Official Kia Soul EV thread

[NYLEAF]

I'm really pissed that Kia previously said NY would get the Soul this spring, and now is going back on their word and pushing NY back until 2016. What's the point of being a CARB-ZEV state if we can't get any compliance cars? My Leaf goes back in a month and this seriously messes up my plans for a new car this summer.

Anyone know if it's possible to lease a car in Georgia if you live in NY? Any guesses as to what it will cost to ship here from Atlanta?

 

[LeftieBiker]

If you got a one-year lease extension, then ended it early to lease a Soul, would that work?

 

[NYLEAF]

I'm paying $462/mo for the Leaf, so I'd be crazy to extend it. I signed a 39 month lease shortly before Nissan came to their senses and drastically lowered the lease payments on the 2012's. My parents are extending the lease on their Altima, which is up in May, and because sales tax is prepaid in NY, their lease payment is going to go up another $20 now that they're extending it. So, if I were to extend my Leaf lease, the payment would jump up to $502/mo!

My roommate takes the train to work every day, so I'm going to start driving his Rogue, which is leased until September. So, I need a new EV by September. I guess I'll try to ship a Soul in from Atlanta if they're not sold here by then.

 

[dhanson865]

I'm paying $462/mo for the Leaf, so I'd be crazy to extend it. I signed a 39 month lease shortly before Nissan came to their senses and drastically lowered the lease payments on the 2012's. My parents are extending the lease on their Altima, which is up in May, and because sales tax is prepaid in NY, their lease payment is going to go up another $20 now that they're extending it. So, if I were to extend my Leaf lease, the payment would jump up to $502/mo!

My roommate takes the train to work every day, so I'm going to start driving his Rogue, which is leased until September. So, I need a new EV by September. I guess I'll try to ship a Soul in from Atlanta if they're not sold here by then.

Buy a $10,000 used leaf and ship it up there?

Plenty of 2011/2012 around just make sure you get one with the cold weather features (heated seats/steering wheel/battery pack warmer that are only on late 2011s). Drive it as a holdover until Kia gets around to making the something better they have available nearby then sell it again to someone else that wants a cheap Leaf.

If it gets you out of a costly lease it might be cheaper in the long run if you can afford to tie up 10K for a year.

 

[eloder]

The only one I'm somewhat at a loss to understand is Texas, but it will certainly give them a hot weather trial.

EVs only degrade in hot weather without an active battery temp management system, so it's pretty much a problem unique to Leaf and I-MIEV. Most manufacturers don't skimp on such a hugely important battery longevity safeguard though. Teslas only see something like a 4-5% capacity degrade after 60k miles and 3 years, and Gen III smart EVs are only running at a 1-2% loss per year with a battery smaller than that of the Leaf.

 

[tractioninc]

Anyone know if it's possible to lease a car in Georgia if you live in NY? Any guesses as to what it will cost to ship here from Atlanta?

The local (Atlanta) dealers I've talked to say that Kia is waiting on the Georgia General Assembly to decide whether or not they will repeal our $5,000 state EV tax rebate (the driving force behind our EV leases and sales) before introducing the Soul EV in this market. I'll take their press release with a grain of salt until I actually see one in a dealer showroom.

 

[adric22]

Most manufacturers don't skimp on such a hugely important battery longevity safeguard though. Teslas only see something like a 4-5% capacity degrade after 60k miles and 3 years, and Gen III smart EVs are only running at a 1-2% loss per year with a battery smaller than that of the Leaf.

Also keep in mind Tesla's cells are only rated for a measly 500 cycles. The only reason they get away with this is because the battery packs are so large they don't get cycled as much for a daily drive. Most other battery packs are rated for 2,000 or more cycles.

 

[lorenfb]

The only one I'm somewhat at a loss to understand is Texas, but it will certainly give them a hot weather trial.

EVs only degrade in hot weather without an active battery temp management system, so it's pretty much a problem unique to Leaf and I-MIEV. Most manufacturers don't skimp on such a hugely important battery longevity safeguard though. Teslas only see something like a 4-5% capacity degrade after 60k miles and 3 years, and Gen III smart EVs are only running at a 1-2% loss per year with a battery smaller than that of the Leaf.

That's not totally true! There're other factors, e.g. battery cycling & age. Presently, the battery data from Teslas
are nowhere as extensive as from Leafs. Additionally, it's unknown how much battery capacity is "buried"
within the battery management system and not displayed or made available to the Tesla driver.

