Quick math verification on a station nearby...cheap!

[katieandbrian]

Okay, so here's the deal. Got my awesome leaf a couple of months ago and got super-excited/over-zealous with my research and reading. We drive about 45 miles round trip a day, so I figured we haadddd to have a 240/30amp capability. Went ahead and got an electrician to install an outlet that would fit the EVSEUPGRADE.COM's upgrade to my stock unit. Long story short, electrician screwed up, wired the supplemental 120v outlet at 240 as well, I was plugging into the 120 before I knew it was too hot and before I got my evse upgraded. Sent it in and got a call about how it's circuit is fried. Totally bummed. It's been a bad day. To replace the stock unit, it will cost me about 400 more dollars from them, 700 more to get a new upgraded unit.

So, I normally charge at a free BLINK near my work and made due with about 5 home charges total in 6 weeks with the 120. It was a lot of work planning the BLINK charging, but not too bad. Kind of fun and relaxing in fact.

Then last night...
I went out with my wife about .5 miles from my house to get some coffee and knew there were some chargepoint stations nearby the place we were going to, so we drove and figured we'd get some charge out of it. I come back and we pulled about 10kw in 90 minutes (typical). The total charge cost was $.37. Yeah, that's 37 cents. I thought it was a glitch as I assumed it was 1 dollar for the first hour and whatever fraction of the following hours. Should have cost about $1.50. So, I call up chargepoint today and find out that these stations (that are on the street with free parking utnil 3am for EVs) are $.25/hour from 8:30pm to 3am.

I'm extremely excited about this for a couple of reasons. As you all know, Blink has rolled out the (ridiculous) $5.00 per charge for DCQC structure recently, so some of my area options are now limited for free power.

Math:

I pulled 9.678kWh from the station over the course of 1:29:33. I don't think I received 100% of that, but it comes out to drawing 6.49kWh/hour (I have the 6.6 onboard option). This cost me .37 which comes out to $.026/kWh.

According to my math, this is substantially less than anywhere off the grid. Last month I averaged $.14/kWh in California.

So, is this correct? If so, how is this profitable? Did I just find my solution to my cluster-f of a home-charging situation? Can I just plug in from 8:30-10 every night to top up to 65% and be done with it for mere cents? Too good to be true? Would love your thoughts!

 

[Lopton]

This is one of those situations that is very challenging for everyone involved. While yes it is true that you could park your car at one of these stations each night and charge for relatively cheap, on that same token you may be blocking someone else who may need a charge to make it back home that night. My two cents.

-Matt

 

[RegGuheert]

I think I would be inclined to have the electrician pay for the repairs to the EVSE.

 

[thankyouOB]

where do you live in CA?

 

[TomT]

If there are no external signs of it frying, you could always tell the dealer it died and see if they'll replace it... :roll:

Long story short, electrician screwed up, wired the supplemental 120v outlet at 240 as well, I was plugging into the 120 before I knew it was too hot and before I got my evse upgraded. Sent it in and got a call about how it's circuit is fried. Totally bummed. It's been a bad day. To replace the stock unit, it will cost me about 400 more dollars from them, 700 more to get a new upgraded unit.

 

[katieandbrian]

Well, I understand that point, and as an EV driver, I feel like the community aspect of adopting this technology is very important. However, I think it would be very foolish of me to not take up one of the 4 available spots between the hours of 830 and 10 or 1030pm at this discounted rate just because of the "chance" of someone running out of juice. Out of the few times I've charged there, none of the other 3 spots have been occupied. Also, if an EV driver did not plan their route, or did not check the chargepoint/plug share app to see if anyone was occupying the spaces I don't really know what to tell them. They'll have to wait. Or go to one of the nearby parking garages. I go out of my way to charge at ALL spots, even free-public ones, to at the very least check-in on plugshare and notify the community that I'm using a free spot and for how long.

This is one of those situations that is very challenging for everyone involved. While yes it is true that you could park your car at one of these stations each night and charge for relatively cheap, on that same token you may be blocking someone else who may need a charge to make it back home that night. My two cents.

-Matt

 

[katieandbrian]

where do you live in CA?

bay area

 

[katieandbrian]

I think I would be inclined to have the electrician pay for the repairs to the EVSE.

