San Francisco Bay Area Quick Chargers Getting them sooner

[DaveinOlyWA]

Do we know the financials of this?.. I'm assuming Nissan pays for the charger and install, dealership pays for the demand charges and electricity.

Nissan did imply that they will be responsible for the majority of the cost so take that to mean whatever. I also hope that Nissan will not provide an option to those dealers who have the means to provide the service. Manufacturers can (and do!) require any parameter they want to allow a dealership to sell the LEAF. I would simply make this one requirement.

as always, exceptions will be had for exceptional circumstances. but first order of business is to properly evaluate who should continue to be allowed to offer the LEAF. there are dealers now who should not be selling them

 

[OrientExpress]

Here is a photo I had posted last year of the battery pack with the Mk2 modules with the open cells.

Dave is correct, there are constant small improvements in the components of the battery pack that are put into production without any fanfare.

As far as the financial arrangements for the US Dealer/QC deployment, they are not and will not be made public.

 

[Nubo]

Yes, this batch will all be situated at Nissan dealers, and a dealers desire to be in the program is a significant criteria in the placement decision.

Because of that, I think that those of you that were hoping for a "Nut Tree" (look it up) QC experience may not be fully satisfied. Some rural Nissan dealers are not as engaged with the LEAF as others, and don't see the need, or can't justify the installation and operation of the chargers. The dealer principles are they ones that need to be sold, not Nissan....

That's too bad. Vacaville Nissan would be an ideal spot. It's mere feet from the interstate and well-placed for trips from the Bay area. It would be well-used. Not sure how the influx of traffic could not be seen as a positive. I'd put that sucker in in a heartbeat and highlight its presence so it would be quite visible from the freeway to passing motorists, EV drivers and ICE drivers alike.

 

[TonyWilliams]

If I were the Vacaville Nissan, unless they can charge for the QC service, there's not much to be gained. The folks using it will largely be from two separate major metro areas, who will likely NEVER stop for service or to purchase any car.

They would just be handing out (expensive) free electricity and losing a parking spot or two. Even if they do chargea fee for services, the income barely meets chump change status while listening to folks complain that they could Just-Drive-The-Prius(TM) cheaper.

Plus, they would no doubt have to insure it, and most importantly, REPAIR it when the $3000 Yazaki plug gets dropped / stolen / driven over.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

If I were the Vacaville Nissan, unless they can charge for the QC service, there's not much to be gained. The folks using it will largely be from two separate major metro areas, who will likely NEVER stop for service or to purchase any car.

They would just be handing out (expensive) free electricity and losing a parking spot or two. Even if they do chargea fee for services, the income barely meets chump change status while listening to folks complain that they could Just-Drive-The-Prius(TM) cheaper.

Plus, they would no doubt have to insure it, and most importantly, REPAIR it when the $3000 Yazaki plug gets dropped / stolen / driven over.

hopefully it wont be up to them so your concerns would be for naught

 

[TonyWilliams]

If I were the Vacaville Nissan, unless they can charge for the QC service, there's not much to be gained. The folks using it will largely be from two separate major metro areas, who will likely NEVER stop for service or to purchase any car.

They would just be handing out (expensive) free electricity and losing a parking spot or two. Even if they do chargea fee for services, the income barely meets chump change status while listening to folks complain that they could Just-Drive-The-Prius(TM) cheaper.

Plus, they would no doubt have to insure it, and most importantly, REPAIR it when the $3000 Yazaki plug gets dropped / stolen / driven over.

hopefully it wont be up to them so your concerns would be for naught

I don't know what this means exactly... it won't be up to whom? The dealer to accept the charger? The user to not pay for the charger service? Nissan to offer the charger there?

The "concerns" I'm expressing aren't mine, but my view of the dealer's. I suspect when offered a free but expensive charger, they offered naught.

 

[OrientExpress]

Yes, this batch will all be situated at Nissan dealers, and a dealers desire to be in the program is a significant criteria in the placement decision.

Because of that, I think that those of you that were hoping for a "Nut Tree" (look it up) QC experience may not be fully satisfied. Some rural Nissan dealers are not as engaged with the LEAF as others, and don't see the need, or can't justify the installation and operation of the chargers. The dealer principles are they ones that need to be sold, not Nissan....

That's too bad. Vacaville Nissan would be an ideal spot. It's mere feet from the interstate and well-placed for trips from the Bay area. It would be well-used. Not sure how the influx of traffic could not be seen as a positive. I'd put that sucker in in a heartbeat and highlight its presence so it would be quite visible from the freeway to passing motorists, EV drivers and ICE drivers alike.

