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I did a test drive at the Autobahn Country Club (Joliet, IL) for the Chicago "Double Black Dual Motor" Winter Tour last weekend. 0-60ish on cold wet asphalt, salem, then go thru 6"-8" of rutted snow for 100'. Then some other local road driving. Quite impressive. Ridiculous traction control.
 
Shipment/registration figures reported by the WSJ indicate Tesla was stuck with close to 2,000 unsold Ss in China, even after cutting imports back to only 10 last January:

Tesla Runs Out of Charge in China

Electric-car maker to cut jobs as it struggles to gain traction in China


Updated March 9, 2015 8:45 a.m. ET

SHANGHAI—Telsa Motors Inc.’s plan to cut jobs in China underscores the electric-car pioneer’s struggles in the country, a crucial market for the developing technology.

Tesla’s cuts follow a near doubling of the company’s global staff in 2014 to 10,161 employees from 5,859 a year earlier.

The electric-car maker has been pursuing dramatic growth even as it continues to rack up losses. The company’s fourth-quarter loss widened to $108 million, missing analysts’ forecasts, as total car deliveries fell short of expectations.

Tesla spokesman Gary Tao said the restructuring showed the company’s commitment to China. “We’re not just leaving. We’re trying to serve the market,” he said.

...According to investment research firm JL Warren Capital, just under 2,500 Teslas were registered in the nine months last year when Tesla was delivering its cars to Chinese customers. Tesla declined to comment on the figures at that time.

More recent data suggest 2015 was also off to a rocky start. Some 469 Tesla cars were registered in China in the first month of this year, up 6% from December’s 442 and on par with November’s 471 cars, according to analysis by JL Warren. The research firm also says Tesla imported just 10 Model S cars into China in January, down sharply from the more than 440 brought into China the month before. Tesla declined to comment on the figures but a spokesman said at the time the company was “confident” about its business in China...
http://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-cuts-jobs-in-china-1425870828?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“WTH, sell it to the Koreans then”

Tesla said to eye South Korea as dumping ground for unsold Chinese Model S

March 9, 2015 By Bertel Schmitt

“WTH, sell it to the Koreans then”

According to a usually very reliable South-Korean source, Tesla my want to partake in the sudden South Korean import boom, while solving some of its problems next door in China. According to the source, there have been discussions with a South Korean company that expressed interest in becoming a Tesla importer. The company was offered approximately 300 new Model S that currently are sitting in Tesla’s inventory in China. The cars are said to be fully loaded, half of them are 85 kW units.

The importer was told that the Model S already has lost its novelty appeal in China. Chinese customers increasingly balk at the lack of space in the back (Chinese in that bracket typically have a driver) along with the lack of tax savings (China insists on home-grown EVs .) There also are complaints about the interior build quality, which does not measure up with the competition by Daimler, BMW and Audi. According to the source, potential upscale South Korean customers also criticize the fit and finish, and the deal may not be struck.

The prospective importer is said to be experienced and successful in high-end retailing in South Korea, China, and elsewhere in Asia. Should the deal come together, it would be a departure from Tesla’s usual insistence on selling directly to the end-user...

We’ve got mail from Ricardo Reyes @teslamotors.com

“Comment: Your post about Model S being dumped in S. Korea is nonsense. Your “source” is wrong. Please remove the entire post. There is no truth to it.”

http://dailykanban.com/2015/03/tesla-said-eye-south-korea-dumping-ground-unsold-chinese-model-s/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
I wonder what Elon is up to now...

"Tesla promises to 'end' Model S range anxiety on March 19th."

http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/15/tesla-range-event-march-19/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
TomT said:
I wonder what Elon is up to now...

Tesla promises to 'end' Model S range anxiety on March 19th.

http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/15/tesla-range-event-march-19/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Send a self-destruct command OTA?
 
TomT said:
I wonder what Elon is up to now...

"Tesla promises to 'end' Model S range anxiety on March 19th."

http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/15/tesla-range-event-march-19/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm guessing it is an improved Navigation system. Perhaps integrating plugshare, and/or range based calculations beyond the basic ones that are there now.
 
Zythryn said:
TomT said:
I wonder what Elon is up to now...

