My Town Ran Out of Gas... People Raiding Gas Stations related to Recent News About Pipeline Spill

[knightmb]

News Here:
https://weather.com/news/news/gas-pipeline-spill-alabama

Guess who has to drive all his friends and family around to get gas (this guy!) :mrgreen:

This town is one of those in which everyone is gone by 8PM, the town is basically empty after that. But these pictures below are what is all over town. It's well after 10pm and everyone is at the gas station because they are all running out. As usual, Price Gouging has already begun, and the pictures are the last remaining gas station with gas now. Just for reference, gas was $2.01 / gallon regular, changed on the fly today. :lol:

[Picture Update after 10:15pm]

 

[LeftieBiker]

Everyone with a Leaf for sale should be packing up to head South.

 

[user 10599]

Wow!!! Reading the article, it sounds like this is just the start. A whole bunch of areas will be impacted by this mess and will be having a real problem imminently if this isn't fixed pronto.

I'm surprised this isn't getting more major media attention. The below CNN article indicates they don't expect service to be restored until next week at the earliest.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/16/investing/gasoline-prices-shortage-pipeline-leak/index.html

Thanks for sharing and being a good EV ambassador to your friends and family. Perhaps we will get a few converts from this debacle.

 

[redLEAF]

Reminds me of the gas lines in the mid-'70's, maybe some of the older stations still have their 'No Gas Today' signs stashed somewhere so they don't need to make new ones --- not making fun as this could be a serious impact for pretty much all ICE drivers affected but this plays in to getting tried of hearing naysayers go on and on about the viability of EV's; looks like 'knightmb' will be busy for awhile!!

 

[TimLee]

... A whole bunch of areas will be impacted by this mess and will be having a real problem imminently if this isn't fixed pronto.
...

Pipeline runs from Houston to Greenville, SC.
Provides gasoline to large part of Sotheast.

Good to have a LEAF

 

[GRA]

Reminds me of the gas lines in the mid-'70's, maybe some of the older stations still have their 'No Gas Today' signs stashed somewhere so they don't need to make new ones --- not making fun as this could be a serious impact for pretty much all ICE drivers affected but this plays in to getting tried of hearing naysayers go on and on about the viability of EV's; looks like 'knightmb' will be busy for awhile!!

OTOH, those naysayers could/would only have to point to large scale power outages after natural or man-made disasters, which tend to be more frequent than major pipeline ruptures. How long did it take some areas to get power back after Katrina or Sandy? After a major storm in NorCal, more rural areas with low population may be out of luck for a week or more. If you've filled your tank with gas/diesel beforehand you're probably good for a week, and even if something occurs without warning, on average people will have a couple of day's worth of fuel, and can cut back and arrange carpools.

Still, the obvious choice for emergency preparedness is a PHEV; you need a double failure before you have to worry

 

[mrfredsporty]

im kind of lucky in a way. my leaf runs only on electric which is fine when there is no gas. my prius plug in runs on gas or electric in case there is an electric failure. i live in nashville and was surprised to see how many gas stations had huge lines. also, several seemed to be out completely
fred from nashville

 

[RegGuheert]

OTOH, those naysayers could/would only have to point to large scale power outages after natural or man-made disasters, which tend to be more frequent than major pipeline ruptures.

I have a bunch of ways to make electricity here, but no way to make gasoline.

How long did it take some areas to get power back after Katrina or Sandy?

And after those storms, the people with gasoline cars waited in line for gasoline at the few stations with power while those with BEVs often had a source of fuel at home. I'm pretty sure that was discussed here at the time.

Still, the obvious choice for emergency preparedness is a PHEV; you need a double failure before you have to worry

Even better: I have a BEV and a hybrid gasoline car with over 600 miles of range.

 

[dgerstein]

Just so happen to get my brand new 2016 Leaf yesterday, Leased it by the way. I Leased it from Nissan of Cool Springs in the Brentwood TN area which is just down the road from those service stations of the pictures posted in this thread. Today I charged up for the first time at The Blink Station in front of Kohls in Spring HiIl and everyone walking by me commented on my Leaf and its advantages in this time of gas shortage. Now all I have to figure out is how I can get this thing to charge faster in my own garage with this so called quick charge plug in that to a 110v outlet and I will be set.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Now all I have to figure out is how I can get this thing to charge faster in my own garage with this so called quick charge plug in that to a 110v outlet and I will be set.

Another sentence killed by voice to text? ;-) If you mean what I think, you can get the EVSE upgraded by EVSE Upgrade, put in a 20 amp 120 volt (or 240 volt!) outlet, and charge at higher amperage. 16 amps on 120 with a 20 amp circuit, and 20 amps at 240 volts, IIRC.

If you are looking for a way to charge through the QC port using 120 volts...don't.

