Question on miles per Kw

[nerys]

no. it was not on purpose. I used the correct word that came to mind when I typed the sentence. nothing more.

what.? do you actually think I sat here and wasted a chunk of my life rubbing my hands going HEHEHE how can I abuse some word to piss people on my leaf forum off?

really? you are joking right?

I even CONFIRMED for you it was the correct word. do I get an owe. hey sorry man you were right. that word is fine.

no. I get called a troll?

seriously?

 

[Nubo]

no. it was not on purpose. I used the correct word that came to mind when I typed the sentence. nothing more.

what.? do you actually think I sat here and wasted a chunk of my life rubbing my hands going HEHEHE how can I abuse some word to piss people on my leaf forum off?

No I didn't say you did it to piss people off. Just that you use the wrong terms despite your insistence that you understand the differences. I did not ascribe a motivation.

I even CONFIRMED for you it was the correct word.

We disagree on that point.

do I get an owe. hey sorry man you were right. that word is fine.
no. I get called a troll?

I didn't call you a troll, explicitly or implicitly. All I meant to convey is that I still don't understand your habits in this regard but I'm willing to accept that you see the world differently. Consider it an attempt to bury the hatchet of past, more heated discussions. And maybe a gentle ribbing.

 

[nerys]

sooo. you reject the specific definition of the word you don't agree with? or you think the words in that definition mean something else ?

ie what point do you disagree on exactly?

it is afterall the very first definition

1.
the ability to do something or act in a particular way, especially as a faculty or quality.

I said

my only real gripe is that it is extremely difficult to actually predict how much power you have and how far you can go.

ENERGY in a technical sense would be the KWH capacity stored in the battery? Correct? am I using the term correctly?

SO POWER or "my ability to do something" alters based on conditions temperature air whatever. you name it.

how much POWER I have relates to range. miles I can drive. ability to DO something.

80kwh means nothing for this. that is my MAX output from the motor. not the battery. that is the "power" of the motor. Not the power from the battery for how far I can drive.

I am not interested in the ENERGY of the battery. it is static. 18.5kwh pretty much every single time as read from the car's computer system.

I am interested in the POWER. the ability to do something. the something here is how many miles can i drive.

I really do not understand (I am being serious now) what is confusing and or wrong about this that you disagree with?

it is one thing to tell me I am using a word wrong but another all together to say you are doing it wrong and flat out refuse to explain "WHY" and "HOW"

I am not using Energy/Power ENGINEER words. I am using ENERGY/POWER regular english words.

I totally get the KW versus KWH BS. I still contend it is 100% irrelevant to anyone except an engineering teacher grading a paper but I relent. it is technically the wrong term. (and used wrong by the WORLD OVER or I really just lack intimate understanding of what the words mean on a fine level since even videos posted that EXPLAIN the difference appear to self contradict in their very own explanations. Grrrr)

HOW is my usage of power here wrong? be specific and do not use ENGINEERING rules. use the dictionary.

 

[Nubo]

sooo. you reject the specific definition of the word you don't agree with? or you think the words in that definition mean something else ?

ie what point do you disagree on exactly?

I think a thread about miles per kWh sets a context in which the scientific distinction between power and energy is relevant.

Power is the instantaneous expression of energy. I.e. 80kW. It doesn't tell you how far you can go, just that for an instant in time you were using 80kW. Energy is the ability to do work, such as moving a car from point A to point B in X amount of time. The amount of energy at your disposal can be used to determine how far you can go, as long as you know the parameters of how that energy will be expended.

That being said, it's a nit and not a big deal.

 

[nerys]

Again you ignore the posted definition of power and how I used the word in my quote.

how is it wrong? FYI "scientific" equals "engineering" in this context.

Is the definition I posted wrong? am I somehow reading it wrong?

no. one. absolutely no one. in NORMAL circles of society says "how much energy is left" in your whatever.

they say how much POWER is left. it is called a POWER METER/GAUGE/LEVEL in normal circles.

what did I do wrong that you disagree with specifically?

ENERGY is how many KWH the battery has? Correct? POWER is the ability to DO something with that energy?

the MILES LEFT is a measure of available POWER. NOT available energy. that is KWH.

am I wrong? specifically how?

