Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

[walterbays]

AFAIA, no one disputes that a battery pack that doesn't need a TMS is the ultimate goal. The problem is that to date, no one has come up with a battery that has sufficient durability/longevity/temperature insensitivity to make going without a TMS in most of the U.S. a cost-effective solution.

+1

Everyone will do a happy dance once BEV battery packs no longer require a TMS, but we aren't there yet, as all too many of the early adopters here discovered. None of them, who were so badly burned by Nissan before, is willing to take Nissan's (or anyone else's FTM) word, but demand a viable warranty.

It's great that Nissan did more than any other company to move the industry towards EV's, and I still love my 2011 Leaf. But without an actual (pro rata) battery warranty I must assume that Nissan still lacks confidence in their batteries, and therefore so do I. If it were a choice between a 200 mile range Chevy and a 250 mile range Nissan for $5,000 less I would opt for the Chevy, no question. Because Chevy has proven they know how to build batteries and Nissan has proven they do not.

 

[NavyCuda]

In regards to fan boy sites, this place qualifies without question and has a proportionally higher number of holier than thou members than the equivalent sites for ICE vehicles. I imagine any other EV specific site would have the same issue.

I don't really like participating here due to the number of people who smell their own farts(south park reference).

 

[finman100]

Hmm, the Bolt has been out that long? I was unaware GM had that much of a lead over Nissan with regards to BEV miles. Yes, Bolt with a 'B'. Yes, I'm being sarcastic. No, the Volt doesn't count, it's a gas-backup hybrid (look for the tailpipe). And the EV1? Well they made a movie about that. The Spark? I live in a CARB state and have NEVER seen one.

Let's see where we are after a few summers of ACTUAL Bolt miles before declaring game over. Until then I can continue my Leaf experience. My actual wheels on the ground rolling on electrons only experience.

 

[LKK]

I have no doubt GM will deliver on the Bolt. I also no doubt that Nissan will build an EV that will fully compete and/or exceed the Bolt. That's competition, and we will all profit from it with better EVs. We should all relax, sit back and enjoy the change.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I have no doubt GM will deliver on the Bolt. I also no doubt that Nissan will build an EV that will fully compete and/or exceed the Bolt. That's competition, and we will all profit from it with better EVs. We should all relax, sit back and enjoy the change.

No one knows the specs of the LEAF yet. It could be a flop or be lacking something like cooling or have terrible styling . It's premature to say it can exceed the Bolt, not that that should be a challenge to do but Nissan does not impress me as being very big on dramatic change.

 

[NavyCuda]

Then you've got too much tunnel vision.

The Titan XD is a perfect example of Nissan taking risks and pushing their boundaries.

 

[golfcart]

No one knows the specs of the LEAF yet. It could be a flop or be lacking something like cooling or have terrible styling . It's premature to say it can exceed the Bolt, not that that should be a challenge to do but Nissan does not impress me as being very big on dramatic change.

Bolt specs being available now should let them know where they need to be if they want to be competitive. It would be foolish to release an obviously inferior product after the bolt comes out unless it is a fair amount cheaper. Like u said though, nobody knows for sure until they're both out and get some miles on them.

 

[kubel]

In regards to fan boy sites, this place qualifies without question

I think you'll find that there's a good number of us who look at Nissan rather critically, mostly due to our experiences with rapidly degrading batteries. When you realize your battery degrades at twice the rate that Nissan suggested it would, it kind of has a tendency to remove the fanboy factor. I look at Nissan as a brand that has a reputation for not being able to make a battery with sufficient longevity to make long-term ownership a viable option, and I think that position is held by a large number of us, if not the majority here.

 

[ElectricEddy]

I have no doubt GM will deliver on the Bolt. I also no doubt that Nissan will build an EV that will fully compete and/or exceed the Bolt. That's competition, and we will all profit from it with better EVs. We should all relax, sit back and enjoy the change.

7.2 kw o.b. charger ,60 kwh battery, active thermal conditioning, 200 hp, one pedal driving: sounds like ev tech has come a long way in 5 yrs. But I still have to be convinced when it actually comes available like: Availability of a spare tire and jack, can I get window visors or sunroof without third party, is the service manual available to download for $30, is there a service tech on site, does it have a heat pump, will the gauges indicate kwh remaining, quality audio system, construction and charging algorithm of the accessory battery, leather, can I get my 8' ladder in with my tools etc. It would take all these and more to convince me to go back to GM. ( last gm product: 3/4 ton gmc cargo van- spent over $15,000 in service in the 8 yrs I drove it).

