SAE combo plug/Frankenplug EV/PHEV car list

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scottf200 said:
Volkswagen e-Up Electric Minicar: Forbidden Fruit For Europe Only
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1082873_volkswagen-e-up-electric-minicar-forbidden-fruit-for-europe-only" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Volkswagen e-Up will accept the European version of the new Combined Charging System (CCS) quick-charging standard, which can recharge up to 80 percent of the battery capacity in just 30 minutes.
...
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/03/14/new-volkswagen-e-up-debuts-with-93-mile-range-combined-chargin/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; includes the press release which has an ambiguous statement as to whether the Frankenplug is standard or optional.

The port for charging the battery in the e-up! is hidden behind the "fuel door". As an option, the Combined Charging System (CCS) is used, which has been standardised by Volkswagen and other carmakers. It supports both DC and AC charging, so that drivers can easily charge their cars at most charging stations – regardless of the power sources or charging rates that they offer...
 
cwerdna said:
scottf200 said:
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/03/14/new-volkswagen-e-up-debuts-with-93-mile-range-combined-chargin/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; includes the press release which has an ambiguous statement as to whether the Frankenplug is standard or optional.

... As an option, the Combined Charging System (CCS) is used...

Doesn't seem very ambiguous... it's an option. I did like the part about all the fantastic places to charge!!!
 
^^^
I originally interpreted the Frankenplug as being optional. Then, before posting, I thought of another interpretation: you can charge at L1/L2 J1772 OR have another option of using Frankenplug.
 
JeremyW said:
I like the little vw, but anything I get after this leaf needs to have quick charging, with actual quick chargers around.
Absolutely - I don't want to wait around for 2 more years for some "taste" of QC.

This is the #1 reason I'm not getting a Model S.
 
During a Tesla shareholder's call, when the SAE standard was pointed out to Elon Musk, he said "Yes, the SAE have a standard. But it sucks." Which is why TM went its own way. However, this article from March 2013 SAE article suggests that Tesla is 100% SAE compliant. Probably not a neutral source for information about a standard with so many SAE press releases and so few cars:

http://www.sae.org/mags/AEI/tools/11923" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
evnow said:
JeremyW said:
I like the little vw, but anything I get after this leaf needs to have quick charging, with actual quick chargers around.
Absolutely - I don't want to wait around for 2 more years for some "taste" of QC.

This is the #1 reason I'm not getting a Model S.

From this side of the continent, it seems likely we'll get a supercharger before we see a CHAdeMO within range of me. Tesla has promised a supercharger in Albany, NY by the end of 2013. Where are the CHAdeMOs? I cannot find anyone with plans to install them.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
From this side of the continent, it seems likely we'll get a supercharger before we see a CHAdeMO within range of me. Tesla has promised a supercharger in Albany, NY by the end of 2013. Where are the CHAdeMOs? I cannot find anyone with plans to install them.
I should make it clear - I was looking at the 40 kWh version.
 
evnow said:
GetOffYourGas said:
From this side of the continent, it seems likely we'll get a supercharger before we see a CHAdeMO within range of me. Tesla has promised a supercharger in Albany, NY by the end of 2013. Where are the CHAdeMOs? I cannot find anyone with plans to install them.
I should make it clear - I was looking at the 40 kWh version.

Fair enough. You also may need to wait two more years just to get a 40kWh Model S ;)
 
BMW and GM intend to start yet ANOTHER electric vehicle charging standard for DC quick charging. There are already two used in the USA; the proprietary Tesla "Supercharger" standard and the CHAdeMO standard which already has 160 installed (plus 1650 in Japan and 650 in Europe).

Yet another standard is not what the USA wants, needs or can afford. USA taxpayers, watch you pocketbook because GM and BMW will be demanding their new "Frankenplug" standard is paid for by YOU.

