Said goodbye to the Leaf yesterday

[thankyouOB]

dont forget that the install and removal are extra.
that costs about $3900 at today's flat rate.

I think that's an outrageous price. Have you ever quizzed them to see how they come up with that number? It should just be pure labor and even at dealership flat rate labor (let's say $150/hour), that's about 26 hours to remove and install a battery pack? If I had to pay for this out of pocket instead of through insurance, I'd tell them I want to hang around to see how they need 26 hours to complete the job.

I agree that is a lot of money, but it seems there are quite a few steps involved to get it out safely at the proper state-of-charge and without completely disrupting the other systems in the car. After reinsertion there should be a battery of tests to ensure all is in order and to reacquaint the car with the battery. Only LEAF-certified technicians can do this type of removal/replacement.

To me, another issue would seem to be storing that huge, heavy thing while the car is in the body shop..

I did quiz him, but didnt want to be too skeptical about the price.
Storage was an issue. They have special cases for the battery for storage. There are also quite a few disconnects. There was also some issue raised about it being harder than normal because the car was bent.
I am a bit skeptical, as the damage was all in the rear and only had a marginal impact on the trunk space. it pretty much was all bumper, impact shock absorber, and rear gate that were replaced, along with all their support brackets, etc.

Yes, even at $100 an hour that seemed to be a big number.

The upside? I got the Fiamm horns put in as part of the project.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

all comments made here concerning price for a module replacement should have a disclaimer on them since no one really knows what the price would be and if they did, that price is very likely to change when the supply issues have been resolved.

 

[nosuchthing]

There are 196 cells contained in 48 sealed modules. If the cost of the entire Leaf battery is, say, 10,000 bucks then cost of each module comes to $208. I don't know if that is true but that's how it calculates.

So, the question really is: does AZ TX heat kill just some of the cells within a random module or modules, or is the heat damage across the board in ALL of the modules so that one is truly screwed since the damage calls for replacement of the entire battery. Something akin to Tesla's bricking problem which sets one back $30,000 in replacement costs. (It's a bigger battery, after all.)

 

[surfingslovak]

There are 196 cells contained in 48 sealed modules. If the cost of the entire Leaf battery is, say, 10,000 bucks then cost of each module comes to $208. I don't know if that is true but that's how it calculates.

Yes, this would makes sense, but we don't have to guess. Someone from Nissan went on record in the aftermath of the Top Gear stunt last year indicating that the retail price will be around $600. Cauko

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbQ-n2Ujauo[/youtube]

 

[nosuchthing]

Which places the cost of replacing the entire battery at $28,800. That's Tesla level. It's gotta be less than that. I'd hope.

Plus, the prices are supposed to be falling, so one year can make 10-20% difference in our favor. But I'd be having 2nd thoughts buying in hot areas, even in CA, that's becoming quite obvious. Thanks for the fog (SF-BA).


Nazdar

 

[surfingslovak]

Which places the cost of replacing the entire battery at $28,800. That's Tesla level. It's gotta be less than that. I'd hope.

Yes, but as Simon said, nobody would buy 48 individual modules. If you built an entire engine out of spare parts purchased at retail prices, that would cost you a pretty penny as well. They expect that a new module or two will get most affected vehicles back on the road. If an entire replacement pack was needed, I'm sure that there will be another arrangement. If you look at the first generation of EVs, there were several choices, including battery refresh, even though few of those EVs were built and they had limited support from the manufacturer.

 

[Nekota]

I've seen numbers for the battery cost per kwhr of $400 so a module is about 500WHr and using the cost per kwhr as a basis this would price at $200 per module. For all 48 modules this would be a little less than $10,000.

 

[TomT]

At retail prices, probably so. I believe the price shown in the dealer parts manual lists the price for a module at roughly that amount. Remember that, as with any replacement car part, there is huge difference between the actual manufacturer's cost and what it sells for at retail...

Around $600 each I believe... Plus labor.

If this happened to me I'd just take it to the dealer and have them find the faulty cells and replace them at, I presume, 50-70 bucks a piece. Hopefully less.

Isn't there a 48 cells making this $28,800 for the battery?

 

[surfingslovak]

I've seen numbers for the battery cost per kwhr of $400 so a module is about 500WHr and using the cost per kwhr as a basis this would price at $200 per module. For all 48 modules this would be a little less than $10,000.

To corroborate what Tom said above: a headlight assembly for the Leaf costs nearly $1K, and the fog light is about $200. Given this context, and the press sources I quoted above, I find it doubtful that a battery module would retail for $200.

 

[SolPower]

... the true range (about 70 miles) was grossly misrepresented ...
Thats how my Leaf saga ended.

Ravi100, thanks for sharing your experience and decision process; it is helpful and you will be missed. It must be a relief to put that behind you and move on. Best of luck and much new found joy.

