New guy here with some basic charging questions

[Tuna55]

Hello folks. I am writing from the perspective who understands a lot of the technical aspects (I'm an engineer) but next to nothing with regard to the leaf in particular. I'm interested in leasing a 2013 Leaf, but only if it's super cheap, so we're talking S basic model.

I understand the S has the "slow" charger standard vs the others which feature a "fast" charger (as well as that same charger being an option for the S) but this confuses me somewhat. I can apparently charge either one with 240v in my garage. That's fine. How long does the "slow" charger take with 240v?

As far as the unit which is in the garage, I am perpetually confused. From my RC car/airplane/etc days, the charger was something with you plugged into the wall, and the other end into the vehicle. I understand the Leaf and other EVs utilize the charger within the car. That's a great idea. If that's the case, why isn't it just a 240v cord which plugs into the car? What is there to buy or install? What's out there for DIY options, and what doesn't suck?

Thanks for the help.

-brian

 

[Randy]

Welcome to the forum...

When charging at 240v, the lower-powered 3.7 kW from the wall and 3.3kW into the car way of charging will deliver about 12 miles of range per hour of charging. BTW, charging at 240v is called "Level 2".

When charging at "Level 1" or at 120v, you'll be adding 4-5 miles of range per hour of charging.

The device in your garage, whether portable or wall mounted, is called an "EVSE" or Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment. It has protection built-in, and uses the SAE J1772 connector on the car for both Level 1 and Level 2 charging.

There are many different types of EVSE that you can get. You can upgrade the 120v supplied Nissan cordset to 240v, you can purchase a Level 2 EVSE ranging from about $500 up to about $1500, depending on features. Or you can build one yourself through such projects as Open EVSE...

Lots of options....Does that help?

 

[Tuna55]

Thanks for the quick reply. It seems that L2 charging will be sufficient, even with the 'slow' charger on the S

Welcome to the forum...

There are many different types of EVSE that you can get. You can upgrade the 120v supplied Nissan cordset to 240v, you can purchase a Level 2 EVSE ranging from about $500 up to about $1500, depending on features. Or you can build one yourself through such projects as Open EVSE...

Lots of options....Does that help?

This is the confusing part.

Welcome to the forum...

You can upgrade the 120v supplied Nissan cordset to 240v

What does this mean?

I guess it has no bearing on what exists now, but why is anything required to be installed in the garage? It seems like Nissan could have put all of that circuitry into the Leaf and a cord would be the only thing required. What does the EVSE do? Are they all commercially available or some only to contractors?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Our 2012 has about the same charging rate as the base s model you are talking about and on 240 it goes from low battery warning to 100% in 5 hours.

 

[Pipcecil]

Ok here is some simple break down for you:

Level 1 (aka 120V, standard "outlet", supplied with car) - takes ~21 hours to fully charge the car. It gives ~4-5 miles per hour.

Level 2 (aka 240V, typical EVSE, purhcase separate) - IF you have the lower charger option on the car it takes ~7 hours to charge or ~12-15 miles per hour. The faster charger option is double this, ~4 hours to fully charge or ~25-30 miles per hour.

Level 2's can be purchased from many places (amazon, home depot, etc.) and are and by various companies (blink, aerovironment, bosh, etc.). There is a person on this forum who will take your supplied Level 1 EVSE and convert it to a Level 2 (but it will only charge at the slower speeds if I remember correctly) that plugs into a 240v outlet (sorry I don't remember the outlet type..L6-40 maybe?).

For installation, most EVSEs are hardwired directly to the breaker box but some plug into a 240 outlet (I don't know what the standard is for the EVSE my is hardwired). Installation cost if you get a package through Nissan is $1000-1500, an electrictian will probably do it for $300-500. You can DIY if you are comfortable adding breakers, wiring new sockets, and hardwiring to a breaker box. I am not, so I had an electrician do it.

 

[ksnogas2112]

This is the confusing part.

Welcome to the forum...

You can upgrade the 120v supplied Nissan cordset to 240v

What does this mean?

I guess it has no bearing on what exists now, but why is anything required to be installed in the garage? It seems like Nissan could have put all of that circuitry into the Leaf and a cord would be the only thing required. What does the EVSE do? Are they all commercially available or some only to contractors?