 

[eloder]

The only one I'm somewhat at a loss to understand is Texas, but it will certainly give them a hot weather trial.

EVs only degrade in hot weather without an active battery temp management system, so it's pretty much a problem unique to Leaf and I-MIEV. Most manufacturers don't skimp on such a hugely important battery longevity safeguard though. Teslas only see something like a 4-5% capacity degrade after 60k miles and 3 years, and Gen III smart EVs are only running at a 1-2% loss per year with a battery smaller than that of the Leaf.

That's not totally true! There're other factors, e.g. battery cycling & age. Presently, the battery data from Teslas
are nowhere as extensive as from Leafs. Additionally, it's unknown how much battery capacity is "buried"
within the battery management system and not displayed or made available to the Tesla driver.

Teslas have a lot more real-world experience than Leafs do. You don't see any Leafs with 150k+ miles on them, but there are Teslas out there with that mileage.

A one year later release date, but triple to quadruple the battery range and real fast-charging tech makes a huge difference in being able to pile miles onto a battery.

Also, as I mentioned, EVs with lessrange than Leafs (such as the smart ED) show substantially less battery degradation than a Leaf. Gen II smart electric drives have been driven by the public longer than Leafs.

Active TMS systems add thousands into the car cost, but it's worth it if you plan on having an EV longer than 1-3 years depending on your climate. It's sad that Nissan has EV early adopters thinking that EV batteries degrade as quickly as cell phone batteries with a pitiful battery warranty, while you have manufacturers like smart covering batteries for 10 years at a guaranteed 88% capacity and Tesla with a very impressive baseline warranty of their own.

 

[mtndrew1]

The Soul EV has a 10 year/100,000 mile battery capacity warranty to 70%, but its active TMS isn't very sophisticated.

I've got about 7,500 miles on my Soul now and I'm kind of surprised by how often I've heard the battery fan come on. It's definitely not a quick charge-only kind of thing, like the iMiEV. That said, it's just pulls cabin air through the pack and exhausts it outside the car. Still, better than a sealed metal box of batteries.

The car continues to perform very well aside from a rattle in a plastic trim piece and I remain thrilled with it. I'm glad to see Kia expanding to non-CARB states with it. It's a surprisingly good car.

 

[edatoakrun]

...Teslas only see something like a 4-5% capacity degrade after 60k miles and 3 years, and Gen III Smart EVs are only running at a 1-2% loss per year with a battery smaller than that of the Leaf.

...Also, as I mentioned, EVs with lessrange than Leafs (such as the smart ED) show substantially less battery degradation than a Leaf...

I you have documentation for those statements, why don't you post it on-topic:

Official smart fortwo electric drive thread

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=540&start=210" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Official Tesla Model S thread

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2429&start=3020" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[nosuchthing]

We're past 11,000 miles on our Soul+

I call the experience driving it "peaceful". Have the steering set to sport (i.e. tight) and hardly ever need to correct when driving in straight line. It's mesmerizing.

Combined range (miles covered+miles remaining) hovers around 93 to 101 per outside temp and speed (I drive 63 to 66). With optimal speed of 63 mph and optimal outside temp of over 65F the range, hills included, is 97 miles or higher. Leaves Leaf in the dust - for now.

 

[lorenfb]

Teslas have a lot more real-world experience than Leafs do. You don't see any Leafs with 150k+ miles on them, but there are Teslas out there with that mileage.

A one year later release date, but triple to quadruple the battery range and real fast-charging tech makes a huge difference in being able to pile miles onto a battery.

Also, as I mentioned, EVs with lessrange than Leafs (such as the smart ED) show substantially less battery degradation than a Leaf. Gen II smart electric drives have been driven by the public longer than Leafs.

Active TMS systems add thousands into the car cost, but it's worth it if you plan on having an EV longer than 1-3 years depending on your climate. It's sad that Nissan has EV early adopters thinking that EV batteries degrade as quickly as cell phone batteries with a pitiful battery warranty, while you have manufacturers like smart covering batteries for 10 years at a guaranteed 88% capacity and Tesla with a very impressive baseline warranty of their own.

You have yet to provide any real world Tesla data like that provided by the LeafDD or the LeafSpy as many
on this website have provided for the Leaf. Let us know if Tesla owners have access to battery management
data as do Leaf owners with the devices noted. Anecdotal data as you mention have little value.

Also, how much extra battery energy/capacity must the Tesla carry for TMS given the thermal capacity
of its battery? Based on that data, calculate for the Leaf, i.e. Nissan, what the required extra battery
capacity must be provided for a Leaf TMS system and its additional weight.

