Official Southern California Edison thread

[tbleakne]

I also got the letter, addressed to me as a customer on single meter whole house tariff TOU-D-TEV.
The link at the end of the letter,

http://on.sce.com/touoptions

takes you to a page with:

an EV charging photo,
a table for "Residential TOU" (no EV reference) that includes the new TOU time windows,
a table for the second meter tariff TOU-EV-1 called the "Electric Vehicle Plan,"

but I see no reference to TOU-D-TEV, which is consistent with the content of the letter saying I will be switched; there is no option to stay on it.

As others have remarked, shifting the On Peak period from 10am to 6pm to 2pm to 8pm has a big impact. I speculated on this thread many months ago that SCE might do something like this. I based this opinion on a solar payback analysis I had done for a friend who is in PG&E territory.

PG&E has a similar 2pm to 8pm On Peak window. This window dramatically drops your chances for running your meter deeply backwards from solar during On Peak. I have been getting my big summer credit in $, even with net positive kWh consumption, using the 10am to 6pm window, where I get the high price of On Peak Level 2. Unless you can get your On Peak deeply negative, you can't get this big payback price in Level 2. It appears that there may be no Level 2 in the new tariffs, but the single On Peak price is pretty high. In the PG&E case there is another difference on weekends with their Mid Peak time period that makes going negative even more difficult.

I agree with Abasile:

it would be nice to be able to mine the data from SCE's smart meter on our home

It is not hard to log in and do this, at least for a few days or a week. I recommend doing this.

I now see the TOU Option A, TOU Option B, and "Off Peak Savings Plan" under "Residential Plans" as linked to by smkettner on pg 53.
I will need time to analyze these, but I may go with Option A, even though it is risky, to avoid the $16/mo which sounds like real $.

At this time of year shade shuts down my solar at about 3:30pm, so I would get only about 1.5 hrs/day on peak production, vs 5.5 hrs from 10am to 3:30pm. In the summer, in addition to longer days and less shade, Daylight Savings Time will give us an extra hour, but it will still be a big hit. Running Peak Time until 8pm will of course increase Peak Time consumption. End of the solar gravy train.

The other big change that apparently is still being delayed, is that the new law signed in the Fall of 2013 relaxes the previous Net Metering rule that the price for a given time and level must be equal for both forward and backward flow. As some of us have remarked before, if they don't do this right we might lose our incentive to charge late night and we would instead switch to charging our cars mostly from solar, bypassing our SCE meter completely.

Maybe the grandfathering provision we heard about last year just applies to this equal-price Net Metering rule? If so, that could discourage us from putting in more solar to compensate for the reduced payback from these new rates. Installing more solar might disqualify us from being grandfathered.

 

[Valdemar]

Got a letter today, so this is what TOU-EV-1 folks get, including myself:

There are important changes to your Electric Vehicle Rate Plan effective January 1, 2015, and we want
you to be aware of them so there are no surprises. These changes will only affect the rate plan for your
separate meter for electric vehicle charging and not the rate plan for electricity used for the rest of your
home.
As you may know, electricity rates vary depending on the season of the year. SCE has shortened the
summer season when rates are higher. The summer season is changing from May 1 through October 31
to June 1 through September 30 - shortening it from six months to four months. This change will
provide you an additional two months of the winter season's lower rates from October 1through
May 31.
In addition to the shortened summer season, there will be a new fixed monthly charge of $2.64 for this
rate plan. The new monthly fixed charge is not designed to increase your total bill; rather, it is designed
to collect the fixed cost of the second meter and will work to offset, or lower, the variable energy
charges on your bill. The rate change goes into effect at midnight on January 1, 2015, therefore please
be aware you may receive two bills breaking up December and January. The January portion will include
the new pro-rated monthly charge amount and the rate charges that go into effect at the beginning of
the year.
We hope this information is helpful and you are able to take advantage of the lower pricing that can be
leveraged during the shorter summer season. If you would like more information on this rate change
please call1-800-4EV-INFO.

Nothing drastic as far as I can tell, personally, I should be able to offset at least some of the new $2.64 fee as I usually have to charge during the day on weekends (TOU-EV-1 doesn't offer off-peak on Sat/Sun during the day) with the shorter summer season. I do not quite understand the "it is designed to collect the fixed cost of the second meter and will work to offset, or lower, the variable energy charges on your bill" part, but it sounds like overall I may even be paying less than before.

