think the OP would have been a bit more 'excitable' about the issue. So that leaves an interaction with the proximity/signalling circuits.

Proximity is 1.5v when conneected and 3v when the button is pressed.

 

[QueenBee]

I've been shocked with 240V back when I used to live in France (in your case it was *only* 120V).

A little digression: 120 volts is actually considered *more* dangerous than 240, because it is more likely to stop the heart.

Do you have a source for that. I suspect you are misunderstanding something. A higher voltage makes it easier to get the milliamps needed to impact the heart so I don't think your statement is correct. You might be thinking that a higher voltage means you need a lower amperage rated circuit which would make it safer but if you are relying in the circuit breaker to protect you in a shock situation you are going to be in bad shape.