Shocked by Nissan Leaf

[Nubo]

It happened when plugging in the standard Leaf 110V charger included with the car, when my thumb touched the metal latch that secures it into the vehicle

The first two times it happened it was milder and I thought it was a common static shock

The third time my entire hand felt "stuck" to the charger by the current that flowed into it - it alternated between tingly/num and pained for hours afterwards, going as far as my forearm and elbow

I don't mean to be insulting, but have you ever been shocked by 120V household current before, to know what it feels like? If so, did this feel similar or different?

Was the sensation more like a painful vibrating BUZZ, or more like a continuous sting? Were you wearing shoes or were you barefoot?

I'm still wondering about DC voltage, but also is there any possibility this could be something like a pinched nerve? Have you had that sort of problem?

 

[Ingineer]

Yes, as others have correctly pointed out, "Electrocution" means DEATH by electricity. Spewing such sensational misnomers is pure FUD.

-Phil

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Yes, as others have correctly pointed out, "Electrocution" means DEATH by electricity. Spewing such sensational misnomers is pure FUD.

-Phil

Phil, you are probably the smartest guy in the room in matters like this, can you think of a viable explanation for how this could have happened to Mr. Topaz?

 

[topaz420]

Yes, as others have correctly pointed out, "Electrocution" means DEATH by electricity. Spewing such sensational misnomers is pure FUD.

-Phil

That wasn't my intention - as I'm sure you know, it's common vernacular for this type of event and that was how I meant it - the title has since been changed

 

[donald]

Was the plug handle wet, or your hand wet or sweaty? You'd know if you'd been stung with 120V. Sounds like you might've been detecting a 12V DC circuit finding a sneak-path, which could explain why you felt it mildly before and maybe the plug had picked up some moisture and you made a good contact to get a detectable current flow through your hand at 12V.

 

[kubel]

In all my years of wiring, i've never seen a hot ground reverse. You'd have to be beyond stupid to wire a receptacle this way

I just bought a foreclosure and never worked with house wiring ever before and found an outlet wired this way. They bootlegged the ground to what they thought was neutral (not uncommon), which in fact was hot (reverse polarity). Oddly, my GFCI tester didn't detect either the reverse polarity, nor the hot ground. It said it was OK.

 

[smkettner]

OP said a special high power outlet and circuit was added with permit.
Could that really be the issue? I do hope with all the trouble it is a GFI outlet.

I fixed a bunch of those bootleg grounds in an older rental where the past tenants had swapped outlets over the years. If ground was available it was done right. No ground got an old style outlet with two prongs. Tenants now required to use proper outlets or an extension to reach a grounded outlet as needed.

 

[MikeD]

smkettner: Just to amplify to readers a little more about the danger of having "bootleg grounds", i.e. not having a third ground wire in a cable to a receptacle and just connecting the ground terminal in that receptacle to its neutral terminal: one of the big risks with doing this is if you subsequently have a "broken neutral" situation (like a neutral wire becomes loose on a receptacle terminal), then downstream from that break every neutral and every equipment ground connected to the neutral can easily become "hot" if a device on the downstream part of that circuit is attempted to be turned on. This means that, say, a device's frame which is intended to be protected from being electrically energized by being connected to the equipment ground inadvertently becomes what was designed to be prevented: electrically energized! And of course a person touching that frame could be shocked if that person is also touching a grounded or partially grounded object.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I have heard of cheating on ceiling fan installations where they use the ground wire to make the light kit on the fan switched. But you'd think if that wasn't completely isolated it would pop the breaker.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Need more info:

1. How is your hand/arm now? This happened on Wednesday?

2. You did unplug it and take it to a dealer? What happened?

3. You've been using the same plug and L1 for a 1.5 years, and just recently started to feel slight shocks until this event on Wednesday? A serious shock should be investigated immediately, but no electrician can come until Monday? You should at least shut off the breaker to that plug, in case it has deteriorated in some way.

 

[topaz420]

Need more info:

1. How is your hand/arm now? This happened on Wednesday?

2. You did unplug it and take it to a dealer? What happened?

3. You've been using the same plug and L1 for a 1.5 years, and just recently started to feel slight shocks until this event on Wednesday? A serious shock should be investigated immediately, but no electrician can come until Monday? You should at least shut off the breaker to that plug, in case it has deteriorated in some way.

1. Thanks for asking - it has subsided over the last few days - my biggest concern is how long it's been going on, and if I may have done any damage with lower-level shocks if it has been going on for longer than I have realized

2. I haven't taken it to the dealer yet - I wanted to first get the results from the electrician (I haven't driven or touched the car since Wednesday)

3. It's our family electrician who installed it and unfortunately he was booked till Monday :|

 

[Nubo]

Yes, as others have correctly pointed out, "Electrocution" means DEATH by electricity. Spewing such sensational misnomers is pure FUD.