"Power is the instantaneous expression of energy. I.e. 80kW"

I do not disagree. you are absolutely right.

problem is we are not talking about how much power you can give to the motor.

we are talking about how much power is in the BATTERY.


Now I am really confused.

" The amount of energy at your disposal can be used to determine how far you can go, as long as you know the parameters of how that energy will be expended."

which...... IS POWER !!!!!!!

Avaialble energy. + resistance + temperature + speed + demand = POWER = HOW FAR I am go.

ENERGY + Parameters of usage = POWER. the ability to DO something. in this case. How Far.

THIS is what the GOM is trying to do and does very poorly.

 

[mbender]

Now that that argument -- I mean discussion -- has been peaceably resolved ;-), would the OP or someone please add an 'h' to the end of this topic's title? It's really bugging me!!

Oh, and fix the 'case' of the letters while they're at it? I just noticed that one can change the title in one's own post(!), but I'm not sure what happens when it is actually published. About to find out...

Thanks!

 

[Nubo]

Again you ignore the posted definition of power and how I used the word in my quote.

how is it wrong? FYI "scientific" equals "engineering" in this context.

Is the definition I posted wrong? am I somehow reading it wrong?

You may have responded before I was done editing my last post with definitions of energy vs. power.

no. one. absolutely no one. in NORMAL circles of society says "how much energy is left" in your whatever.

they say how much POWER is left. it is called a POWER METER/GAUGE/LEVEL in normal circles.

I guess I'm abnormal. I think of my battery as a store of energy. And that's how I express it.

ENERGY is how many KWH the battery has? Correct? POWER is the ability to DO something with that energy?

Energy is the ability to do something. Power is how much energy you're using at any particular point in time. You can't do anything without time passing.

the MILES LEFT is a measure of available POWER. NOT available energy. that is KWH.

Miles left is a guess, but it is based on available energy kWh. The guess-o-meter takes the available kWh and applies that to its estimate of how many miles you will obtain per kWh.

problem is we are not talking about how much power you can give to the motor.

we are talking about how much power is in the BATTERY.

I'm talking about how much energy is in the battery.

 

[mbender]

no. one. absolutely no one. in NORMAL circles of society says "how much energy is left" in your whatever.

they say how much POWER is left. it is called a POWER METER/GAUGE/LEVEL in normal circles.

No one in my circles uses any of the nomenclature that you claim normal people use. Even when referring to physical stamina -- say to clean up after a party or the like -- people will ask, "Do you have enough (energy) left in you to wash the dishes?" (e.g.), NOT "Do you have enough power left in you ... ?" And so on... any number of examples, for people or 'things'.

Now I am really confused.

FINALLY, I think this is something most of us might agree with! The typos, random.periods, and MIXED use of Case doesn't help your, er, case, either.

 

[nerys]

NO. ENERGY in my cell phone battery fully charged would be 3200mah

POWER in my cell phone batttery would be a typical 6+ hours of heavy usage.

energy is NOT the ability to do something. that is power. my god man I just posted the definition. maybe you think I am lying here is a link to another definition.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/power" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Full Definition of POWER
1
a (1) : ability to act or produce an effect (2) : ability to get extra-base hits (3) : capacity for being acted upon or undergoing an effect

18.5kwh is the ENERGY in my battery.

60 miles or 90 miles conditions dependent is the POWER in my battery. in BOTH cases energy is the same. 18.5kwh energy is useless here. meaningless.

"I guess I'm abnormal. I think of my battery as a store of energy. And that's how I express it. "

GREAT. good for you. we agree. a battery IS a store of energy.

problem is I do not care. I am not interested in how much energy it can hold. I am interested in how much POWER I can get from it.

the GOM measures available predicted POWER not ENERGY.

"Energy is the ability to do something. "

NO. that is power. as per the dictionary.

"Power is how much energy you're using at any particular point in time."

no. that is DEMAND. (how hard you press the pedal) ???

"I'm talking about how much energy is in the battery."

YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH ENERGY IS IN THE BATTERY.

the ONLY ONE.

I am NOT talking about that. I am talking about how much POWER I can get from it.