I said the same thing to the the folks at Nissan working on this project. The challenge is that Vacaville Nissan sells next to no LEAFs, is not engaged with the EV movement, and sees no upside (i.e. selling more cars) to having a charger at their store. Granted for travelers going between the Bay and Sacramento it makes perfect sense, but that enthusiasm is not shared with that dealer.

How many of you have gone to see that Dealer, spoken to their GM or sales manager and encouraged them to join the QC network? Probably none, and that only reenforces to them that there is no need to participate.

On the other hand, a mid-point for-profit QC installation makes great sense, and is an opportunity for NRG and their eVgo business. I would recommend that all of you contact them as well.

 

[edatoakrun]

="OrientExpress"
...The challenge is that Vacaville Nissan sells next to no LEAFs, is not engaged with the EV movement, and sees no upside (i.e. selling more cars) to having a charger at their store. Granted for travelers going between the Bay and Sacramento it makes perfect sense, but that enthusiasm is not shared with that dealer...

How about at the Nissan dealerships at Fairfield or Davis?

DC at both would be even better than a single DC between Sacto and SF.

I imagine that PG&E and the City of Vacaville, by periodically promising to reopen the existing DC charger there, may be inhibiting commercial expansion.

Would you want to invest in a cheese shop, if the government had a "temporarily" closed "free cheese" outlet next door, and every few months they announced that it would be reopening, any day now?

 

[Phoenix]

I did speak to Vacaville's Nissan dealer almost two years ago asking then if they had any intentions of putting in DCQC. They hardly knew what I was referring to and mentioned that they are a small family distributorship.

Again, Nissan needs to bite the bullet and take over liability for the Vacaville Park & Ride QC for a defined period or install their spanking new one, so that there are TWO there. Then, chalk it up to improving sales of more LEAFs in the greater Bay and Sacramento area. At this point in EV development, I don't think for-profit QC station is going to be attractive yet. If Nissan wants to sell more LEAFs, it needs to put in a few more critical QC stations where it is lagging. For profits can catch up when there are enough EVs (w/ QC ports) on the road.

For Sacramento LEAFs coming to Bay Area, Vacaville may be too close, would El Cerrito off I-80 be attractive?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i think the dealership option is best for a start due to the ability to monitor and provide quicker response for repair issues.

now, despite what I said, the QC deployment will be reviewed and in the Vacaville case, it very well could be an exception. keep in mind, its all speculation right now and part of the group's focus is how to determine what is a good place and not a good place. there is a LOT of consensus that this is a good place and Nissan will know this (if they dont already and I suspect they do. the person in charge of the deployment plans is an active reader of this forum and whether she plans to address these issues with us directly here or not, its not like your comments are not known.

 

[TEG]

Tops of my personal list right now would be:

#1: Gilroy
#2: San Francisco
#3: San Jose
#4: Santa Cruz

Hopefully dealers in all those cities are getting the DC/QCs...

 

[Nubo]

If I were the Vacaville Nissan, unless they can charge for the QC service, there's not much to be gained. The folks using it will largely be from two separate major metro areas, who will likely NEVER stop for service or to purchase any car.

They would just be handing out (expensive) free electricity and losing a parking spot or two. Even if they do chargea fee for services, the income barely meets chump change status while listening to folks complain that they could Just-Drive-The-Prius(TM) cheaper.

Plus, they would no doubt have to insure it, and most importantly, REPAIR it when the $3000 Yazaki plug gets dropped / stolen / driven over.

I agree many of the users would be from other areas, but there's quite a good market within their reach; they've situated there to sell Nissan vehicles after all. With enough fanfare and promotion (FREE QUICK-CHARGE FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLES!!) visible from the freeway, they'd catch plenty of eyes from their market, raise awareness and their LEAF sales might pick up. Also existing LEAF owners tend to be from relatively well-off demographic and some of them are going to be looking for other vehicles. Feet in the showroom selling Altimas, Muranos, GT-R....

NOW how much would you pay!? :lol:

 

[edatoakrun]

i think the dealership option is best for a start due to the ability to monitor and provide quicker response for repair issues.

now, despite what I said, the QC deployment will be reviewed and in the Vacaville case, it very well could be an exception. keep in mind, its all speculation right now and part of the group's focus is how to determine what is a good place and not a good place. there is a LOT of consensus that this is a good place and Nissan will know this (if they dont already and I suspect they do. the person in charge of the deployment plans is an active reader of this forum and whether she plans to address these issues with us directly here or not, its not like your comments are not known.

