Official Tesla Model S thread

[keydiver]

Tesla isn't selling a 50k BEV, not sure why you would qualify it that way. Tesla's base model starts at about 71k (63k after rebate).

I think he is requoting Musk's oft-touted $57,000 base model S, which was $50,000 after the Federal rebate. He almost had me hooked on that one, until they pulled out several features and optioned them, and denied access to the Supercharger network.

 

[Zythryn]

Tesla isn't selling a 50k BEV, not sure why you would qualify it that way. Tesla's base model starts at about 71k (63k after rebate).

I think he is requoting Musk's oft-touted $57,000 base model S, which was $50,000 after the Federal rebate. He almost had me hooked on that one, until they pulled out several features and optioned them, and denied access to the Supercharger network.

Probably, but that battery size was discontinued because of so few orders. So calling a Tesla, in the present tense, a 50k Tesla makes no sense.

As for the things it doesn't have, sure, a base model doesn't have all the things the higher cost models have. I wish I had ordered one as well, as it would have made a great second car for us.
I am still looking forward to a 150 mile LEAF as that is exactly what we were looking for.

 

[hill]

^ Man these lawyers think of everything.

You pay for what you get

who wouldn't want it that way ... when it's for YOU though
.

 

[edatoakrun]

Tesla isn't selling a 50k BEV, not sure why you would qualify it that way. Tesla's base model starts at about 71k (63k after rebate).

I think he is requoting Musk's oft-touted $57,000 base model S, which was $50,000 after the Federal rebate. He almost had me hooked on that one, until they pulled out several features and optioned them, and denied access to the Supercharger network.

Probably, but that battery size was discontinued because of so few orders. So calling a Tesla, in the present tense, a 50k Tesla makes no sense...

The use of the present tense is correct because the current S is the same car Tesla claimed it would sell for the ~$50,000 price (under $50,000, actually) when it was introduced ~5 years ago.

There is a valid point that I should have noted that the promised price, under $50,000, was post-rebate.

And, to summarize from the Tesla Forum thread link I posted, the actual average selling price (also post Rebate) seems to be almost exactly twice that $50,000.

As to Elon's promising/pricing/optioning practices, I am reminded of the classic example of salesmanship on the clip below.

If you're in a hurry, just skip ~5 minutes into the video, andwatch the final 90 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRTpkjlwH9k" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[edatoakrun]

Edmunds seems to be having an... interesting ...experience with the S in their long-term test.

2013 Tesla Model S: Is the Third Drive Unit the Charm?

When we last left our 2013 Tesla Model S, it was on the back of a flat-bed tow truck, having died on my colleague, Matt Jones. It spent the night in a tow yard and was delivered to the Tesla service department in West Los Angeles the following morning.

Vince, our service advisor, was great about giving me updates throughout the course of the day. "We're getting a bunch of faults from the drive unit and main battery pack," said Vince. "Our technicians are taking a look at it now. I'll call you when I have more information."

It sounded serious.

He called back about an hour later and said they would be replacing the drive unit and the high-voltage battery assembly. I asked Vince what caused the problems, but he said they don't open up the batteries at the service center. Like most warranty issues on new cars, the parts are replaced at the dealer and the old ones are sent to corporate headquarters for the engineers to study and see what went wrong. The service invoice didn't give me much more to go on, "During vehicle logs review, found fault related to internal drive unit failure. Replaced complete drive unit assembly per TDS case #9571."

If you're keeping score, our Model S is now on its third drive unit: the one that came with the car, the one that was replaced in November, and this latest one. And that wasn't the only thing that was replaced on this service visit...

http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-is-the-third-drive-unit-the-charm.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Direct link to all long-term test reports:

http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/maintenance.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

You have to think they are getting on top of this; that would be a real mofo if it weren't under warranty. Any concern over the car being destroyed in a fire would quickly be replaced by a concern that it wouldn't.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Fire? Oh yeah, any updates on the Toronto garage fire with an unplugged S?

 

[GlennD]

It is refreshing that the motor problems are not only a Toyota RAV4 EV problem. A warranty really helps but the bottom line is that you are spending un-necessary time in a loaner.

Six months ago I purchased a second leaf even though i wanted a RAV4. Time is proving I made a good choice.