-Phil

That wasn't my intention - as I'm sure you know, it's common vernacular for this type of event and that was how I meant it - the title has since been changed

"Shocked by LEAF" is still unsupported by any evidence at this point. You claim to have been shocked when touching the evse release trigger. The car may yet have nothing to do with it.

 

[smkettner]

3. It's our family electrician who installed it and unfortunately he was booked till Monday :|

He might be good but it gives me worry.

Black (hot) to the brass screw next to the small slot.
White (neutral) to the silver screw next to the larger slot.
Green or bare to ground.

And get an outlet tester

 

[topaz420]

3. It's our family electrician who installed it and unfortunately he was booked till Monday :|

He might be good but it gives me worry.

Black (hot) to the brass screw next to the small slot.
White (neutral) to the silver screw next to the larger slot.
Green or bare to ground.

And get an outlet tester

I didn't even think of that but you're definitely right - I should get a third-party electrician to look at that - if he was at fault in any way when installing it (if it's not deterioration) then he probably wouldn't see his own mistake

Thank you

edit: ordered the exact outlet tester in your photo, it's arriving tomorrow - thanks

 

[johnrhansen]

Any one who is licensed will connect a receptacle correctly if they are presented with the standard romex cable, black, white bare. They spend most of their required apprenticeship wiring them in. By the time they are done with all of that, they can do them in their sleep with a monster hangover. The only plausible explanation I can think of is wiring into an extremely old house with knob and tube wiring with two wires the same color, and some hack coming along later putting a 3 prong receptacle in, connecting the neutral to the ground assuming the old plug they replaced was wired in correctly. I have seen the old nema 1-15 hot and neutrals reversed, and the only way to know is to run a test wire to a known good ground, hook it to your dvm and see which wire is grounded.

 

[topaz420]

I don't mean to be insulting, but have you ever been shocked by 120V household current before, to know what it feels like? If so, did this feel similar or different?

Was the sensation more like a painful vibrating BUZZ, or more like a continuous sting? Were you wearing shoes or were you barefoot?

It was a continuous buzz - it was like when kids put their tongues on those square batteries, but about 10 times that strength

If it's a 'sneak path' of DC as someone else mentioned, could that mean it's coming from the car itself?

 

[johnrhansen]

Did you feel it in your feet too as the current was exiting your body?

 

[MikeD]

Weird Wiring 1: For some house built ~1955 (and probably a variety of owners since) I have seen wiring leading to a sub-panel for a split HVAC unit which consisted solely of the two hot phases -- no ground and no neutral. I knew there had to be a problem because the furnace had a 120v blower (!).

Sure enough, what served as a "neutral" (and "ground") for that furnace upon further investigation (using a clamp ammeter) was a casual web of coat hanger wire running from the frame of the furnace to nearby natural gas pipes! And this was in a basement area that had a problem with water leaking in after a heavy rain (simply because a downspout was emptying too close to the foundation, it turned out)!

Now I don't know if the OP has any house wiring problems, but I have noticed that in a (admittedly small) sample of houses that I have come to look at closely they all had some mis-wiring problems (the one above was by far the most egregious).

Anybody else seen "shocking" examples of wiring?

 

[topaz420]

I'm still wondering about DC voltage, but also is there any possibility this could be something like a pinched nerve? Have you had that sort of problem?

I'm not ruling that out either, as there is major nerve right at the junction between the thumb and the index finger - i will try testing that by unplugging the evse and trying to simulate the position/motion of plugging it in

Thanks

 

[gbarry42]

As has been hinted at, if you get a shock from the metal button, there still has to be a second contact. Electricity flows from one place to another. Bare feet on the ground, arm touching the car, whatever. Knowing the other point of contact would help.

This is a rare event. This just means we can't make much use of prior experience, or "how things are supposed to be designed" to resolve it.

One thing I don't think has been mentioned is that the way the EVSE works, no power is supplied to the cord until you plug the J1772 in and the EVSE completes its tests. You verified this somewhat by saying "It doesn't seem to happen until..."

It seems the only reasonable explanation would have been a stray connection to that button after everything is plugged in and charging. But of course ingineer has shown this to be nearly impossible. Though, if it happened to him, that would probably be the first thing he would disassemble. What I'd like to know is, if the GFCI would really trip if you drew a few milliamps off the circuit after it has started charging. I've never had experience with them beyond tripping when they shouldn't. I'll just add a soapbox comment. We pay a lot of money, and have to jump through a lot of hoops just to get a charging station set up. After all that, I expect it to protect us; otherwise, why bother?

I don't know of any instance where someone could detect contact with 12 volts; it's just too low. Your tongue doesn't count. By the way, DC has no "buzz", so your description of that isn't helpful in that we can't tell from that what you felt.

Real damage to yourself from electrical contact would be in the form of a burn, and you wouldn't need a doctor to tell you if you have been burned. What I think happened is you pulled a muscle when it contracted during the event.