 

[knightmb]

OTOH, those naysayers could/would only have to point to large scale power outages after natural or man-made disasters, which tend to be more frequent than major pipeline ruptures.

I have a bunch of ways to make electricity here, but no way to make gasoline.

Gas Pumps also run on electricity, so if the area is out of power, no one is going to refuel gas vehicles either. I have to agree, lots of ways to recharge an EV, but only one way to "recharge" a gas vehicle and it depends on large, for-profit companies.

This gas shortage seems silly though that there is so little redundancy in the gas pipeline that one break and the whole eastern US runs out? Seems to really be "JIT" (just in time) management of the resources. Might works well for the auto industry, not so well for the energy industry.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Gas Pumps also run on electricity, so if the area is out of power, no one is going to refuel gas vehicles either.

Not entirely true. There is a regional gas & food franchise (Stewart's) station near me with a backup generator that runs the pumps and registers. People go there when the power is out to get gas and propane for their own generators and cars. I doubt this is a unique thing.

 

[smkettner]

This gas shortage seems silly though that there is so little redundancy in the gas pipeline that one break and the whole eastern US runs out? Seems to really be "JIT" (just in time) management of the resources. Might works well for the auto industry, not so well for the energy industry.

Yea like it is easy to get a pipeline approved these days. NIMBY

Locally our electric substation will reach capacity within a year due to new development.... and there is a big fight to stop the needed expansion.
Gasoline pipeline? forgetaboutit

 

[cwerdna]

Reminds me of the gas lines in the mid-'70's, maybe some of the older stations still have their 'No Gas Today' signs stashed somewhere so they don't need to make new ones

I posted https://priuschat.com/threads/remembering-the-1973-oil-crisis.90757/ ages ago about the two oil crises in the 70s along w/a pointer to http://blog.sfgate.com/parenting/2011/03/02/remembering-the-1973-oil-crisis-bay-area-photos/.

 

[TimLee]

... Now all I have to figure out is how I can get this thing to charge faster in my own garage with this so called quick charge plug in that to a 110v outlet and I will be set.

The DCQC is not practical for use in a residence.
The devices are very expensive. Are some cheaper Chinese versions being offered but they are junk.
Plus it requires high voltage. Even some Nissan dealers that had three phase power ended up having to install step up transformers.
Plus most residential power panels do not have the amp rating needed.

Your wall oulet is 120V.
But you need to be careful using that.
The 120V EVSE that comes with the LEAF is intended for emergency or convenience occasional use.
Must be circuit with nothing else on it.
Outlet must be in good condition and properly wired.
There is some risk.
See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15784&hilit=fire&sid=4debcdeec268fe72bd5836ffa4b0532e#p352567 about potential risks.

 

[knightmb]

Gas Pumps also run on electricity, so if the area is out of power, no one is going to refuel gas vehicles either.

Not entirely true. There is a regional gas & food franchise (Stewart's) station near me with a backup generator that runs the pumps and registers. People go there when the power is out to get gas and propane for their own generators and cars. I doubt this is a unique thing.

All of the fancy gas pumps in my area have none of that, when the power goes, nothing works. Giant, 20 stall gas stations everywhere and no backup power to speak of. The smart gas station would have backup power for just such occasions, but it is probably just considered more of a 1st world problem I suppose.

 

[TimLee]

Very few gas stations in the northeast had backup generators and were dead in the water following Hurricane Sandy.

Motivated some states to pass legislation mandating that backup generators be installed.

 

[RegGuheert]

Very few gas stations in the northeast had backup generators and were dead in the water following Hurricane Sandy.

True.

Around here, the closest gas station was rebuilt into a bigger one several years ago. When the derecho hit in the evening of June 29, 2012, and left us without electricity for a day (some were out for a week), I drove to that station in my LEAF the next morning to purchase gasoline for our generator. I discovered that they had installed a generator during their upgrade and were open for business. Because they are one of only a few stations in the area to have a generator, they were very crowded during the outage. I suspect they paid for the expense of their generator during that single day of operations.

But what was interesting was that that gas station ran out of fuel by the afternoon of June 30. The point is that even when *some* gas stations have on-site electricity generators available, they are unlikely to have fuel for long in a power outage. This might change in the future if a much larger percentage of gasoline stations install generators.

Of course none of this has any bearing on the situation which is reported in the OP. In that case, the gasoline is what is in short supply, not the electricity. I suppose the fuel will be trucked into the affected area from long distance to address this issue (at great expense).

 

[GRA]

OTOH, those naysayers could/would only have to point to large scale power outages after natural or man-made disasters, which tend to be more frequent than major pipeline ruptures.

I have a bunch of ways to make electricity here, but no way to make gasoline.