 

[NavyCuda]

I can see those of you in hot climates having issues with battery depredation and feeling that thermal management is a must. I'm in a much more battery friendly environment, temp span of -10C to 30C with maybe a week a year that hits 42C.

The thing is that Nissan has slowly made improvements to the Leaf. They've manufactured the most EVs, for the longest period of time. They have the most experience with EVs. The Bolt will still technically be a generation 1 EV for GM. The Leaf 2 will be a second generation car with what, the 5th generation battery pack?

Yet some of you are trying to suggest GM is in the Lead?

Maybe I'm baised but I've worked on enough GM products, they had a hard time wiring an alternator that wasn't a joke to look at. The Japanese are the best at electrical systems, so the EV is a natural fit for them.

 

[Stoaty]

In regards to fan boy sites, this place qualifies without question

You obviously haven't been on this site very long to have that opinion. Go back and read the threads over the last 4 years to see the complaints and trashing of Nissan re: rapid battery capacity loss (and well deserved, I might add) by a majority of the members. I love most things about my Leaf, but count myself among those who would only buy another Nissan BEV if there is an excellent warranty covering battery capacity. The 30 kwh Leaf for 2016 doesn't pass that test.

 

[evnow]

I hope that Nissan pushes the Leaf 2 on everyday people and takes a step back from this environmental crap. I don't give a crap about the environment, I won't be shamed into caring.

People who don't give a cr*p about the earth we live on - and want to buy an EV - are a small niche. Marketing of any vehicle needs to be for the target audience - nobody has the money to market to every niche.

Afterall Chrysler won't market Pacifica to the odd single person who may want to buy the family hauler.

 

[Stoaty]

I don't give a crap about the environment, I won't be shamed into caring.

That tells me pretty much everything I need to know.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people like him. Even people who otherwise would care about the air they breathe, on the only livable planet we have, will let that care slide if they can save a little money. The real shift to EVs will come when they are priced better than ICE.

 

[garsh]

I hope that Nissan pushes the Leaf 2 on everyday people and takes a step back from this environmental crap.

People who don't give a cr*p about the earth we live on - and want to buy an EV - are a small niche.

And people who care enough about the environment to buy an EV are a slightly larger niche.

NavyCuda is right - companies that want EVs to succeed - like Tesla - are making vehicles that appeal to a broader audience. Everybody wants a Model S, mostly because it's one of the quickest cars available. Every other car company is making an EV to bring down their CAFE numbers. So they make EVs that look like econoboxes and squeeze the most economy out of them to offset their desirable cars. The only people who want those vehicles are people who know they want an EV.

 

[EVDRIVER]

If Nissan had a clue the LEAF would have had a more powerful motor, that would have really increased sales in some market segments. If they new car has good styling (doubt it) and a 0-6 of 6 seconds they will pick up lots of buyers that would not normally consider the car. My guess is they cut costs and deliver an average conservative car with average performance,

 

[Stanton]

Wow, you guys are being harsh--even for a long-time MNL member like me!
Nissan brought out a sub-$40k practical BEV back when the closest thing was a $125k 2-seater sports car and you're dogging the Leaf 2 before it's even out?

 

[mwalsh]

Everybody wants a Model S, mostly because it's one of the quickest cars available.

I disagree. Many still want it because it's the latest Pucci handbag (even the men!); or it's the latest breed of tiny dog suitable for carrying around in a Pucci handbag.

 

[NavyCuda]

The model S can attribute its success to appealing to people who like fast cars and/or luxury sport sedans. If it had the same motor as the Leaf it would be dead on arrival.

 

[garsh]

Everybody wants a Model S, mostly because it's one of the quickest cars available.

I disagree. Many still want it because it's the latest Pucci handbag (even the men!); or it's the latest breed of tiny dog suitable for carrying around in a Pucci handbag.

LOL. OK, regardless of the exact reason, the point is that it's the only EV that has people wanting it for a reason other than "I want an EV".

The model S can attribute its success to appealing to people who like fast cars and/or luxury sport sedans. If it had the same motor as the Leaf it would be dead on arrival.

I'd replace "would be dead on arrival" with "would have only appealed to tree-huggers and not be nearly as successful". But yes, exactly, Tesla made it appealing to the general public.