 

[Boomer23]

What do you guys think about the 10 cents per kWh baseline credit that's included in TOU-D-A?

Since it's expressed as a negative quantity, is there the nefarious chance that this is a surcharge rather than a credit? I'm 90% inclined to think not, but how would this credit work on our monthly billing?

 

[smkettner]

I assume SCE will allocate the 10 cent credit based on usage up to the baseline allowance.

I also assume you do not get the credit while producing electricity. This could actually be a benefit? Doubtful.

Creates a tiered system but not exactly sure how it will affect the solar credits vs overnight EV charging.

Right now I plan to opt for TOU-A and see how it goes.

 

[poiuy09]

What about Off-Peak Savings (TOU-D-T) Plan?
It has 12PM - 6PM on-peak which gives 2 more hours for the meter to spin back for those who have solar. This plan will also get rid of Super Off-Peak for low off-peak rates.
I am guessing with this plan, we can still generate some negative on-peak kWh and manage to stay with low off-peak numbers.

From sce.com --

Keep in mind that if you switch from the Residential TOU rate to another rate plan, you will not be able to make another switch for a full 12 months.

 

[Boomer23]

I spent a few hours with spreadsheets and approximations last evening for my own usage case and I'm satisfied that TOU-D-A is the right plan for me.

I modeled a summer month and a winter month with both plan A and plan T, using my best estimates of my usage and solar production for those months. My TED system was useful for estimating solar generation during the various peak and off-peak times. I ignored Plan B because I ain't paying no $16 monthly service fee unless I'm forced to.

I also did a quick calculation for my 2014 usage if I were on the regular tiered residential Plan D, and I came up with an annual cost of $185.

Assuming all EV charging is done late night-early morning:
For my summer month on plan A, I got an estimated bill of negative $74.55 (in other words, a credit), and a total bill of negative $105.85 if we get the 10 cents per kWh baseline credit, which for me is $31.30 in summer.
For my summer month on plan T, I got an estimated bill of negative $16.28.

For my winter month on plan A, I got an estimated bill of $36.05, or a total bill of $9.83 if we get the 10 cents per kWh baseline credit, which for me would be $26.22 in winter.
For my winter month on plan T, I got an estimated bill of $73.18.

It's quite clear to me that plan A is best for our household. It's obviously not as beneficial as the current TEV plan, but the benefit of the 11 cent super off peak rate for car charging in plan A outweighs the earlier-in-the-day peak period and higher Tier 2 peak rates of plan T for solar generation for us. I haven't and I don't plan to try to model out a full year, but I'm guessing we'll still come in with a bill of close to zero for the year, plus the 91 cents a month service charge. If you are someone with solar who needs or likes to use air conditioning on more days of the year and later into the evening, I suppose you might come up with a different rate preference, but I doubt it.

If you don't have solar, but you charge an EV at night, I think that plan A will still be best for you because of the lower peak rates, but that could vary depending on your total household usage because plan T is a tiered plan. In other words, if your household uses a small amount of power and you are mostly in tier 1, you might make out better in plan T.

I called SCE today to speak for plan A. I was referred to the Plug-in Vehicle Group at 800-438-4636, which group I was told takes precedence for those of us with plug-in cars. I spoke with a lovely young woman who immediately put in my request for Plan A. She said that the change will take effect on my next monthly billing cycle if possible. Since today is the end of my current billing cycle, she wasn't sure if they would catch it in time for it to take effect tomorrow (the rate group people had left for the day). I told her that I don't care, as long as I get placed in Plan A when I'm forced out of Plan TEV.

I learned a couple of things from her:
1) From what she's been told, all of us who've had Plan TEV will be switched to Plan A by February. She told me that this is what they've been told, but it could change, and that sometimes "they" change things without telling the staff and sometimes customers know things before her group does.
2) She wasn't aware that the number of sign ups for either plan were limited.
3) We could request Plan B or the other TOU plan labeled Off-Peak Savings (TOU-D-T) or I assume even the domestic tiered plan D if we wish.
4) Plan TOU-D-T has existed for some time, plans A and B are new.

Here are some details about our household usage and solar generation for your reference.