With the purchase of the vehicle you receive a portable EVSE capable of withstanding 120 volt sustained charging. Ingineer (Phil) has a business that will upgrade your portable EVSE from 120 to 240 capability which would provide L2 charging. (http://www.evseupgrade.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. This has been very popular and successful. I plan to get mine upgraded in the next few months so I can charge at RV parks using their higher voltage outlets.

Why something in the garage --- convenience. You can use the portable that comes with the car and you will be fine*

* fine - if the rate of charge meets your daily driving needs

I had a Schneider EVSE installed in my garage for my daily charging needs. It was an $850 device at the time. I think the current price is closer to $600. Check amazon, home depot, ebay etc for best pricing. There are other brands as well. I had my wife's coworker who is an electrician install it for $200. It is very convenient and having L2 capability in the house is very handy.

The EVSE is what takes the current from the source and provides it to the car for charging. 110/120 volt - L1, 220/240 - L2, 480 - L3 DCQC (not available in all areas).

I've put 14k miles on my car in the first year (MY 2012 so 3.3 kWh charger same as base line S model) using L2 for 99% of my charging needs. I only used the portable once on a campout but I plan on using it again in a couple weeks for another campout.

Hope this answers your questions.

BTW, you might want to take a few minutes and update your profile to include your general location. Sometimes location is very applicable to the questions and answers.

Welcome to the club.


<edit> addendum - with the EVSE upgrade you can plug into electrical dryer outlets w/appropriate adapter so if you want to run a line to the garage and put a dryer outlet then the upgrade would provide L2 power there (with appropriate circuit breakers etc).

 

[Tuna55]

Ok here is some simple break down for you:

Level 1 (aka 120V, standard "outlet", supplied with car) - takes ~21 hours to fully charge the car. It gives ~4-5 miles per hour.

Ahh, OK, so if I choose to use 120v, I don't need to buy anything, I literally just plug it into the wall.

OK, this is starting to gel. So the additional purchases are only required for any 240v charging. I am sure I will need it, it's just surprising that it isn't cheaper to do it, it seems that this will add a lot of cost to the overall Leaf vs gas vehicle equation.

 

[garsh]

OK, this is starting to gel. So the additional purchases are only required for any 240v charging.

Correct.

why isn't it just a 240v cord which plugs into the car?

Government-mandated safety. An EVSE is basically an expensive safety switch. When you plug an EVSE into the car, there's a communication that occurs where the two sides negotiate how much current it can deliver/receive. After that, the EVSE will switch on the power.

 

[Tuna55]

OK, this is starting to gel. So the additional purchases are only required for any 240v charging.

Correct.

why isn't it just a 240v cord which plugs into the car?

Government-mandated safety. An EVSE is basically an expensive safety switch. When you plug an EVSE into the car, there's a communication that occurs where the two sides negotiate how much current it can deliver/receive. After that, the EVSE will switch on the power.

OK, what's are the cheapest EVSE s for something that can plug into a 240v socket? Not concerned about anything fancy like networking or remote monitoring (no smart phone) - just plug it in.

 

[smkettner]

Lowest cost is the evseupgrade linked above. It works great BTW.

For wall mounted probably Clipper Creek or Bosch.

 

[Tuna55]

Lowest cost is the evseupgrade linked above. It works great BTW.

For wall mounted probably Clipper Creek or Bosch.

For a lease I'll have to give it back, so wall mounted is probably the only way to go. I have to see if I can get a tax break on anything as well.

 

[cgaydos]

OK, this is starting to gel. So the additional purchases are only required for any 240v charging. I am sure I will need it, it's just surprising that it isn't cheaper to do it, it seems that this will add a lot of cost to the overall Leaf vs gas vehicle equation.

True, you have to factor that in. Three things to consider:

1) If you install a 240V EVSE like the Schneider mentioned before (I also have one) you'll be able to continue using that long after your lease is up.

2) A home EVSE installation has an available federal tax credit up to 30% of the cost - but the tax credit is subject to AMT so your situation may vary.

3) If you go with the EVSEupgrade.com option, which many people recommend, your cost for the upgrade is under $300 - and much of that is recoverable when you turn in the car lease as you can sell it to another LEAF owner on eBay, etc. Of course, you'll need a 240V outlet in your garage to plug it in to - if you don't already have one you'll have the costs of putting one in.

Regarding surprise at the cost - yes, I think a lot of us can agree on that. But we've been seeing the prices drop a lot in the short time the LEAF has been available. When first announced people were told to expect over $2k for the home installation - and that was the price if you went through Nissan. Now you really don't need to pay even $1k and can do it for a lot less in most situations. The main issue is whether your home service panel can support the addition of the EVSE circuit - if not the service upgrade can be very expensive.