 

[smkettner]

Third drive unit? So after 4yr/50k warranty what does that cost?

 

[cwerdna]

Third drive unit?

Well, it's the 3rd drive unit but really the 2nd replacement. Hopefully people noticed they also replaced the HV battery pack and the 12 volt battery in this latest repair visit.

Seems odd that all THREE would need (?) replacement.

The previous replacement was due to "ominous noise", as they termed it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KzoiNDsbbE&feature=player_embedded" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v2YEovh33YY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Both the videos were from http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-ominous-noise.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Replacement was done in November 2013 per http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-noise-is-gone.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Noise cropped up in October 2013 at the ~10K mile mark.


IIRC, on the Rav4 EV side, I don't believe many (any) Rav4 EV motors/drive units have outright failed, but it seems a fair # have been replaced due to noise. And a tiny few (not many that we know of, so far) have needed HV battery replacement. Can't recall many (or any?) 12 volt replacements.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Haven't heard of a 12 volt problem in the Rav4 EV. I had the exact same model 12 volt battery die on a 2010 Toyota Sienna mini-van after one year, so I replaced it with a Costco one.

I did kill the 12 volt once on my Rav4 EV, but that was associated with car problems, not the battery itself (I don't remember exactly what killed that, but I haven't replaced that battery).

I had the motor replaced, Tesla serial number 331, in my Rav4 due to excess noise. None has ever outright failed, to my knowledge. My car is serial number 134 (the production VIN series started at 1000, so my VIN serial number is 1134).

 

[Zythryn]

...
The use of the present tense is correct because the current S is the same car Tesla claimed it would sell for the ~$50,000 price (under $50,000, actually) when it was introduced ~5 years ago.

There is a valid point that I should have noted that the promised price, under $50,000, was post-rebate.

And, to summarize from the Tesla Forum thread link I posted, the actual average selling price (also post Rebate) seems to be almost exactly twice that $50,000.

I think you have an unreasonable bias.
All car companies advertise base model price.

When the Model S was first available, there was a 50k, after rebate, version available and has been purchased.

However, so few people were buying it, it didn't make sense for Tesla to produce it.
So they discontinued the base model.

Comparing the average selling price to the base price of a vehicle no longer available just isn't valid IMO.

Would you criticize Nissan for having an average sale price of $35k (total guess) with a base price of 22k after rebate?

I just don't see that comparison as meaningful.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Damn straight. But those fancy wheels and suede headliner are sooooo pretty, it's completely unreasonable to expect a guy to say no, so quoting tbat base price without such essentials is deceptive.

On a related topic, I heard a rumor that the gallery in Boca's Town Center Mall sold 28 cars the first week. I predict Boca will be crawling with them in a year. Small wonder, the place is so overrun with Mercedes BMW and Audi people need something new to stand out.

 

[MashedPotato]

When the Model S was first available, there was a 50k, after rebate, version available and has been purchased.

However, so few people were buying it, it didn't make sense for Tesla to produce it.
So they discontinued the base model.

The base model was never made. To say it was available is not an accurate depiction, from my perspective.

I placed a deposit for a Tesla from very early on, intending to buy the base model. I watched from the sidelines as delays occurred and then as they allocated resources to the higher models, waiting patiently for the above-mentioned base model to start being produced before I "finalized" my order. It didn't make sense to me to finalize the order not knowing what features/colors would ultimately be available. I assume there were others like me who were waiting.

The base model was cancelled with the announcement that not enough people were buying it. When I spoke to a Tesla rep, they offered to refund my deposit, that is all. The media reported that buyers of the base model were given upgrades to the next level up, but that was not my experience.

 

[cwerdna]

When the Model S was first available, there was a 50k, after rebate, version available and has been purchased.

However, so few people were buying it, it didn't make sense for Tesla to produce it.
So they discontinued the base model.

The base model was never made. To say it was available is not an accurate depiction, from my perspective.
...
The base model was cancelled with the announcement that not enough people were buying it. When I spoke to a Tesla rep, they offered to refund my deposit, that is all. The media reported that buyers of the base model were given upgrades to the next level up, but that was not my experience.