"Tesla promises to 'end' Model S range anxiety on March 19th."

http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/15/tesla-range-event-march-19/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm guessing it is an improved Navigation system. Perhaps integrating plugshare, and/or range based calculations beyond the basic ones that are there now.
Maybe they can put the kid who wrote evtriplanner on the payroll.
 
GRA said:
Zythryn said:
TomT said:
I wonder what Elon is up to now...

"Tesla promises to 'end' Model S range anxiety on March 19th."

http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/15/tesla-range-event-march-19/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm guessing it is an improved Navigation system. Perhaps integrating plugshare, and/or range based calculations beyond the basic ones that are there now.
Maybe they can put the kid who wrote evtriplanner on the payroll.

I'd like to see that.
Adding to it an estimate of the amount of battery power needed to warm up the battery pack and other variables would give a very accurate estimated range.
 
Zythryn said:
TomT said:
I wonder what Elon is up to now...

"Tesla promises to 'end' Model S range anxiety on March 19th."

http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/15/tesla-range-event-march-19/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm guessing it is an improved Navigation system. Perhaps integrating plugshare, and/or range based calculations beyond the basic ones that are there now. <snip>

I'd like to see that.
Adding to it an estimate of the amount of battery power needed to warm up the battery pack and other variables would give a very accurate estimated range.
I'm sure the Teslarati are already aware of this, but might as well put the links here:

http://insideevs.com/tesla-range-anxiety-announcement/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097336_elon-musk-tesla-model-s-ends-range-anxiety-with-smart-navigation-trip-planner" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/03/19/tesla-model-s-software-update-range-anxiety/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/03/20150319-tesla.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Unfortunately, AVTA is not (yet) testing Tesla packs, as they are for other BEVs, so it may be quite a long time before we have an objective view of S battery life/capacity loss.

http://avt.inl.gov/fsev.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Remember that the results below were of cycle life when "fully charging and discharging the batteries to 0%", which no real-life S driver will ever do, nor is there any indication of whether thermal management replicated conditions of an S battery pack.

I can't find the entire original presentation, reported on below and elsewhere.

Anyone else find it?

Andreas Gutsch of the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology has enlivened the discussion about the quality and safety of lithium-ion storage batteries with new tests.

KIT also caused a stir last summer when it published tests on battery storage and a checklist to estimate the system safety.

In comparing battery storage, you will probably look at what kind of lifespan the manufacturer promises and what the system costs. However, there usually is no guarantee for the given lifespan. The results presented by Andreas Gutsch of the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) at the PV Symposium in Bad Staffelstein, Germany, last week, are therefore sure to be quite explosive. According to his findings, some lithium-ion cells integrated in storage systems lost up to 30% of their capacity after just 1,000 cycles. That is a possible criterion signifying the expiration of cell’s lifespan. Other cells are well above that even after 5,000 cycles. The range, it turns out, is huge.

However, cells that hold fewer cycles are not necessarily of lesser quality, the KIT storage expert explains. “That depends on the price.” While this is known, the lifespan is not. "The market is completely opaque in terms of performance," Gutsch said.

He and his colleagues therefore put a large number of lithium-ion battery cells under a particularly stressful test, fully charging and discharging the batteries to 0%, as is common for tests in the automotive industry. In battery storage systems, the cells are usually discharged only up to a state of charge of 20%, so that the cycle life in absolute terms is likely to be longer than in the KIT-tests (typically referred to as 80% Depth of Discharge, or 80% DOD). While the KIT tests do not offer an absolute statement about the lifespan of the cells in a battery storage system, they do offer a good comparison between different cells as the test conditions for all of the cells were the same.

Differences by country of origin

Gutsch decline to present the results of individual cells. "It's not so easy to obtain the cells," he said. It was therefore necessary to agree with manufacturers’ wishes not to publish the results with specific names. He nevertheless revealed a regional distribution of the results that may surprise some.

In a graph, Gutsch offered a comparison of the maximum capacity of cells based on the number of cycles they had behind them. All four or five cells from China that were in the test ranked in the bottom third of the coordinate system, indicating that their performance declined particularly rapidly. All cells from Germany and Japan ranked in the upper third, while those from the United States and South Korea were either in the upper or middle third.

