Question on miles per Kw

[nerys]

Hehe thats an unferstatement

 

[w4y]

For what it's worth (probably zero to nerys), I disagree with nerys.

Chalk me up as a troll!

PS: Here is an article on this very topic: http://cleantechnica.com/2015/02/02/power-vs-energy-explanation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[nerys]

I have no problem with anyone disagrreing with me though i dont think you are disagreeing with me. The dictionary is clear. Disagree with that?

Explain that is all i ask.

Everyone here refuses to i just keep getting variations of you are stupid and because we said.

And you wonder why i resist?

 

[Christopher]

I have no problem with anyone disagrreing with me though i dont think you are disagreeing with me. The dictionary is clear. Disagree with that? Explain that is all i ask. Everyone here refuses to i just keep getting variations of you are stupid and because we said. And you wonder why i resist?

May I give this a try? Note how "I don't have the energy to do that" and "I don't have the power to do that" mean different things.

The definition "ability to do or act; capability of doing or accomplishing something" does indeed speak to how something or someone has the power to accomplish something. As in, do I have the power or capability to influence your thinking, or the power or capability to lift this rock, or I can ask if a motor has sufficient power or capability to move a vehicle. But this doesn't speak to how long you can apply this ability, this power, to do the work. In other words, "power" doesn't speak to how long I can carry this rock or how far I can move this vehicle. In other words, "power" doesn't refer to how much "energy" we have to do the work but rather to the basic capability/ability to do it. There's an interdependency though: you must have both the "power" (muscles, motor, will, etc) and the "energy" to feed it.

Another way to look at it is that we talk about how powerful our electric motor is but it's weird to ask how powerful a battery is. We say a battery has a certain energy capacity and speak of how much energy is currently stored in the battery. We use this energy by drawing it from the battery over time (kW/h) and applying power via the electric motor (rated at a certain kW) and end up using a total amount of energy (kWh).

But yes, people often say they "don't have any power left in their device" or talk about "how much power is left in their battery" when really they should be asking how much energy is left. Heck, I do it all the time myself. So yes, people are often imprecise in the terms they use everyday.

 

[w4y]

It probably hasn't occurred to you that english is actually a very poor form of communication to convey scientific knowledge. Hence why equations are used instead of dictionaries in physics.

Further, it probably hasn't occurred to you that given 5 people reading any given sentence or definition, there will be at least 3 different interpretations.

Lastly, it probably hasn't occurred to you that maybe the dictionary, whichever one you used, is not the authority of electromagnetism, and may be imprecise at best, and plain incorrect at worse.

 

[TimLee]

Confucius: "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance"

 

[nerys]

It probably hasn't occured to you that we are not having any sort of scientific discussion. At all. In any way shape or form.

Absolutely no insult intended.

The core problem is some are trying to force scientific usage in a non scientific discussion.

 

[Christopher]

The core problem is some are trying to force scientific usage in a non scientific discussion.

Well, I'd argue it's not really a scientific vs. non-scientific usage of the word. See my explanation above. But words get abused all the time and over time many of these usages become so common that they become new definitions. "Literally" comes to mind immediately and I'm just a little sad to see that one get redefined: "used for emphasis or to express strong feeling while not being literally true".

So yeah, while I'll sometimes misuse "power" when it comes to talking about battery energy levels, I recognize that "power" really refers to an ability or capability, not the "energy" required to apply that ability.

 

[nerys]

Exactly. The thing is i am not talking about energy. I am talkinh about applying energy to do something.

Power.

The gom is not an energy meter. It would have to display kwh for that. It is a battery/car/system power meter. Units is miles.

The bubbles up top are also a power meter but only power from the motor.

I can not see what is wrong with this. Yet i get a ton of nasty in this thread.

Again. I used a word i thought was right

No joke i thought oh **** i just used another word wrong and they are going to flame me again.

So i looked the word up and found the definition precisely matched my use of the word

Ie i had in fact used it right.

I did not gloat i simply posted the definition. It was ignored. The flaming ranting began.

 

[Stoaty]

The gom is not an energy meter. It would have to display kwh for that. It is a battery/car/system power meter. Units is miles.

No.

"Power is the rate of doing work. It is equivalent to an amount of energy consumed per unit time. The integral of power over time defines the work performed." (i.e., the distance traveled in miles)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_%28physics%29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Power can never have units of miles.

 

[nerys]

Notice. you did not link to a definition of power.

you linked to a definition of Power (physics).

which is not the word I was using. why do you intentionally refuse to acknowledge this.

use the right word

https://www.google.com/search?q=definition+power&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Rauv]

Can someone Google "wasted energy".. Oh wait...That's how I got here.

 

[Stoaty]

Can someone Google "wasted energy".. Oh wait...That's how I got here.

