Purchased a used LEAF :(

[bwatl]

The charging issue has occurred again last night. Charge started around 11:30 and stopped around 75%. I was able to restart charging through the app without unplugging the EVSE. I notice that it had stopped again somewhere prior to 45 minutes, then restarted on it's own while I was standing in the garage and noticed it had stopped. It seems to be louder than I recall with my previous Leaf, but that could be entirely subjective.

Sound clip: https://ctxsupport.sharefile.com/d/s8f0ffa656224378b

Do I have any recourse with the dealer even though it's an "as-is" sale in Alabama? The car is certified pre-owned.

 

[bwatl]

Usually by now one of us would have asked this, but we didn't, that I see. What is the build date on the driver's side door jamb sticker? It's not likely to be an early (Jan-March) build with 12 bars showing, but maybe it got baked on a dealer lot before being sold.

03/13 was the build date.

 

[bwatl]

When the charging stopped abnormally, upon putting the car to READY, was there a yellow ! triangle warning that persisted power off? If you turn on the service menu on Leaf Spy, does it show any DTCs?

The car might need a PDM service campaign applied. I think it was http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=15655.

My former leased car hit a premature charging stoppage issue ~2200 miles into leasing at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=329929#p329929. It needed NTB13-069 applied. There might've been one more PDM/OBC TSB before NTB13-098.

I'm dropping the car off with a local dealer this morning. Symptoms don't match exactly, so I guess we will see what they find. I didnt look for the warning light as I unplugged it and plugged it back in and it started working. Great information in your post, thanks!

 

[GerryAZ]

The charger is covered by the 5-year, 60,000-mile EV power train warranty so take it to a local Nissan dealer.

Gerry

Edited to add: I see your last post shows you are taking it to the dealer. You could express your concern about the battery and ask them if the certified pre-owned program gives you any options.

 

[bwatl]

Dealer called and said they applied two TSBs. I think they were NTB13-069 & NTB13-098, but I'll confirm when I pick up the car.

 

[Phatcat73]

Is the original warranty expired?

Regarding degradation. I just lost my first bar about a month ago at 82% SOH (build 1/13) in a mild climate. So you're close to losing yours. And as your vehicle came from a hot climate to a hot climate, you'll now be playing the 5yr battery replacement lottery. You'll either be rooting for the battery to degrade faster or slow down. It may take a few weeks to get actual Leafspy reading adjustments if the car sat on the lot for a while or hasn't had it's batteries balanced. Suggest charging to a 100% a few times from a low charge to sort out the balancing.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Usually by now one of us would have asked this, but we didn't, that I see. What is the build date on the driver's side door jamb sticker? It's not likely to be an early (Jan-March) build with 12 bars showing, but maybe it got baked on a dealer lot before being sold.

03/13 was the build date.

You do have an early build "Canary Pack" then. Most of them lose capacity faster than this, unless kept in a cool climate. I'm now quite concerned that you'll lost capacity fast, but not fast enough to get a new pack under warranty. I really hope it was a BMS reset...

 

[bwatl]

You do have an early build "Canary Pack" then. Most of them lose capacity faster than this, unless kept in a cool climate. I'm now quite concerned that you'll lost capacity fast, but not fast enough to get a new pack under warranty. I really hope it was a BMS reset...

Well, that's a drag. So basically this battery would have to die in less than 2 years based off the original warranty of 5 years from the in-service date? Would the in-service date be when the care was actually sold? Apparently the Certified Pre-Owned designation does nothing for the battery capacity warranty. http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/nissan-plugs-electric-leaf-into-certified-pre-owned-vehicles-program This isn't great news.

You do have an early build "Canary Pack" then. Most of them lose capacity faster than this, unless kept in a cool climate. I'm now quite concerned that you'll lost capacity fast, but not fast enough to get a new pack under warranty. I really hope it was a BMS reset...

I wasn't aware that the early 2013s had the Canary pack. That certainly explains the difference I'm seeing with this car vs my last Leaf. I'm guessing it wasn't a BMS reset based off what I know so far.

 

[cwerdna]

Dealer called and said they applied two TSBs. I think they were NTB13-069 & NTB13-098, but I'll confirm when I pick up the car.

I would think that NTB13-098 supersedes NTB13-069 since they seem to both involving reflashing/reprogramming the PDM.

I wasn't aware that the early 2013s had the Canary pack. That certainly explains the difference I'm seeing with this car vs my last Leaf. I'm guessing it wasn't a BMS reset based off what I know so far.

Well, it's terminology that someone coined here, possibly Leftie. From this forum and others Leaf FB groups I'm on, there's plenty of evidence to suggest that '13 Leafs w/build months of 4/2013 or later seem to have better batteries in terms of degradation than those w/previous build months. It is unclear where the cutoff exactly is as Nissan's never acknowledged this change, AFAIK.