During a Tesla shareholder's call, when the SAE standard was pointed out to Elon Musk, he said "Yes, the SAE have a standard. But it sucks." Which is why TM went its own way. However, this article from March 2013 SAE article suggests that Tesla is 100% SAE compliant. Probably not a neutral source for information about a standard with so many SAE press releases and so few cars. Tesla intends to offer a CHAdeMO adapter in the future.

http://www.sae.org/mags/AEI/tools/11923" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Frankenplug Cast Members:

1. Audi - June 3, 2012 - cancels EV plans http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1076657_audi-cans-electric-a2-city-car-a1-e-tron-report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2. BMW - i3, Fall 2013/Early 2014 - these guys are the only ones of any of the Frankenplug consortium to have a serious EV program, that goes beyond just meeting California Air Resources Board ZEV standards.

http://www.bmw-i.com/en_ww/bmw-i3/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; [no specific mention of Frankenplug, but it is widely known that is their intention. Also, it doesn't mention if Frankenplug is standard or optional, but the range extender is optional.

"The battery can be fully recharged in six hours at a standard power socket [230 volts in Europe, not our 120v]. If a high-speed charger is used an 80 per cent charge can be achieved in just one hour..... The BMW i3 Concept therefore offers an optional range extender, the REx, which allows the driving range to be increased. REx, a small, very smooth-running and quiet petrol engine, drives a generator"

3. Chrysler / Fiat - they don't even want to take "free" government money to develop EVs, and gave it back. Nada from them. The Fiat 500e compliance car has no mention of quick charging or combo plug (nor J1772), only 240 and 120 volt charge times.

4. Daimler - working with Tesla, which means unlikely their first EV efforts will have anything more than what the Toyota Rav4 EV has.... no DC fact charger. The pictures shown so far have enough room for a CHAdeMO plug along side the Mennekes plug for the European market. Presumably, a J1772 plug would be used in North America.

5. Ford - nada. The Focus EV is a luke warm effort to comply with CARB.

6. General Motors - Spark, Spring 2014. Just a California CARB compliance car. Toyota has to sell 2600 Rav4 EVs, so I suspect GM must sell a similar volume.

http://www.hybridcars.com/news/chevrolet-spark-ev-will-be-made-south-korea-43108.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Frankenplug is optional on Spark EV and initial markets include California, Oregon, Canada, South Korea and other global markets.

“The Spark EV will be sold in limited quantities in select U.S. and global markets starting in 2013 (as a 2014 model), including California,” Fox said. “We have not announced any additional markets beyond California and have not said exactly when in 2013 they will be available. More news and information will be coming as we get closer to the introduction and launch of the Spark EV.”

"“The Spark EV will be produced in Changwon, South Korea, the same location as the Spark with the internal combustion engine," said GM's Randy Fox, Electric Vehicle Technology Communications."

"Actually, the Spark EV's range – along with curb weight, price, top speed, on-board charger details, and other specifications – are still not being shared, Fox said, as these are still being finalized."

"Although Fox did not say so, it’s likely the company will continue using SAE charging connections as it does with the Volt, and not CHAdeMO. He did confirm DC fast charging will be available."


7. Porsche - nada

8. Renault - tentative and tepid announcement after the other 8 announced that they are "in". No car announced to handle it, though, and they announced their own 43kW AC "Chameleon" fast charger and support of CHAdeMO that sister company Nissan uses.

9. Volkswagen - They have a ChadeMo Blink at their San Francisco tech center, and plan to use converted Golf's in 2013, presumably to be strictly CARB compliance cars:

"Volkswagen, a major promoter of the Combo system, plans to put EVs on the market around the world from 2013 by converting some of its Golf and other popular models.

While Volkswagen will use the Combo system as the charging system for its EVs, the company will modify relevant units to accommodate the CHAdeMo system for the Japanese market."