Gutsch did offer detailed information on one particularly successful model, the Tesla battery. It only lasted 400 cycles. “This battery is built specifically for use in a car," he said. If an electric vehicle owner is able to drive 500 kilometers with a fully charged battery, he can drives 200,000 kilometers with a battery that lasts 400 cycles. A Tesla battery can therefore not be used for stationary applications...

http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/details/beitrag/kit-test--some-battery-cells-last-five-times-longer-than-others_100018517/#ixzz3VbzUQLs3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Probably already known by some northern CA Tesla S sedan drivers but perhaps worth a mention to the rest of us without the EVSE infrastructure that CA seems to have a big leg up on ... we were vacationing in Sonoma Wine country and there they were, right outside our hotel (Fairmont Sonoma Mission Inn); one even in-use by a new Tesla S with temporary tags

tesla%20at%20sonoma.jpg


Great hotel by the way, we saw all manner of EV on our trip besides the Tesla S, a decent amount of LEAF's, Soul EV, MBZ b-class, a few Chevy Sparks; hard to miss telling them apart with those big CA 'clean air' stickers so coveted. We also used Silvercar out of SFO to tool around wine country (they rent brand new silver Audi A4's, nice step up from your typical econo car rentals).
 
Follow up on reports that came out last month on Tesla's China problems.

Lot of details on Tesla corporate/PRC politics in the long story, which I find similar in their near-inscrutability.

Sounds like it was primarily a fiasco involving scalpers, grey market sales, and various other parties trying to make a fast buck, and/or a big monthly sales number.

Tesla’s China Syndrome: Who knew what, and when did they know it?

April 1, 2015 By Bertel Schmitt

Waves of cancellations caused Tesla sales crash in China

Last weekend, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said “speculators and scalpers misled the company” to believe that demand for the cars was “extremely high” in China, as China’s government-owned news agency Xinhua reported. Cars were ordered, and shipped to China. When the cars arrived in China, many people canceled their orders, and thousands of Model S ended up unsold in warehouses. Let’s try to find out who was misled by whom. What did Elon Musk really know, and when did he really know it?...
http://dailykanban.com/2015/04/teslas-china-syndrome-knew-know/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyway, if the article is correct in its conclusions below, it doesn't sound like Tesla has gotten off to a fast start in the world's largest vehicle market:

...Nearly half of the cars shipped to China in 2014 have not hit the road. The bottom fell out of the reseller/scalper/arbitrageur business. New Model S can be had at steep discounts for immediate delivery at resellers. They compete with new Model S available for immediate delivery and at steep discounts at Tesla’s official stores in China...

(from previous thread page)=edatoakrun" Shipment/registration figures reported by the WSJ indicate Tesla was stuck with close to 2,000 unsold Ss in China, even after cutting imports back to only 10 last January:

Tesla Runs Out of Charge in China

Electric-car maker to cut jobs as it struggles to gain traction in China


Updated March 9, 2015 8:45 a.m. ET

SHANGHAI—Telsa Motors Inc.’s plan to cut jobs in China underscores the electric-car pioneer’s struggles in the country, a crucial market for the developing technology.

Tesla’s cuts follow a near doubling of the company’s global staff in 2014 to 10,161 employees from 5,859 a year earlier.

The electric-car maker has been pursuing dramatic growth even as it continues to rack up losses. The company’s fourth-quarter loss widened to $108 million, missing analysts’ forecasts, as total car deliveries fell short of expectations.

Tesla spokesman Gary Tao said the restructuring showed the company’s commitment to China. “We’re not just leaving. We’re trying to serve the market,” he said.

...According to investment research firm JL Warren Capital, just under 2,500 Teslas were registered in the nine months last year when Tesla was delivering its cars to Chinese customers. Tesla declined to comment on the figures at that time.

More recent data suggest 2015 was also off to a rocky start. Some 469 Tesla cars were registered in China in the first month of this year, up 6% from December’s 442 and on par with November’s 471 cars, according to analysis by JL Warren. The research firm also says Tesla imported just 10 Model S cars into China in January, down sharply from the more than 440 brought into China the month before. Tesla declined to comment on the figures but a spokesman said at the time the company was “confident” about its business in China...
http://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-cuts-jobs-in-china-1425870828?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Tesla has announced a new 70D model.
Looks like the 60 is being discontinued.

The Base 60 started at $71k.
The new, Base 70D starts at $75k and comes standard with AWD, Parking Sensors, Emergency Brake assist, Navigation w live traffic routing, 8 year unlimited mileage drivetrain and battery warranty, and Supercharger access.