It seems like pre-4/2013 Leaf batteries are no better than those on '11 and '12 Leafs.

 

[bwatl]

According to the dealer invoice, it was NTB14-083, which is listed as Improper PDM Programming, Reprogrammed PDM as per Nissan Bulletin NTB14-083.

I have to concur that based of my experience with a later 2013 model and this one, there's a drastic difference. I never noticed any degradation in 2 years with my first Leaf.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The strange thing is that the physical pack design changed slightly in 2013, so my best guess is that they kept using the chemical electrolyte "mix" from the early cars until April of 2013, putting it in the new cases.

 

[cwerdna]

According to the dealer invoice, it was NTB14-083, which is listed as Improper PDM Programming, Reprogrammed PDM as per Nissan Bulletin NTB14-083.

Thank you!

Per TSB I downloaded via http://x.nissanhelp.com/forums/local_links.php?catid=783&sort=d&pp=10&page=2

2013 - 2014 LEAF; VEHICLE 12VDC CHARGING SYSTEM STOPS WITH DTC P0A94 AND/OR B2902 PRESENT
This bulletin supersedes NTB14-061 and has had DTC B2902 added to the title and to the If You Confirm section. No other changes have been made to the body

APPLIED VEHICLE VIN AND DATE: 2013 LEAF (ZE0) All
2014 LEAF (ZE0) Built before 1N4AZ0CP(*)EC 332878 / Jan 30, 2014

2013-2014 LEAF; VEHICLE 12VDC CHARGING SYSTEM STOPS WITH DTC P0A94 AND/OR B2902 PRESENT
The EV warning light is ON.
And
CHARGER / PD MODULE (Power Delivery Module or PDM) DTC P0A94 (DC/DC Converter) and/or B2902 (PDM Memory Error) are stored.
And
The vehicle’s current CHARGER / PD MODULE software version is in “Table A” on page 9.

 

[bwatl]

Well, that didn't resolve the issue. It was around 18% when I plugged it in last night. At 5 AM this morning it was at 25%. I heard the EVSE click on when shortly after I opened the app to check on it. Over the next hour I could here it start and stop multiple times. Several times when the car stopped charging all 3 lights on the dash would blink and the car was beeping. Video: https://ctxsupport.sharefile.com/d/s54ec4dec76d4d76b

I assume this was happening before I picked it up because the car wasn't fully charged when I got there, and I had asked them to make sure it was, so I'm guessing they assumed it was finished when it stopped. I'd still like to charge another car to rule out issues with my EVSE, but I have no reason to suspect any issues with it.

 

[rosier9]

This does not look like fun. The good news I suppose, is that it's all warranty covered.

 

[gshepherd]

Hmm. Almost like a flaky "proximity" sense line on the car or the J1772 handle. If that went intermittent, I imagine the car would act like that - as if connecting and disconnecting randomly. But, could be something else.

I'd check both the J1772 handle and charge port on the car for any foreign matter, and also try a public charge station. If it acts the same, take it in for a check.

 

[bwatl]

It seems to do it worse when the battery is lower. Once it got to around 40% this morning it didn't do it anymore. I took it to the dealer again and got a rental. We will see if they find anything. I need to find someone local that will let me charge their car, just so I can get a sanity check on my EVSE.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'd be looking at all applicable "lemon Laws" that allow for the car to be returned because it couldn't be fixed.

Well, that's a drag. So basically this battery would have to die in less than 2 years based off the original warranty of 5 years from the in-service date?

Not die, but lose four full bars of capacity. It's actually a bit odd that the car hasn't lost more bars by now, given the hot climate and the build date. Maybe it was in an air-conditioned garage with the first owner...

 

[bwatl]

I'd be looking at all applicable "lemon Laws" that allow for the car to be returned because it couldn't be fixed.

I'm sure I have to give them more opportunities to fix it. At this point, I guess it's probably better if they can't.

Not die, but lose four full bars of capacity. It's actually a bit odd that the car hasn't lost more bars by now, given the hot climate and the build date. Maybe it was in an air-conditioned garage with the first owner...

Agreed. It was in Dallas originally, then Irving, and later somewhere in Oklahoma. The original sale date was June of 2013. I'm not sure if that is the "in service" date. It sat for 4 months this year prior to my purchase, which I don't think helped much.

Carfax: https://ctxsupport.sharefile.com/d/sf7cb328a35e4895b

 

[bwatl]

How difficult would a battery swap be? There are a couple of wrecked 2015 Leafs in the area with low miles. I saw a vid on YouTube and it didn't look like it would be that bad.

EDIT: I found this thread. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=20154

 

[bwatl]

Lost the first capacity bar at 12,576 miles.