 

[nerys]

I noticed you (intentionally?) switched away from batteries and to PEOPLE

Interesting that you intentionally elected to do that ?? subconciously?

"No one in my circles uses any of the nomenclature that you claim normal people use. Even when referring to physical stamina -- say to clean up after a party or the like -- people will ask, "Do you have enough (energy) left in you to wash the dishes?" (e.g.), NOT "Do you have enough power left in you ... ?" And so on... any number of examples, for people or 'things'."

I have never. not once in my entire LIFE heard a single human being EVER say how much energy is left in your phone. in your rc toy. in your portable tv.

not one single time in my entire 38 years on this planet has anyone EVER said that to me. ever.

it is always. how much power do you have left? do you have enough power? do you have enough CHARGE is common to though more rare it is usually a TIME value in that case. I have enough power or juice for 1 hour or 1 more flight.

when speaking of people. yep. we always say energy. we don't run off batteries. (not in the conventional sense) when tired we say we ran out of energy. when our PHONE dies we say we ran out of power. NEVER energy. not one time in my entire life.

the only time we talk about ENERGY in a gadget people STILL typically do not use the word energy (though it is the correct word) they talk about CAPACITY how much power (which is energy in this case of course) ie MAH in the battery since we care about WORK not CAPACITY and only care about capacity in so far as it can do more work. more POWER.

and you both REFUSE to acknowledge and respond to this so I will keep posting it

EXPLAIN THIS

pow·er

1.
the ability to do something or act in a particular way, especially as a faculty or quality.

 

[mbender]

This has become absurd, a self-parody. Someone needs to retake introductory physics.

Oh, and energy IS the ability (capacity) to do (perform) something (work).
http://physics.about.com/od/glossary/g/energy.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Buh-bye.

 

[nerys]

pow·er

1.
the ability to do something or act in a particular way, especially as a faculty or quality.

explain that.

buh bye

 

[Nubo]

pow·er

1.
the ability to do something or act in a particular way, especially as a faculty or quality.

explain that.

buh bye

Wonderful. I can use a dictionary to "prove" that our Mastiff is a "mechanical device for gripping". Explain that! :lol:

Many words have multiple meanings. In context of a discussion on how far you can go in an EV, the appropriate definitions are those used in Physics:

POWER - Energy consumed per unit time. Unit: watt

ENERGY - The ability to do work. Unit: watt-hour

 

[Stoaty]

pow·er

1.
the ability to do something or act in a particular way, especially as a faculty or quality.

Keep digging.

 

[nerys]

What digging. I am static. My position is unchanged from first post.

Everyone just keeps saying you are wrong and then silence when j ask how and why.

Answer? Just because we say so seems to be the answer.

So what digging exactky are you referring to?

Be precise now.

 

[Stoaty]

So what digging exactly are you referring to?

Be precise now.

When you find yourself in a hole... the first thing to do is to __________

 

[nerys]

I am sitting on the top of a hill. It is called dictionary hill. Explain to me why my hill is fiction.

 

[Stoaty]

I am sitting on the top of a hill. It is called dictionary hill. Explain to me why my hill is fiction.

Note to self: add to Foe list.

 

[mbender]

I am sitting on the top of a hill. It is called dictionary hill. Explain to me why my hill is fiction.

Now "dictionary" is a synonym for "Benny"???
Or perhaps you are mistaking a hill for a pile?

LOL!!!!!!!!!!1 :lol:

 

[cucopper]

pow·er

1.
the ability to do something or act in a particular way, especially as a faculty or quality.

This may be adding fuel to the fire, but since you are so keen on sticking to this particular dictionary definition, let's drill on it. It says the "ability" to do something, not the quantity of "thing" that can be done. In this context, "power" is used in a non-quantifiable manner, as in "do you have the power to make this happen." You either have the power (able to do) or you don't have the power (unable to do). Applying this strictly, your leaf has the power to move you around; "power" in this definition does not convey how much "moving around" your leaf can do.

Now, with a google search, an alternative definition of power is as follows:

4. energy that is produced by mechanical, electrical, or other means and used to operate a device.

There, it is linking power with energy, which we all agree is not a technically correct connection.