Ahhh, yes, you are correct. I don't think it's that simple though. Well, it could be! But, I found out the circuit was wired incorrectly because I fried my wussy little electric weed whacker. When I told him this, he promptly purchased a unit for me that far exceeded the value of the unit he destroyed, and came back to fix the wiring issue. I found him through a craigslist ad, checked his license out, and figured I was doing a good Samaritan thing by hiring an up and coming/small guy instead of an overpriced big contractor. I'm sort of regretting it now, if you know what I mean. Point is, I don't think he could afford the 700 dollars it would cost to replace the OEM unit, but again, that's not really my problem. It's kind of a moral dilemma type thing..

 

[katieandbrian]

If there are no external sings of it frying, you could always tell the dealer it died and see if they'll replace it... :roll:

Long story short, electrician screwed up, wired the supplemental 120v outlet at 240 as well, I was plugging into the 120 before I knew it was too hot and before I got my evse upgraded. Sent it in and got a call about how it's circuit is fried. Totally bummed. It's been a bad day. To replace the stock unit, it will cost me about 400 more dollars from them, 700 more to get a new upgraded unit.

This is a great idea. It didn't have any external signs of fry-age. In fact, after the electrician fixed it, I was plugging it in and successfully charging at 120 a couple times before I sent it to EVSEupgrade.

 

[DarkStar]

I went out with my wife about .5 miles from my house to get some coffee

how is this profitable?

It's a value-added service. They got you to go out and get some coffee, which is very profitable!

I bet they even provide free wifi!

 

[wsbca]

Is your time worth anything at all? My guess is you're going to get sick of moving the car up the street and back every night during 'prime time' (whether or not you watch TV), regardless of whether you walk back home while it's charging and back over when it's done, or sit there and drink coffee (how much does the coffee cost?)

I'm as frugal as they come, and would keenly seek out economical public charging if it existed down here, whenever it fit in with what I was going to be doing, but even I wouldn't do what you describe to save $1 or less a day on average. I understand that part of your calculation is whether to re-invest in your own charging infrastructure, but still... If we have the breakthrough in EV adoption that we're all hoping for, it won't be long before your secret charge spot is going to be full sometime when you really need it, and you're going to want your own capability at home.

 

[davewill]

... But, I found out the circuit was wired incorrectly because I fried my wussy little electric weed whacker. When I told him this, he promptly purchased a unit for me that far exceeded the value of the unit he destroyed, and came back to fix the wiring issue. I found him through a craigslist ad, checked his license out, and figured I was doing a good Samaritan thing by hiring an up and coming/small guy instead of an overpriced big contractor. I'm sort of regretting it now, if you know what I mean. Point is, I don't think he could afford the 700 dollars it would cost to replace the OEM unit, but again, that's not really my problem. It's kind of a moral dilemma type thing..

Color me confused. You fried the weed-whacker, then decided to fry your EVSE as well? In that case, you should shoulder the expense.

Or did he come back to "fix" it, screwed up again, and THEN you fried your EVSE? If he screwed up a second time, I'd say he DESERVES to pay for it and should really consider another line of work. Protecting him from his mistakes sounds like a way to enable him to REALLY mess up somebody's life in the future. An incompetent electrician can burn someone's house down.

... So, is this correct? If so, how is this profitable? Did I just find my solution to my cluster-f of a home-charging situation? Can I just plug in from 8:30-10 every night to top up to 65% and be done with it for mere cents? Too good to be true? Would love your thoughts!

It's likely not profitable. It sounds to me like the business owner is charging just enough to cover Chargepoint's fees and basic maintenance. I would consider imposing on them on a nightly basis to be abusing a good thing, personally, unless you're truly patronizing their business every time.

 

[katieandbrian]

... But, I found out the circuit was wired incorrectly because I fried my wussy little electric weed whacker. When I told him this, he promptly purchased a unit for me that far exceeded the value of the unit he destroyed, and came back to fix the wiring issue. I found him through a craigslist ad, checked his license out, and figured I was doing a good Samaritan thing by hiring an up and coming/small guy instead of an overpriced big contractor. I'm sort of regretting it now, if you know what I mean. Point is, I don't think he could afford the 700 dollars it would cost to replace the OEM unit, but again, that's not really my problem. It's kind of a moral dilemma type thing..

Color me confused. You fried the weed-whacker, then decided to fry your EVSE as well? In that case, you should shoulder the expense.