Gas Pumps also run on electricity, so if the area is out of power, no one is going to refuel gas vehicles either. I have to agree, lots of ways to recharge an EV, but only one way to "recharge" a gas vehicle and it depends on large, for-profit companies.

This gas shortage seems silly though that there is so little redundancy in the gas pipeline that one break and the whole eastern US runs out? Seems to really be "JIT" (just in time) management of the resources. Might works well for the auto industry, not so well for the energy industry.

I was allowing for the fact that gas pumps run on electricity, when I pointed out that even without warning, on average most people will have half a tank of gas. That's enough for 2-3 days for most people even without conservation, which is long enough for generators and/or fuel to be trucked in from out of the area and distributed as needed (critical services first, obviously).

As to lots of ways to charge an EV, that's true for a small % of the population who have their own source of electricity, whether a genset or PV/wind etc. with battery storage. Unless regs are radically different in other parts of the country, when the grid goes down a grid-intertie-only system is also off-line, so as not to present any danger to utility workers.

 

[GRA]

Gas Pumps also run on electricity, so if the area is out of power, no one is going to refuel gas vehicles either.

Not entirely true. There is a regional gas & food franchise (Stewart's) station near me with a backup generator that runs the pumps and registers. People go there when the power is out to get gas and propane for their own generators and cars. I doubt this is a unique thing.

All of the fancy gas pumps in my area have none of that, when the power goes, nothing works. Giant, 20 stall gas stations everywhere and no backup power to speak of. The smart gas station would have backup power for just such occasions, but it is probably just considered more of a 1st world problem I suppose.

From a Nov. 2011 paper, "BACK UP POWER REQUIREMENTS FOR SERVICE STATIONS":

Florida and Louisiana appear to be the only states that require motor fuel facilities, including service stations, to be able to switch to an alternative energy source during a power outage.

Florida requires motor fuel (1) service stations near interstate highways or evacuation routes, (2) terminals and (3) wholesalers to have transfer switches and appropriate wiring to transfer the electrical load from a utility to an alternate generated power sources in the event of a power failure. It requires corporations or entities with at least 10 service stations in a county to have access to at least one portable generator.

Like Florida, Louisiana requires certain service stations to be wired with a transfer switch and capable of switching to an alternate generated power source in the event of a power outage. But Louisiana's law applies only to new or completely rebuilt service stations in the southern portion of the state.

California is considering a different approach to the problem. That state is considering a bill that would grant a tax credit of up to $2,500 to a service station that buys and installs an emergency standby generator. A Washington law that provided excise tax credits for alternative power generation devices for gas stations expired earlier this year.

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/rpt/2011-R-0389.htm

From Oct. 2013: http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2013/1028/A-superstorm-Sandy-legacy-Gas-pumps-that-work-when-power-is-out

A superstorm Sandy legacy: Gas pumps that work when power is out

New York will become the first state to store gasoline for use during emergencies, and it also now requires certain gas stations to have backup electricity. One year after superstorm Sandy, New Jersey, too, is moving to ensure that service stations are always powered up. . . .

New York also became the third state to require that gas stations maintain backup power. This summer, state lawmakers approved a bill requiring almost half the gas stations in New York City, on Long Island, and in other downstate communities to install emergency switches to wire up with nearby backup power generators. By next April, strategically located stations within a half-mile of highway exits or evacuation routes must be connected to a backup generator within 24 hours of a declared emergency. . . .

Similar bills in New Jersey, however, have stalled after opposition from business groups. Yet last week, Gov. Chris Christie (R) announced his own initiative, securing $7 million in federal grants for New Jersey service stations near the state’s evacuation routes, allowing them to voluntarily install backup power.

From Jan. 2015: http://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels-news-prices-analysis/fuels-technology-equipment/articles/nj-backup-power-program-goes

N.J. Backup Power Program Goes Statewide. . . .

Under the new guidelines, all gas stations statewide with a minimum gasoline capacity of 18,000 gallons are eligible to apply. Previously, the program was limited to those close to evacuation routes with minimum gasoline storage capacity of 30,000 gallons. . . .

To date, 62 stations have completed required environmental and design reviews and can now move forward with plans to install backup power solutions using grants provided through the RFS Program. Of the 62 approvals, 42 will install permanent generators, while 20 will rely on "quick-connect" devices, which provide connection points for mobile generators. Grants for the approved stations total more than $3 million. An additional 86 applications for $1.59 million are pending EDA review. Collectively, these approvals are anticipated to total $4.62 million, which leaves approximately $2.38 million in funding available for the next round of applications. . . .

See the discussion at http://ask.metafilter.com/228150/What-size-generator-does-it-take-to-run-a-gas-station

Which indicates that the lights, pumps and PoS system can be run with quite a small generator. It's the refrigerators and freezers in the convenience store that are the major load.