Again, please review the Leaf data which indicates that using TMS only reduces some of the battery
capacity loss, as is the case for any energy storage using a battery.

 

[Anonymous]

Gen III Smart EVs are only running at a 1-2% loss per year with a battery smaller than that of the Leaf.

I you have documentation for those statements, why don't you post it

Link:
http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f170/hv-battery-capacity-after-1-year-92226/#post1062778" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MB dealer test of Smart ED showing a potential 2.6% loss in one year of use.

Personally, I can't detect any loss in range in 1.5 years, and I drive my Smart ED very hard and charge to 100% daily.

 

[Valdemar]

Gen III Smart EVs are only running at a 1-2% loss per year with a battery smaller than that of the Leaf.

I you have documentation for those statements, why don't you post it

Link:
http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f170/hv-battery-capacity-after-1-year-92226/#post1062778" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MB dealer test of Smart ED showing a potential 2.6% loss in one year of use.

Personally, I can't detect any loss in range in 1.5 years, and I drive my Smart ED very hard and charge to 100% daily.

The loss in range is very gradual and as such hard to notice subjectively unless you are pushing the range limit daily.

 

[eloder]

The Soul EV has a 10 year/100,000 mile battery capacity warranty to 70%, but its active TMS isn't very sophisticated.

I've got about 7,500 miles on my Soul now and I'm kind of surprised by how often I've heard the battery fan come on. It's definitely not a quick charge-only kind of thing, like the iMiEV. That said, it's just pulls cabin air through the pack and exhausts it outside the car. Still, better than a sealed metal box of batteries.

The car continues to perform very well aside from a rattle in a plastic trim piece and I remain thrilled with it. I'm glad to see Kia expanding to non-CARB states with it. It's a surprisingly good car.

That's interesting to know. Thanks!

I'll be interested to know how that system stacks up compared to quality liquid TMS systems and poorer ones like the Leaf. Batteries should easily be lasting 10-15 years at 80%+ capacity--I don't think the average consumer will be terribly satisfied until batteries either last a long time, or are a low-cost replacement item.

 

[lorenfb]

Batteries should easily be lasting 10-15 years at 80%+ capacity--I don't think the average consumer will be terribly satisfied until batteries either last a long time, or are a low-cost replacement item.

Dream on!

 

[AndyH]

The Soul EV has a 10 year/100,000 mile battery capacity warranty to 70%, but its active TMS isn't very sophisticated.

I've got about 7,500 miles on my Soul now and I'm kind of surprised by how often I've heard the battery fan come on. It's definitely not a quick charge-only kind of thing, like the iMiEV. That said, it's just pulls cabin air through the pack and exhausts it outside the car. Still, better than a sealed metal box of batteries.

The car continues to perform very well aside from a rattle in a plastic trim piece and I remain thrilled with it. I'm glad to see Kia expanding to non-CARB states with it. It's a surprisingly good car.

That's interesting to know. Thanks!

I'll be interested to know how that system stacks up compared to quality liquid TMS systems and poorer ones like the Leaf. Batteries should easily be lasting 10-15 years at 80%+ capacity--I don't think the average consumer will be terribly satisfied until batteries either last a long time, or are a low-cost replacement item.

eloder - I agree - properly selected and properly managed lithium should maintain their capacity better than we saw in the early Leaf.

mtndrew1 - pushing cabin air through the battery box is a proven method. It's used on all the regular (non-plug-in) hybrids to keep their batteries happy (I believe it was used on many of the '90s era BEVs as well). While smaller, hybrid's NiMh batteries make a lot more heat when charging and discharging than lithium, and hybrid batteries work much harder than a BEV battery pack (they're smaller and sourcing/sinking much larger amounts of energy for their size). Since lithium prefers similar temperatures to their humans, that cabin air is pushed through the battery is a pretty efficient way to get the job done.

This has been a fun thread to read (aside from the trolling, I guess :lol: ) - it looks like Kia's been paying attention and intends to give Nissan a run for their money - cool!

 

[aarond12]

Now we just have to get the Kia dealerships on board.

http://insideevs.com/kia-dealer-lies-anti-sell-soul-ev-dealership-manager-writes-apology-letter/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[evnow]

That said, it's just pulls cabin air through the pack and exhausts it outside the car. Still, better than a sealed metal box of batteries.

Does the fan come on when parked in the hot sun outside (say in AZ) ?

How about when parked in a non-ac garage in AZ - and charging ?