 

[TimLee]

why isn't it just a 240v cord which plugs into the car?

Government-mandated safety. An EVSE is basically an expensive safety switch. When you plug an EVSE into the car, there's a communication that occurs where the two sides negotiate how much current it can deliver/receive. After that, the EVSE will switch on the power.

The EVSE connector is also designed where the power conduction contacts engage, before the communication protocol contacts engage. This way there is no arcing that can occur as the power conduction contacts are already engaged.
Note that when using the 120V EVSE, it should be plugged into the wall outlet before plugging the EVSE into the vehicle. If you plug it into the vehicle first, you will generate an arc when you plug the 120V cord into the wall. Bad for both the cord and the wall outlet.

 

[Tuna55]

3) If you go with the EVSEupgrade.com option, which many people recommend, your cost for the upgrade is under $300 - and much of that is recoverable when you turn in the car lease as you can sell it to another LEAF owner on eBay, etc. Of course, you'll need a 240V outlet in your garage to plug it in to - if you don't already have one you'll have the costs of putting one in.

Whoa hang on - don't you need to bring the cord back to Nissan when you return the car? In that case, they would not take the modified unit, correct?

 

[TimLee]

3) If you go with the EVSEupgrade.com option, which many people recommend, your cost for the upgrade is under $300 - and much of that is recoverable when you turn in the car lease as you can sell it to another LEAF owner on eBay, etc. Of course, you'll need a 240V outlet in your garage to plug it in to - if you don't already have one you'll have the costs of putting one in.

Whoa hang on - don't you need to bring the cord back to Nissan when you return the car? In that case, they would not take the modified unit, correct?

Phil has a way to handle that. See his website.

 

[RegGuheert]

Whoa hang on - don't you need to bring the cord back to Nissan when you return the car? In that case, they would not take the modified unit, correct?

Some have returned the modified cord without a problem, but you can always swap it for a standard one, either through EVSEupgrade.com, as mentioned, or by selling to someone here with exchange.

 

[davewill]

... Whoa hang on - don't you need to bring the cord back to Nissan when you return the car? In that case, they would not take the modified unit, correct?

You find another owner who'd like an upgrade, and work out a swap. Then turn in the unmodified one you got in trade.

 

[Reddy]

Also, many owners continue to use the provided L1 EVSE (120V, 12 A, 1.44 KW) and have not added any additional stations or mods. This works if your daily drive is around 40 mi, maybe 50 mi in summer. I drive 8 mi RT and only charge about two hours each night. I keep the battery around 40-50% to help improve battery life. When I do drive farther, primarily weekends but sometimes concerts or other events during the week, I just override and charge a couple of extra hours. The only time I've had concerns is when I needed to drive more than 50 mi multiple days in a row. Then I needed to make sure I was up to 100% by the start of my first long day.

 

[planet4ever]

Whoa hang on - don't you need to bring the cord back to Nissan when you return the car? In that case, they would not take the modified unit, correct?

Some have returned the modified cord without a problem, but you can always swap it for a standard one, either through EVSEupgrade.com, as mentioned, or by selling to someone here with exchange.

A fourth option I probably could have used when I turned in my 2011 lease for a 2013 lease was to put the new EVSE in the old car when I was moving things from my old car to the new one. In fact I used a fifth option, which I don't recommend. Back in 2011 I foolishly thought I would need to have an EVSE in the garage and another one in the car, so I bought an additional one from EVSEupgrade. (They cost a lot less then, before Nissan jacked up the price.) So when I traded cars I left my virtually new (only used three times) original EVSE in the car. I continue to use the upgrade for all my charging, and expect it to give me many more years of service, quite likely on additional future cars.

I get no financial kickback for touting that device, but it really is amazing. You can charge three or four times as fast as the original 120v EVSE by plugging in to 240v at home, to a friend's dryer outlet, or to a "50 amp" outlet at any RV park, among other possibilities.

Ray

 

[cwerdna]

... Whoa hang on - don't you need to bring the cord back to Nissan when you return the car? In that case, they would not take the modified unit, correct?

You find another owner who'd like an upgrade, and work out a swap. Then turn in the unmodified one you got in trade.

Yep. The other owner will likely pay you since he/she would otherwise need to pay to get their stock EVSE upgraded.