We have a 5.16 kW DC solar array (24 panels of 215 W each on a 20 degree south-facing roof) in coastal Orange County, producing about 8,450 kWh per year on the single meter TOU-D-TEV plan. We charge a LEAF for about 11,000 miles of annual driving. Our total actual household usage last year was 9,590 kWh. We have central air conditioning but we only used AC on 41 days last year. We're retired, so we are home during Peak weekday hours. We have electric cooking but gas water heating, furnace and clothes dryer. We ended our most recent Net Metering Year last March with a net usage from SCE of 1,900 kWh and a billing balance of negative $342 dollars, which got canceled out yielding a bill for the year of $zero. Based on nine months, I'm estimating that our current net metering year (ending the beginning of next March) will end with a larger credit balance than last year.

 

[mwalsh]

^ Thanks for your most excellent analysis, Phil. I love it when you make my life easier.

The one thing I may find myself doing is installing a second L2 EVSE (or at least a 240V outlet) so both cars can be charged during SOP hours without me having to set the alarm for an ungodly hour to switch the one L2 between them.

 

[Boomer23]

^ Thanks for your most excellent analysis, Phil. I love it when you make my life easier.

The one thing I may find myself doing is installing a second L2 EVSE (or at least a 240V outlet) so both cars can be charged during SOP hours without me having to set the alarm for an ungodly hour to switch the one L2 between them.

You're very welcome, Mike, happy to share. Having spent countless hours four years ago trying to understand and predict SCE rates, I'm glad the earlier efforts paid off by giving us a quick way to estimate the impact of changing rates.

 

[smkettner]

Assuming all EV charging is done late night-early morning:
For my summer month on plan A, I got an estimated bill of negative $74.55 (in other words, a credit), and a total bill of negative $105.85 if we get the 10 cents per kWh baseline credit, which for me is $31.30 in summer.
For my summer month on plan T, I got an estimated bill of negative $16.28.

For my winter month on plan A, I got an estimated bill of $36.05, or a total bill of $9.83 if we get the 10 cents per kWh baseline credit, which for me would be $26.22 in winter.
For my winter month on plan T, I got an estimated bill of $73.18.

This is what I would have expected.

How does this compare to the current EV rate?
And thanks again for the details

 

[Boomer23]

Assuming all EV charging is done late night-early morning:
For my summer month on plan A, I got an estimated bill of negative $74.55 (in other words, a credit), and a total bill of negative $105.85 if we get the 10 cents per kWh baseline credit, which for me is $31.30 in summer.
For my summer month on plan T, I got an estimated bill of negative $16.28.

For my winter month on plan A, I got an estimated bill of $36.05, or a total bill of $9.83 if we get the 10 cents per kWh baseline credit, which for me would be $26.22 in winter.
For my winter month on plan T, I got an estimated bill of $73.18.

This is what I would have expected.

How does this compare to the current EV rate?
And thanks again for the details

I'll give you my actual bills for last August and November:
August: negative $105.68
November: $27.89

So pretty close to my actual summer and winter bills on the old rate plan.

 

[smkettner]

Thanks. Pretty much confirms this will be a general cost increase for Solar/EV customers.
I am a bit light on solar so I will hang onto the old rate as long as possible.

 

[Boomer23]

Prompted by a PM from another member, I did a little research on the meaning of "grandfathering" as it applies to SCE solar customers.

This is my layman's interpretation and by no means an authoritative interpretation.

Grandfathering in this context primarily means that those of us who are currently in Net Energy Metering agreements with SCE or who enter into such agreements by July 1 2017 will be able to benefit from full retail credit for the energy that we generate to offset costs for the energy that we pull from the grid. A recent decision by the CPUC makes this grandfathering effective for 20 years from the date the customer's NEM agreement went into effect.

Grandfathering does NOT mean that we get to keep the same rate plan that we previously had. Rate plans may change (as we are now seeing) and we would be affected by those changes. But because of grandfathering, we still get full retail credit for the energy that we generate. That will probably not be the case for new NEM customers who install solar after July 1 2017. Those folks might get reduced credit for their generated solar power.

Here are links to some background material that I read:

https://www.pge.com/regulation/DistributionGenerationV/Pleadings/SCE/2013/DistributionGenerationV_Plea_SCE_20131213_292868.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://cenergypower.com/blog/cpuc-officially-establishes-ab-327-nem-transition-period-20-years/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[tbleakne]

Assuming all EV charging is done late night-early morning:
For my summer month on plan A, I got an estimated bill of negative $74.55 (in other words, a credit), and a total bill of negative $105.85 if we get the 10 cents per kWh baseline credit, which for me is $31.30 in summer.
For my summer month on plan T, I got an estimated bill of negative $16.28.