I would guess that the not specifically mentioned USA that will have beau coup ChadeMo's compared to perhaps zero Frankenplugs might also get those "modified / accommodated" VW cars here in the USA.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/06/08/2121867/automakers-aim-to-set-global-standard.html#storylink=cpy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“DC charging” refers to a charging protocol in which a charging station supplies direct current to a plug-in vehicle’s battery pack. This type of charging, which can be used to “quick charge” some compatible battery packs to 80% state-of-charge (SOC) in as little as ten to twenty minutes, contrasts with the much more common AC charging protocols, in which alternating charging current is supplied to the vehicle and is rectified to direct current by the vehicle’s on-board charger component, which then charges the battery pack.

Efforts to find consensus on a single charging standard have so far been elusive, particularly with respect to DC charging. Although the CHAdeMO DC charging standard prevails in Japan, with almost 1400 such chargers installed in that country, it is not integrated with AC charging. A CHAdeMO-complaint vehicle therefore requires a large charging door (e.g., Nissan LEAF) or two separate charging doors (e.g., Mitsubishi i-MiEV).

Volkswagen executives indicated that they had met with CHAdeMO representatives in the past to discuss a single charging standard, but were unable to come to an agreement; one executive reminisced “that was a very difficult discussion” which “quickly became political”. Although many manufacturers of plug-in vehicles, including Volkswagen, support the SAE J1772 AC-DC “combo connector” standard in the US market, as well as the somewhat similar VDE-AR-E 2623-2-2 AC-DC standard in Europe, one VW executive remarked “we don’t want to discriminate” on charging standards, explaining “...the investors and the users will decide”.
 
Interesting post on TMC about the chargers in CA and requirements now/future.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/12357-SAE-vs-CHAdeMO/page2?p=314926&viewfull=1#post314926" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
They are only required to have those plugs when two publically available cars using that standard are in the market. The default charger for those 200 is the CHAdeMO. Even when they start adding a second Frankenplug brand charger to the already existing CHAdeMO, there just won't be very many cars to use them.

Response Posted by Robert.Boston
That's not quite right. First, the initial chargers have to have both CHAdeMO and J1772. Second, those need to go up to DC SAE when there is at least one car that can use the SAE DC charging and at least two EVSE manufacturers who make the chargers. NRG didn't want to get squeezed having to sole-source chargers. Here's the exact language from the settlement agreement, section 4.A(vi)(4):
Charging Standards. Initially all Freedom Stations shall have one(1) or more DC Fast Chargers compatible with the CHAdeMo Standard and one (1) Level 2 Charger compatible with the SAE Standard. Upon the occurrence of (A) approval by SAE for a charger standard for DC Fast Chargers and (B) the commercial availability from at least two (2) unaffiliated manufacturers of one or more DC Fast Chargers that are SAE Standard compatible or equipment capable of making the Freedom Stations’ DC Fast Chargers compatible with both the SAE Standard and the CHAdeMo Standard (and in each case that are approved by the Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories), then NRG shall have six (6) months to complete the modification of all installed Freedom Stations to include at least one (1) SAE Standard compatible DC Fast Charger and one (1) CHAdeMo Standard compatible DC Fast Charger or one (1) CHAdeMo+SAE DC Charger. Thereafter, all newly installed Freedom Stations will have at least one (1) DC Fast Charger that is SAE Standard compatible.

Notwithstanding anything else to the contrary herein, if at any time during the Installation Period the CHAdeMo Standard and/or the SAE Standard become abandoned or superceded such that no electric vehicles utilizing the CHAdeMo Standard or SAE Standard (as applicable) are available for purchase in the California market, then NRG shall not be required to continue to install CHAdeMo Standard compatible or SAE Standard compatible (as applicable) DC Fast Chargers as part of the Freedom Stations; provided that in the event of such an occurrence NRG and the CPUC shall meet and confer to identify and mutually agree upon the new commercially prevailing standard.