Or did he come back to "fix" it, screwed up again, and THEN you fried your EVSE? If he screwed up a second time, I'd say he DESERVES to pay for it and should really consider another line of work. Protecting him from his mistakes sounds like a way to enable him to REALLY mess up somebody's life in the future. An incompetent electrician can burn someone's house down.

... So, is this correct? If so, how is this profitable? Did I just find my solution to my cluster-f of a home-charging situation? Can I just plug in from 8:30-10 every night to top up to 65% and be done with it for mere cents? Too good to be true? Would love your thoughts!

It's likely not profitable. It sounds to me like the business owner is charging just enough to cover Chargepoint's fees and basic maintenance. I would consider imposing on them on a nightly basis to be abusing a good thing, personally, unless you're truly patronizing their business every time.

Sorry, my description was unclear. Guy came out, did the work (wrong). He installed a 240v/30a dryer-type outlet with a normal 120v outlet in the same box (rationale was that if he's doing the work under the house, might as well have a both types of outlets wired up at the same time) on the outside of my house. My thinking was that I could get my evse modified and plug it into the new 240v/30a outlet that's conveniently located right next to where I park the leaf, and have somewhere to plug in my electric yard-work tools. Killed two birds with one stone. So, he actually wired up the 240v outlet correctly, but mistakenly wired the 120 at 240v (is how I understand it).

So, I didn't know that the regular outlet was screwed up, so before I had my evse modded to fit the new 240 outlet, I was plugging it into the new outdoor outlet that was wired incorrectly. I did this a couple of times and it was charging fine. Then, after I had charged a couple times overnight, I went outside to do some trimming, plugged the weed whacker in, then poof. I did not use the outlet in between when I realized it was wrong and when he came out to fix it.

So, knowing that both of the outlets were now functioning to their specs, I sent my evse to evseupgrade to have the modification done. That's when I got the call from them saying someone had plugged it into 240 service. I was surprised as I had not put the obvious together: if the outlet burned out my power tool, it probably did some damage to my evse when I plugged it in those 2 times to charge up before the electrician came out to fix the issue.

The more I think about it, the more I'm feeling like this guy put my wife, my dog and cat, my house, and my life in danger. I understand people make mistakes, but screwing with electricity and making that simple of a mistake seems like a pretty messed up thing.

As for the public charging station, they are sidewalk chargepoints installed by the city, right across the street from city hall. So, no retail/food business is technically responsible for them.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the point of public charging stations, but if they are charging an amount that they decided on, and I'm paying it, I don't see how using it frequently is abuse.

 

[katieandbrian]

Is your time worth anything at all? My guess is you're going to get sick of moving the car up the street and back every night during 'prime time' (whether or not you watch TV), regardless of whether you walk back home while it's charging and back over when it's done, or sit there and drink coffee (how much does the coffee cost?)

I'm as frugal as they come, and would keenly seek out economical public charging if it existed down here, whenever it fit in with what I was going to be doing, but even I wouldn't do what you describe to save $1 or less a day on average. I understand that part of your calculation is whether to re-invest in your own charging infrastructure, but still... If we have the breakthrough in EV adoption that we're all hoping for, it won't be long before your secret charge spot is going to be full sometime when you really need it, and you're going to want your own capability at home.

Sure, my time is valuable, but I've found that with driving an EV, I am inherently spending more time to take advantage of the charging infrastructure in my area than with filling up at the gas station once a week. The easiest method would be to just charge at home, but that's inefficient and as costly as charging comes (with the exception of BLINK DCQC). I could install a dedicated circuit (which I did, sort of, lol), get my evse modded (which I tried to do), and have more efficient grid-to-car charging that is fast enough to cover me if I forget to charge or what have you. The total cost of this is about $600, including the new outlet.

Also, I don't watch TV, and I generally exercise at that time of the day. So, for me to drive 2 minutes down the road, plug in, go for a run, end up where I'm charging an hour later, drive home in 2 minutes, that extra dollar for me is worth it. I guess I don't see it as an inconvenience as I haven't had the luxury of actually using my 240 at home yet due to my electrician issues. Maybe once I get all of that sorted out, I'll have a different perspective.