For my winter month on plan A, I got an estimated bill of $36.05, or a total bill of $9.83 if we get the 10 cents per kWh baseline credit, which for me would be $26.22 in winter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Here are some details about our household usage and solar generation for your reference.

We have a 5.16 kW DC solar array (24 panels of 215 W each on a 20 degree south-facing roof) in coastal Orange County, producing about 8,450 kWh per year on the single meter TOU-D-TEV plan. We charge a LEAF for about 11,000 miles of annual driving. Our total actual household usage last year was 9,590 kWh.

This sounds very encouraging. Is 9,590 kWh your total annual grid usage including your car charging?

When I try to explain to folks that I have a negative annual balance in $ along with a positive annual balance in kWh, and that this means I drive my car with zero marginal fuel cost, I just get blank stares.

With a smaller solar system, 4.1kW, and substantial shade issues, together with much higher A/C usage, I am not at all sure I will stay in the negative camp with Plan A, but we will see.

 

[Boomer23]

Assuming all EV charging is done late night-early morning:
For my summer month on plan A, I got an estimated bill of negative $74.55 (in other words, a credit), and a total bill of negative $105.85 if we get the 10 cents per kWh baseline credit, which for me is $31.30 in summer.
For my summer month on plan T, I got an estimated bill of negative $16.28.

For my winter month on plan A, I got an estimated bill of $36.05, or a total bill of $9.83 if we get the 10 cents per kWh baseline credit, which for me would be $26.22 in winter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Here are some details about our household usage and solar generation for your reference.

We have a 5.16 kW DC solar array (24 panels of 215 W each on a 20 degree south-facing roof) in coastal Orange County, producing about 8,450 kWh per year on the single meter TOU-D-TEV plan. We charge a LEAF for about 11,000 miles of annual driving. Our total actual household usage last year was 9,590 kWh.

This sounds very encouraging. Is 9,590 kWh your total annual grid usage including your car charging?

When I try to explain to folks that I have a negative annual balance in $ along with a positive annual balance in kWh, and that this means I drive my car with zero marginal fuel cost, I just get blank stares.

With a smaller solar system, 4.1kW, and substantial shade issues, together with much higher A/C usage, I am not at all sure I will stay in the negative camp with Plan A, but we will see.

9,590 is my total household usage including car charging from all sources, grid and solar.

 

[pchilds]

Didn't the grandfathering also keep SCE from charging a network connection fee. Isn't the monthly $16 the same thing? Waiting for the SCE January mailing. :?

 

[Boomer23]

Didn't the grandfathering also keep SCE from charging a network connection fee. Isn't the monthly $16 the same thing? Waiting for the SCE January mailing. :?

Nothing in the text I read prohibits them from charging a connection fee.

 

[mwalsh]

I'm so massively confused by my bills, it's given me a headache. I just sat down to try and figure out where I would stand and I can't make head nor tail of it all. Compounding my frustration is that my bill still shows me as receiving a check for my annual surplus and I changed that to rollover after the first full year. That said, I have seen neither checks nor do I see where surpluses have been rolled into the following period on any of my billings for the last three years. Like I said...headache. :|

 

[smkettner]

I'm so massively confused by my bills, it's given me a headache. I just sat down to try and figure out where I would stand and I can't make head nor tail of it all. Compounding my frustration is that my bill still shows me as receiving a check for my annual surplus and I changed that to rollover after the first full year. That said, I have seen neither checks nor do I see where surpluses have been rolled into the following period on any of my billings for the last three years. Like I said...headache. :|

Do you produce more kWh than you use during the year? Need to have net negative usage to get a real check.

Or post a picture of your final bill for the year.

 

[mwalsh]

I'm so massively confused by my bills, it's given me a headache. I just sat down to try and figure out where I would stand and I can't make head nor tail of it all. Compounding my frustration is that my bill still shows me as receiving a check for my annual surplus and I changed that to rollover after the first full year. That said, I have seen neither checks nor do I see where surpluses have been rolled into the following period on any of my billings for the last three years. Like I said...headache. :|

Do you produce more kWh than you use during the year? Need to have net negative usage to get a real check.

Or post a picture of your final bill for the year.

I figured it out. You're right, I had a negative "cumulative kWh YTD" only for the first two years, but positive this year and 2013. So it looks like I get a big FU on the "cumulative energy charge" credit.

 

[smkettner]

So you rolled the small credit balance forward until you had net usage and since nothing was due by magic of TOU it was cancelled
That roll forward should only be used if you are on Schedule D.