Another summary article:
http://smartenergyuniverse.com/electric-vehicle/1404-california-puc-files-settlement-agreement-to-move-electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-forward" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/17/the-new-chevy-spark-will-offer-a-c-or-d-c-charging/?ref=automobiles" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My reply:

It seems that you got many of the GM talking points about DC charging. That "Japanese standard" DC charging, called CHAdeMO, is actually the world standard, with 2500 chargers installed around the world, including almost 200 in the USA and 650 in Europe. There are 50,000 cars around the world using that standard. This year will add many, many more of both cars and charging stations.

This new competing standard that GM is introducing with the Spark EV will only be used in the USA. No other USA car manufacturer, Ford, Chrylser/Fiat, nor 100% electric car manufacturer Tesla have any cars planned or announced for this new standard. In the entire USA, there are four of these new standard charging stations at manufacturer's technical centers and exactly one in the public, north of Phoenix, Arizona.

Maybe GM can get the government of New York to endorse their competing standard, and the country will split with CHAdeMO on the west coast, and this new one in the east.

Germany will use a different standard, even though they like to call it the same name. Neither of the two "Frankenplug" standards will be used in Japan. CHAdeMO, however, is the same throughout the world.

Two other cars will be arriving in 2014 to the USA from offshore to use the GM promoted standard here, from BMW and VW. None of these cars are expected to sell in large numbers.

The two largest established battery electric vehicle manufacturers, Nissan and Tesla, do not use the Frankenplug, nor have they announced plans to do so.
 
VIA TMC and stopcrazypp

Washington State’s Plug-In Electric Vehicle DC Fast Charging Network
WSDOT Public/Private Partnerships
http://www.georgetownclimate.org/sites/default/files/EV%20Panel-Buell-final.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Considerations for Building Highway Networks
Make sure equipment is forward compatible
• Consider an equipment spec that rewards extra points for “dual cord sets” that
can charge CHAdeMO ports (Nissan, Mitsubishi) and also the forthcoming
Combo charger which is the new SAE standard.
 
TonyWilliams said:
...exactly one in the public, north of Phoenix, Arizona.
Just curious. Where is the one which is located north of Phoenix? Do you know who the maker is?
 
kovalb said:
TonyWilliams said:
...exactly one in the public, north of Phoenix, Arizona.
Just curious. Where is the one which is located north of Phoenix? Do you know who the maker is?

Sorry, but my post was wrong. It is actually located southeast of Phoenix, between Phoenix and Tucson.

I believe the company is Go3, however the unit is reportedly not working now.
 
TonyWilliams said:
kovalb said:
TonyWilliams said:
...exactly one in the public, north of Phoenix, Arizona.
Just curious. Where is the one which is located north of Phoenix? Do you know who the maker is?

Sorry, but my post was wrong. It is actually located southeast of Phoenix, between Phoenix and Tucson.

I believe the company is Go3, however the unit is reportedly not working now.
Thanks Tony :)
 
Maybe the compliance BEVs from GM and BMW should offer CHAdeMO ports as an option for the US market?

So they actually can DC charge in the real world...

...Volkswagen's E-Up! electric hatch back was recently spotted testing near Gotenberg in Sweden.

The Swedish blog reporter who stumbled across the E-Up! unattended at a local charging station noted the VW EV was using a Japanese standard CHAdeMO fast charging plug as opposed to the SAE J1772 DC fast charging standard agreed to by Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen.

We have previously noticed the CHAdeMO plug being used on Audi's R8 e-tron test mules.

Source: Blixtgordon (Swedish)...
http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2013/05/vw-e-up-spotted-chademo-charging-in.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
368 DC chargers in the USA, according to the new Recargo/PlugShare company!!

Subtract 1 public Frankenplug between Phoenix and Tucson, and a handful of Tesla Superchargers (about 10 right now?), and that's a whole bunch of "way behind" for Frankenplug.

Oh, and still not a single Frankenplug car. But, we do have over 25,000 Nissan LEAFs in the USA, virtually all of which have a CHAdeMO port. I doubt there will be 25,000 Frankenplug equipped cars in the USA for a LOOOOOooooooong time.


riseofcharging
 
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