I must say on 4/3/12 when reading the owners manual of our new all electric Leaf SL and seeing the strong suggestion of charging to 80% all the time. It was a bump that the daily range range would be way below 100 mi. There goes the trips to San Diego and Santa Barbara. Well with a few anticipated well placed Quick Charge Stations would make it all good. Another bump, kind of expected, was that my income bracket and deductions allowed less than $2,000 of the $7,500 possible tax credit. At least some of the taxpayers would be really happy, if they knew.

Speaking of happy, Tony Williams made it from Mexico to Canada in 9 days in his Leaf. Thanks Tony for showing us how to do it. I'm staying for the fun. Where are those Quick Charge Stations anyway? Just kidding, happy trails to you all. Watch out for the bumps.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

As volumes go up, prices will fall but mostly because there will be more competition including aftermarket upgrades.
prices for battery modules in the Ford Fusion hybrid dropped more than 40% in just 3 years. Nissan will have the capacity to provide the necessary #s quickly but I fear that labor could be the big cost here

 

[thankyouOB]

nissan dealer that took out and reinstalled my battery for $3900, told me the cost of a new battery is 10k.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

nissan dealer that took out and reinstalled my battery for $3900, told me the cost of a new battery is 10k.

that's interesting. seems hard to understand why they wouldn't make it an option to use up some of that huge trunk for an optional added pack. I'd pay quite a bit for more capacity if it were an option.

 

[LEAFfan]

If this happened to me I'd just take it to the dealer and have them find the faulty cells and replace them at, I presume, 50-70 bucks a piece. Hopefully less.

When I was at about an 8% loss of capacity and the EV Systems Light came on while charging, I thought the same thing. But when each cell was checked, the tech said all were normal, just like with everyone else's. So now it seems pretty apparent that the losses are across the pack due to high, prolonged ambient heat.

 

[LEAFfan]

If it was a bad cell, it would be replaced under warranty - no? The factor that is not warrantied is "capacity loss" which shouldn't have anything to do with a "bad" cell. At least that's my understanding.

Yes, if it were a bad cell or cells, the module or modules would be replaced under warranty.
Actually, capacity loss is covered as long as it isn't gradual. Gradual loss of capacity is not covered. Most people would believe that more than a 20% loss in a year isn't gradual, but as of now, Nissan does.

 

[Herm]

nissan dealer that took out and reinstalled my battery for $3900, told me the cost of a new battery is 10k.

Thats very interesting, on a kWh basis I was expecting about $13k, and then you have to count the battery case and BMS. Supposedly with mass production Nissan can save about half of this in later years, and reduce the price when the $7500 tax credit goes away. Installation costs of $4k are outrageous.

 

[thankyouOB]

nissan dealer that took out and reinstalled my battery for $3900, told me the cost of a new battery is 10k.

Thats very interesting, on a kWh basis I was expecting about $13k, and then you have to count the battery case and BMS. Supposedly with mass production Nissan can save about half of this in later years, and reduce the price when the $7500 tax credit goes away. Installation costs of $4k are outrageous.

removal, storage and installation.

the 10k may be a bit low. I wasnt listening that closely to the cost of the battery -- that wasnt my problem and having 13k worth of work on the car was -- and he may have said 10k-14k.

 

[evnow]

I always thought it was strange that such a large # of people were buying instead of leasing. It always made sense to lease given it was a V1 product - esp. in hot places.

But, looks like you didn't spend much, finally. My guess is your monthly cost was still quite low - less than the lease cost.

 

[thankyouOB]

I always thought it was strange that such a large # of people were buying instead of leasing. It always made sense to lease given it was a V1 product - esp. in hot places.

But, looks like you didn't spend much, finally. My guess is your monthly cost was still quite low - less than the lease cost.

i never lease. it is too much of an increase over buying, and you end up back on the sales floor in three years when you are negotiating to purchase or worse, leasing another. it is even better to finance than lease.
leasing is perpetually losing, unless you can deduct the whole thing and then buying is still better with depreciation as part of your business expense.

Also, the Nissan leases didnt cover 13k miles a year without paying even more.
that is just my gut reaction to the lease, though I havent reinvestigated a lease for more than a decade. I dont see how it helps you. even the lease-to-get-the-rebate-now concept was a rip with the dealer taking about $800-1000 of it, as I recall, in some high-concept-named fee.

maybe it made sense because of the battery and new technology issues, but I rolled the dice, knowing coastal CA was an ideal spot for the Leaf.

 

[evnow]

leasing is perpetually losing, unless you can deduct the whole thing and then buying is still better with depreciation as part of your business expense.
...
... though I havent reinvestigated a lease for more than a decade. ....

Lot so threads here with information & numbers to chew on. You should check them out - leasing is just another way to finance. Don't be fooled by myths (if you just went by EV myths, you would never buy Leaf).

BTW, one of the reasons I leased was so that I can buy/lease another EV in 3 years !