 

[davewill]

... So, knowing that both of the outlets were now functioning to their specs, I sent my evse to evseupgrade to have the modification done. That's when I got the call from them saying someone had plugged it into 240 service. I was surprised as I had not put the obvious together: if the outlet burned out my power tool, it probably did some damage to my evse when I plugged it in those 2 times to charge up before the electrician came out to fix the issue.

The more I think about it, the more I'm feeling like this guy put my wife, my dog and cat, my house, and my life in danger. I understand people make mistakes, but screwing with electricity and making that simple of a mistake seems like a pretty messed up thing.

As for the public charging station, they are sidewalk chargepoints installed by the city, right across the street from city hall. So, no retail/food business is technically responsible for them.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the point of public charging stations, but if they are charging an amount that they decided on, and I'm paying it, I don't see how using it frequently is abuse.

That makes sense. We had a report that the 2013 EVSEs would sometimes run for a while on 240v, and then fry when you least expect it. In fact, Nissan put out a special bulletin to the dealers to open up warranty returns of them and look for evidence of use @ 240v so that they could refuse replacement in those cases.

Did the EVSE Upgrade folks think they could fix it or is it toast? If you end up buying another, I bet you could sell the dead soldier here and recoup a little of your money. The cable and plug alone cost north of $100 to buy as parts.

As far as public charging, there's frequent and there's frequent. If I had a coffee shop and put one in my parking lot for "public" use, but one single person was parked there every single evening, all evening, I might decide it wasn't attracting business like I'd hoped, and just rip it out. Being that it's on the curb, and put in by the city, I'd say knock yourself out.

 

[GlennD]

If your EVSE is the older large style I have a set of "guts" that you can have. I understand the new 2013 smaller style has no replaceable parts.

 

[katieandbrian]

... So, knowing that both of the outlets were now functioning to their specs, I sent my evse to evseupgrade to have the modification done. That's when I got the call from them saying someone had plugged it into 240 service. I was surprised as I had not put the obvious together: if the outlet burned out my power tool, it probably did some damage to my evse when I plugged it in those 2 times to charge up before the electrician came out to fix the issue.

The more I think about it, the more I'm feeling like this guy put my wife, my dog and cat, my house, and my life in danger. I understand people make mistakes, but screwing with electricity and making that simple of a mistake seems like a pretty messed up thing.

As for the public charging station, they are sidewalk chargepoints installed by the city, right across the street from city hall. So, no retail/food business is technically responsible for them.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the point of public charging stations, but if they are charging an amount that they decided on, and I'm paying it, I don't see how using it frequently is abuse.

That makes sense. We had a report that the 2012 EVSEs would sometimes run for a while on 240v, and then fry when you least expect it. In fact, Nissan put out a special bulletin to the dealers to open up warranty returns of them and look for evidence of use @ 240v so that they could refuse replacement in those cases.

Did the EVSE Upgrade folks think they could fix it or is it toast? If you end up buying another, I bet you could sell the dead soldier here and recoup a little of your money. The cable and plug alone cost north of $100 to buy as parts.

As far as public charging, there's frequent and there's frequent. If I had a coffee shop and put one in my parking lot for "public" use, but one single person was parked there every single evening, all evening, I might decide it wasn't attracting business like I'd hoped, and just rip it out. Being that it's on the curb, and put in by the city, I'd say knock yourself out.

They seem to think it's toast. Having an engineer take a deeper look at it today. I doubt the news will be good. I'll explore selling it on here.

I don't think I'll end up using the .25/hr curb station every night, but a few times a week would probably be viable. EVs aren't super popular in my immediate area, so I don't feel too bad taking advantage of a convenient and cheap station. Thanks for the info!

 

[RonDawg]

I found him through a craigslist ad, checked his license out, and figured I was doing a good Samaritan thing by hiring an up and coming/small guy instead of an overpriced big contractor.

Was his license specifically for electrical work? I've seen contractors who publish their license numbers, but when you run the number through the Contractors State Licensing Board you find it they are licensed for a different specialty than you are looking for.

If it's not for electrical work, then his screwups are not hard to imagine.

I'd also report him to the Contractors State Licensing Board regardless, either to report sheer incompetence which could have endangered lives, or to report he's doing contracting work outside of his license. And if he's done other work besides the two outlets, I would pay another REAL electrician (one with a valid electrical contractor's license at the very least) to double check his work.