Has anyone pointed out to Nissan that the existing Vacaville (defunct) DC location (at the park-and-ride) has an excellent location, already has the infrastructure for a single (or several?) DC's, is adjacent to multiple L2s for "back up", and could conceivably be up and running extremely quickly?

Isn't the main thing holding up the replacement (we are told) is that no one has given Vacaville a replacement (UL approved) DC?

 

[Electric4Me]

I imagine that PG&E and the City of Vacaville, by periodically promising to reopen the existing DC charger there, may be inhibiting commercial expansion.

Would you want to invest in a cheese shop, if the government had a "temporarily" closed "free cheese" outlet next door, and every few months they announced that it would be reopening, any day now?

Wow, that is the perfect analogy! (as I'm sure you intended) The PG&E cheese shop without any cheese!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3KBuQHHKx0[/youtube]

 

[Nubo]

I imagine that PG&E and the City of Vacaville, by periodically promising to reopen the existing DC charger there, may be inhibiting commercial expansion.

Would you want to invest in a cheese shop, if the government had a "temporarily" closed "free cheese" outlet next door, and every few months they announced that it would be reopening, any day now?

Wow, that is the perfect analogy! (as I'm sure you intended) The PG&E cheese shop without any cheese!


Lol!

"Not much of a 'Cheese Shop', is it"?
"Best in the district, Sir".
"Explain the logic underlying that assertion, pray"?
"Why, it's so clean"!
"It certainly is uncontaminated by cheese".

 

[TonyWilliams]

... With enough fanfare and promotion (FREE QUICK-CHARGE FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLES!!) visible from the freeway, they'd catch plenty of eyes from their market, raise awareness and their LEAF sales might pick up. Also existing LEAF owners tend to be from relatively well-off demographic and some of them are going to be looking for other vehicles. Feet in the showroom selling Altimas, Muranos, GT-R....

Yes, that argument is brought up over and over with LEAF drivers salivating over readily available, convenient, free transportation energy.

Unfortunately for the LEAF group, the the decision makers have wisely kept their money safe. I don't think for one second that somebody will see free charging for a LEAF and miraculously want a GT-R there, and not at their local Nissan dealer.

But, absolutely, they'll come and suck up all the free electricity they can, up to and including not charging at home to get free power at the Nissan dealer.

In addition, all the free charging will dissuade any future provider from installing anything near a free site. Fail and fail.

What might happen is that Frankenplugs might get installed, instead.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tops of my personal list right now would be:

#1: Gilroy
#2: San Francisco
#3: San Jose
#4: Santa Cruz

Hopefully dealers in all those cities are getting the DC/QCs...

Connecting all the California metro areas would be wise...

Oceanside (San Diego to LA) ... which is getting one... whoops, you didn't hear that from me!!
Oxnard (Santa Barbara to LA)
Vacaville (San Fran to Sacto)
San Bernadino (LA to Palm Springs)
Chico / Redding (all of NorCal and the West Coast Electric Highway)

 

[GRA]

Yes, this batch will all be situated at Nissan dealers, and a dealers desire to be in the program is a significant criteria in the placement decision.

Because of that, I think that those of you that were hoping for a "Nut Tree" (look it up) QC experience may not be fully satisfied. Some rural Nissan dealers are not as engaged with the LEAF as others, and don't see the need, or can't justify the installation and operation of the chargers. The dealer principles are they ones that need to be sold, not Nissan. While Nissan is carrying most of the financial responsibility in this project, the local dealers will have skin in the game too. Each and everyone of you that have a pet place where you want a charger and is close to a Nissan Dealer, you need to go to that dealer and tell them you want them to have a QC at their store and why you want them to have it there. It is truly up to all of us to make the business case to those businessmen and women.

Why would anyone waste time going to a dealer if that dealer might already be on board? Wouldn't it make far more sense to provide the list of dealers that have already agreed to install QCs, so that people can concentrate on the ones that aren't on the list (and they feel should be)? What is it with Nissan and the need to keep this all a big secret - who does it serve? Not the users, certainly.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Guy, i think some of us dont consider it a wasfe of time toreconfirmour commitment to EVs even if the dealership is already on board with the idea.

 

[cwerdna]

Why would anyone waste time going to a dealer if that dealer might already be on board? Wouldn't it make far more sense to provide the list of dealers that have already agreed to install QCs, so that people can concentrate on the ones that aren't on the list (and they feel should be)? What is it with Nissan and the need to keep this all a big secret - who does it serve? Not the users, certainly.

I agree w/the first point. For ones where installation is 99% certain, there ought to be a list that we can see, so that it's not a case of making promises they can't deliver.

This is another example where I think Nissan's communication could be a lot better.