Nissan LEAF Update from Andy Palmer

[Nubo]

I've visited Vegas 2x in the summer and boy, is it hot. It gets to 105-109+ F in the day and can still be 90 F at night.

Last time I was there I walked out of a casino around 11pm and it was still 106F. Totally oppressive. I felt like I was on a NASA mission to Mercury, totally dependent on life support systems.

With all due respect to hot-zone folks and their battery issues, I just wonder how these areas became populous? I don't think I could bear to live in those conditions.

Sorry to be off topic but if any Phx folks can explain the attraction, I'd be interested.

 

[thankyouOB]

air conditioning
air conditioning
air conditioning

 

[Bicster]

I often wonder what the hell was wrong with the folks who decided to settle in Houston before the advent of A/C

 

[Volusiano]

I've visited Vegas 2x in the summer and boy, is it hot. It gets to 105-109+ F in the day and can still be 90 F at night.

Last time I was there I walked out of a casino around 11pm and it was still 106F. Totally oppressive. I felt like I was on a NASA mission to Mercury, totally dependent on life support systems.

With all due respect to hot-zone folks and their battery issues, I just wonder how these areas became populous? I don't think I could bear to live in those conditions.

Sorry to be off topic but if any Phx folks can explain the attraction, I'd be interested.

1. Cheaper housing -> biggest attraction.
2. Beautiful weather the other 6 months out of the year.
3. AC is your best friend in the summer.
4. Outdoors sports (tennis, soccer, etc) is still doable after sun down. You're going to sweat anyway... Actually, it's doable YEAR ROUND (compared to colder states).
5. Less crowded, less traffic (than LA at least).

 

[LEAFfan]

It's a dry heat.

 

[TonyWilliams]

air conditioning
air conditioning
air conditioning

And cheap, plentiful land.

 

[dhanson865]

I often wonder what the hell was wrong with the folks who decided to settle in Houston before the advent of A/C

Houston was settled well before the recent warming.

No matter why you think the warming has happened it wasn't as warm in the 1830s as it is now in the 2010s. (Houston was founded in 1836 and incorporated in 1837 according to Wikipedia).

The coldest period was between the 1830s and 1870s, after which a steadily increasing warming trend began. (from http://www.columbia.edu/cu/pr/96/18926.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

So maybe people moved there because it was too cold where they were coming from?

 

[Bicster]

As they say here, it's not the heat, it's the humidity. It does get warm, but I'm more comfortable in Phoenix.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Nissan is very much a process oriented company and likes to have everything set before providing specifics. It has been announced that battery pricing will be available when their battery plantbis up, the supply lines are filled and that is expected to be within 60 days or so. Guessing the prices will be surprising in a very good way

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Nissan is very much a process oriented company and likes to have everything set before providing specifics. It has been announced that battery pricing will be available when their battery plantbis up, the supply lines are filled and that is expected to be within 60 days or so. Guessing the prices will be surprising in a very good way

so what is your guess?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Cant really say but moving pro&uction of battery components is a huge cost break. Higher volumes is a cost break and more models using the packs, another cost break and yes there are more EVs from Nissan already in the pipe

 

[surfingslovak]

Guessing the prices will be surprising in a very good way

so what is your guess?

Take the stripper 2013 US LEAF and assume that at least 1/3 of its cost is the battery. If you add some modest markup and overhead, the pack would be around $10K. Of course, it might be more than that as well, and depending on some of the conditions of the transaction, such as returning the old battery for resale or remanufacturing, the final cost could be less than that.

Personally, I believe it's going to be somewhere between $5 and $15K, and I would peg it close to the middle of this range.

 

[edatoakrun]

Nissan is very much a process oriented company and likes to have everything set before providing specifics. It has been announced that battery pricing will be available when their battery plantbis up, the supply lines are filled and that is expected to be within 60 days or so. Guessing the prices will be surprising in a very good way

so what is your guess?

I think in the long run the more important question in determining the LEAF total cost of ownership may be, how much is a ~70% capacity used LEAF battery pack going to be worth on the secondary market?

This will be reflected in the net cost of the new battery less trade in for new or exchange for "reconditioned" value, whether this service is provided by Nissan or another party.

$50 per kWh or $150?

Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[thankyouOB]

Nissan is very much a process oriented company and likes to have everything set before providing specifics. It has been announced that battery pricing will be available when their battery plantbis up, the supply lines are filled and that is expected to be within 60 days or so. Guessing the prices will be surprising in a very good way

so what is your guess?

I think in the long run the more important question in determining the LEAF total cost of ownership may be, how much is a ~70% capacity used LEAF battery pack going to be worth on the secondary market?

This will be reflected in the net cost of the new battery less trade in for new or exchange for "reconditioned" value, whether this service is provided by Nissan or another party.

$50 per kWh or $150?

Your guess is as good as mine.

yes, this issue was covered in the questions EVCHELS put together for Nissan.
as you know, they have told us nothing about battery replacement costs, installation, refund or credit for old battery, as well as whether these costs will be standardized by Nissan or have trust-ur-dealer pricing.
it is wait and see, now.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Guessing the prices will be surprising in a very good way

so what is your guess?

Take the stripper 2013 US LEAF and assume that at least 1/3 of its cost is the battery. If you add some modest markup and overhead, the pack would be around $10K. Of course, it might be more than that as well, and depending on some of the conditions of the transaction, such as returning the old battery for resale or remanufacturing, the final cost could be less than that.

Personally, I believe it's going to be somewhere between $5 and $15K, and I would peg it close to the middle of this range.

it would be very difficult to make a guess right now other than that moving production of cars and battery packs to the area where the vehicle will be sold completely rewrites the bottom line. Even packs sold outright will be significantly cheaper.

now, keep in mind; If Nissan is smart, they will create a special program for current LEAF owners for an exchange. if swapping a used pack @ 70% capacity for a new one, the used pack will still have significant value so you would only be looking at a percentage of a new pack cost. granted, wont be a "% to %" discount and of course, there will be labor costs, etc but if the dealer markup is kept out of the picture this allows the buyer to see a clear path towards "future-proofing" his LEAF against any very large repair or replacement bills

 

[rmay635703]

The other issue with a used pack is that not all cells within a pack age at the same rate, you could literally have one 70% cell and the rest at 100% and the whole pack is stuck at 70%. (I have experienced this exact situation many times myself)

That is why I think the question of cost becomes complex because like Toyota you will probably be stuck in a trade to replace due to the high desire by nissan to refurb for warranty.

Like it or not I think that is where we will be stuck.

 

[ronwright38]

Is that why some 2013 Leafs are getting the EV error light?? :roll:

 

[surfingslovak]

Is that why some 2013 Leafs are getting the EV error light?? :roll:

Unlikely. The EV error light is commonly triggered when charging due to an incompatibility between the station and the vehicle. Nissan engineers and the EVSE manufacturer investigated a wave of similar problems at our office garage, and we were told not to worry as long as the EV light turns off after a car restart.

 

[ronwright38]

Why did the 2013 SL that had the EV Error light have to be in
Shop for 10 Day's to get the new charge module?? :roll:

 

[QueenBee]

Why did the 2013 SL that had the EV Error light have to be in
Shop for 10 Day's to get the new charge module?? :roll:

Because the "charge module" failed thus needed to be replaced and it took a bit for the parts to arrive??