See http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-model-s-sales-exceed-target" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

No Model S shipped w/only a 40 kWh battery. They instead shipped cars w/60 kWh batteries (to those who'd ordered) and limited them to 40 kWh usable via software. There are a few folks on TeslaMotorsClub who have those.

 

[Zythryn]

When the Model S was first available, there was a 50k, after rebate, version available and has been purchased.

However, so few people were buying it, it didn't make sense for Tesla to produce it.
So they discontinued the base model.

The base model was never made. To say it was available is not an accurate depiction, from my perspective.
...

Interesting perspective.
Prices and options had been finalized. You could have made your choice anytime after November or so of 2012.
Many people did buy the $57k base model $49,900 or so after rebate).
However, it was a small fraction of the total orders. So they decided not to continue that model.
Those scores of buyers received a 60kWh pack, software limited to 40, at the same price point.

So yes, the 50k price point was available, and a very small percentage of people took them up on it.

 

[mitch672]

When the Model S was first available, there was a 50k, after rebate, version available and has been purchased.

However, so few people were buying it, it didn't make sense for Tesla to produce it.
So they discontinued the base model.

The base model was never made. To say it was available is not an accurate depiction, from my perspective.
...

Interesting perspective.
Prices and options had been finalized. You could have made your choice anytime after November or so of 2012.
Many people did buy the $57k base model $49,900 or so after rebate).
However, it was a small fraction of the total orders. So they decided not to continue that model.
Those scores of buyers received a 60kWh pack, software limited to 40, at the same price point.

So yes, the 50k price point was available, and a very small percentage of people took them up on it.

I believe the total count of 60kW Model S's sold as 40KW. (Via software limits), was about 400-500 total. These have about a 140 mile highway range. At anytime you can pay the $10K additional and they will enable it as a 60KW Model S (with about a 200 mile range)

It was determined it was not worth the engineering effort and all that entails to design a 40KW pack, and all of the crash testing and approvals required.

 

[MashedPotato]

When the Model S was first available, there was a 50k, after rebate, version available and has been purchased.

However, so few people were buying it, it didn't make sense for Tesla to produce it.
So they discontinued the base model.

The base model was never made. To say it was available is not an accurate depiction, from my perspective.
...

Interesting perspective.
Prices and options had been finalized. You could have made your choice anytime after November or so of 2012.
Many people did buy the $57k base model $49,900 or so after rebate).
However, it was a small fraction of the total orders. So they decided not to continue that model.
Those scores of buyers received a 60kWh pack, software limited to 40, at the same price point.

So yes, the 50k price point was available, and a very small percentage of people took them up on it.

It was possible to finalize an order for the 40kWh pack, but that is not to say that everything was final. The fact that the car was cancelled is an example of how things weren't final.

I would have been fortunate if I had finalized my order during that time. I felt I was being prudent to wait until the car was ready to be produced before finalizing my order. I can't imagine I was the only person that felt that way, so I'm saying the demand for the 40 was greater than was reported, since they didn't count those like me.

 

[TomT]

Nissan is surveying Tesla owners...

From Slashdot: "What do you do when you're the first to market with a mainstream item, and yet the competition seems to be a hotter commodity? Naturally you do your homework. That's exactly what Nissan is doing. With disappointing sales of its Leaf electric car, Nissan is doing the smart thing and talking to Tesla owners about their cars. One would assume this is in hopes of understanding how to better compete with the popular Silicon Valley upstart. The brand sent an email to Sacramento-area Model S owners with four elements ranging from general information and a web-based survey to asking owners to keep a driving diary and to come in for in-person interviews with Nissan staff. The question is: Is Nissan trying to get feedback on its marketplace and competition, or is the brand looking at either offering an electric car with longer range or planning to challenge Tesla with an upper end plug-in electric car?"

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1090478_nissan-surveys-tesla-owners-for-intelligence-on-electric-cars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[palmermd]

Nissan is surveying Tesla owners...

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1090478_nissan-surveys-tesla-owners-for-intelligence-on-electric-cars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We'll one thing we can say about Nissan is that they are good at asking questions in surveys. I'm not sure what they are doing with all this data, but they do ask for a lot of surveys to be taken. I just hope they can listen and not just hear the feedback.