The 60 would have been more expensive with those options, so I take this as an indication they have been able to lower some costs, most likely batteries.

Anyone want to take over my Leaf lease ;-)
 
Zythryn said:
Tesla has announced a new 70D model.
Looks like the 60 is being discontinued.

The Base 60 started at $71k.
The new, Base 70D starts at $75k and comes standard with AWD, Parking Sensors, Emergency Brake assist, Navigation w live traffic routing, 8 year unlimited mileage drivetrain and battery warranty, and Supercharger access.

The 60 would have been more expensive with those options, so I take this as an indication they have been able to lower some costs, most likely batteries.

Anyone want to take over my Leaf lease ;-)
Cool.

I'm waiting for them to come out with the "Value Edition", 2WD, 50kwh upgradeable, supercharger access available by annual subscription, 17" wheels with plastic wheel covers, AM/FM radio only, all other features are add ons (available OTA)
$49,995 before tax credit
 
Zythryn said:
Tesla has announced a new 70D model.
Looks like the 60 is being discontinued.

The Base 60 started at $71k.
The new, Base 70D starts at $75k and comes standard with AWD, Parking Sensors, Emergency Brake assist, Navigation w live traffic routing, 8 year unlimited mileage drivetrain and battery warranty, and Supercharger access.

The 60 would have been more expensive with those options, so I take this as an indication they have been able to lower some costs, most likely batteries.

Anyone want to take over my Leaf lease ;-)

Or Tesla's sales are dropping off and they need to offset the decline in the over $100K product.
Remember, Tesla and the stock market don't really care about profitability, i.e. as indicative
of the stock price's resilience irrespective of earnings reports.
 
lorenfb said:
Or Tesla's sales are dropping off and they need to offset the decline in the over $100K product.
Remember, Tesla and the stock market don't really care about profitability, i.e. as indicative
of the stock price's resilience irrespective of earnings reports.
This is luxury and expensive car, and more and more directed toward performance than fuel saving and efficiency. I thought and still think that EV should be efficient, however HP and and 0 to 60 is what is emphasized by Tesla.
 
lorenfb said:
Or Tesla's sales are dropping off and they need to offset the decline in the over $100K product.
Remember, Tesla and the stock market don't really care about profitability, i.e. as indicative
of the stock price's resilience irrespective of earnings reports.

Seems like a stretch.
A few days ago Tesla announced a record quarter in terms of deliveries.
Local activity in our area is going nuts, and the local Tesla club may have to move to a bigger place as we have too many new members.

Looks like all Teslas are now AWD, all have Supercharger access standard.

To me, it looks like they are streamlining their production, as well as giving themselves a bit of a gap between the upcoming 200 mile EVs and the base Model S.
 
Zythryn said:
Seems like a stretch.
A few days ago Tesla announced a record quarter in terms of deliveries.
Local activity in our area is going nuts, and the local Tesla club may have to move to a bigger place as we have too many new members.

Looks like all Teslas are now AWD, all have Supercharger access standard.

To me, it looks like they are streamlining their production, as well as giving themselves a bit of a gap between the upcoming 200 mile EVs and the base Model S.

I am not really interested to buy T, I can't justify price, I do not see fuel saving there too. At present cost of fuel for T and Prius is same in my part of the world. I do not need to drive luxury car to work. I am waiting for T that will beat Leaf in efficiency and price. Wonder how long that will take?
 
EdmondLeaf said:
I am not really interested to buy T, I can't justify price, I do not see fuel saving there too. At present cost of fuel for T and Prius is same in my part of the world. I do not need to drive luxury car to work. I am waiting for T that will beat Leaf in efficiency and price. Wonder how long that will take?

Won't happen, different markets.
The Tesla is all about replacing the cars with more luxury items in them.
The Leaf is the more efficient economy version.

Both play an important role in replacing ICE vehicles with EVs. Both, and others, will be needed to reach that goal.

Where I am at, the Tesla costs about half what the Prius would to fuel. I didn't, however, buy the Tesla to save money (just a happy side benifit).

The Model 3 will be more efficient, possibly very close to the efficiency of the Leaf today. By the time it is available, I expect there to be an even more efficient Leaf.
 
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