No, I don't have the power to do that.

 

[nerys]

See now you are getting it.

 

[Nubo]

It probably hasn't occured to you that we are not having any sort of scientific discussion. At all. In any way shape or form.

It took me a while to figure that out.

 

[w4y]

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming you are using the word "power" correctly in casual conversation (still disagree with you there), the physics definition of the word power (which is, by the way, #4 in the google link you provide) makes more sense to refer to in our context, especially because your initial post was also intermixed with other very technical terminologies like: kWh, battery capacity, miles/kWh, and other math.

You can't dismiss the physics definition completely. That's very disingenuous of you.

Note also the example given for the first definition of the word power in your link. It has nothing to do with batteries, kWh, capabity, miles, etc: "the power of speech"

Even if you were to dismiss the physics definition as irrelevant, there is no way a word could have two countering definitions that act as antonyms of each other. That would cause too much confusion in everyday conversation, and people would start to stop using one of the definitions. Therefore, there is *no way* your interpretation of the definition of power can be fundamentally different than the physics definition of power -- it would cause too much confusion by everyone.

 

[Christopher]

Notice. you did not link to a definition of power. you linked to a definition of Power (physics). which is not the word I was using. why do you intentionally refuse to acknowledge this. use the right word

Well, I did use your definition and tried to show how you've misinterpreted that definition. Even when not referring to a machine that uses energy to do work, "power" in English refers to an ability or capability to do something, not to the amount of work or energy or effort needed to complete a task.

The gom is not an energy meter. It would have to display kwh for that. It is a battery/car/system power meter. Units is miles. The bubbles up top are also a power meter but only power from the motor.

And you're really going too far to say the GOM is not a measure of available energy just because it uses miles or kilometers rather than kWh. It is still a measure of the amount of energy available expressed as the potential amount of work that can be done (in distance). It's not the choice of units that's important. It's what is being measured. If you increase power output that doesn't mean you go further, it means you go faster (and not as far due to increased wind resistance).

Yes, the bubble meter is a measure of power. The GOM is an estimate of the amount of work that can be done, directly based on the amount of remaining energy available in the battery and your past recent history of energy consumption and distance travelled. It's most definitely not a power meter.

I can not see what is wrong with this. Yet i get a ton of nasty in this thread.

Well, I am trying to show you and acknowledging that people (myself included) misuse "power" to refer to the amount of energy left in a battery.

Are you saying I shouldn't bother trying??

 

[Christopher]

Even if you were to dismiss the physics definition as irrelevant, there is no way a word could have two countering definitions that act as antonyms of each other. That would cause too much confusion in everyday conversation, and people would start to stop using one of the definitions. Therefore, there is *no way* your interpretation of the definition of power can be fundamentally different than the physics definition of power -- it would cause too much confusion by everyone.

Well, that's not true. Plenty of words get contradictory meanings over time, usually starting as informal slang. Yes, it's confusing but it still happens. Heck, you could argue my "literally" example is just such a case.

 

[w4y]

Even if you were to dismiss the physics definition as irrelevant, there is no way a word could have two countering definitions that act as antonyms of each other. That would cause too much confusion in everyday conversation, and people would start to stop using one of the definitions. Therefore, there is *no way* your interpretation of the definition of power can be fundamentally different than the physics definition of power -- it would cause too much confusion by everyone.

Well, that's not true. Plenty of words get contradictory meanings over time, usually starting as informal slang. Yes, it's confusing but it still happens. Heck, you could argue my "literally" example is just such a case.

That works in slang (thinking of the word "bad" here, which can mean "good" or "great") only because it's only said informally in person-to-person conversation with a lot of context. It's almost never widely used as such, and certainly not in an internet post without any context, which would then be interpreted by everyone in the traditional sense.

 

[nerys]

Then explain the dictionary definition of power?

Or explain which of us is mis reading and explain why you think that in the context of the definition as listed.

I read the gom as a prediction of how far it thinks i can go. Ie its ability to do something.

The definition of power is the ability to do something.

The classic test of the correct usage of a word is to replace the word with the defintion.

Ability to do something. In this situation something is to drive a distance.

So my ability to drive a distance. You can measure this in either time or miles. It matters not which you use miles always incorporates time In thisncontext. Distance at max is say 100 miles or if you want to use time at 50mph that is 2 hours.

Anyway.

I wish i had more power.

I wish i had more ability to drive a distance.

Or more accurately i wish the predicted power or predicted ability to drive a distance was more accurate and consistent.

The word fits. The definition fits in place of the word

From a language perspective i am using the word correctly.

Tell me why i am not.

Using the definition and context provided. You cant simply replace it with some other definition simply because you do not like the one i have.