Making sense of battery stat numbers?

[DaveinOlyWA]

"44,598 miles on 2011 LEAF (retired) 2013 LEAF;14,388 miles. Ah; 64.24-66.39, Hx; 97.11-102.35% kwh 22.0 @70% estimate; 127,105 miles
Sep 2014 Drive Stats. Corolla;213 miles, $19.20, LEAF;2032 miles $44.78
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; "

So the 64-66 Ahr values should be easily corroborated by average ranges exceeding most 2013 Leafs'
range by 5-10%, i.e. the low to mid 90 miles for that additional Ahrs.

Can't do it now but every month on the 1st, I do a job that is 95.6 miles roundtrip and yes, it is done in the LEAF on a single charge. Because of Winter, rain, etc. my range is now roughly 85 miles and that will likely drop to 77-80 miles when the temps drop farther in Jan

 

[lorenfb]

"44,598 miles on 2011 LEAF (retired) 2013 LEAF;14,388 miles. Ah; 64.24-66.39, Hx; 97.11-102.35% kwh 22.0 @70% estimate; 127,105 miles
Sep 2014 Drive Stats. Corolla;213 miles, $19.20, LEAF;2032 miles $44.78
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; "

So the 64-66 Ahr values should be easily corroborated by average ranges exceeding most 2013 Leafs'
range by 5-10%, i.e. the low to mid 90 miles for that additional Ahrs.

Can't do it now but every month on the 1st, I do a job that is 95.6 miles roundtrip and yes, it is done in the LEAF on a single charge. Because of Winter, rain, etc. my range is now roughly 85 miles and that will likely drop to 77-80 miles when the temps drop farther in Jan

Actually instead of the using the EPA value for range of 88 miles, using a comparative real world range values
are more useful. Yesterday after a full charge my 13K mile 2013 Leaf had a capacity of 57 Ahrs. The Leaf
was driven 95 miles, both at freeway & city speeds, with 9 miles remaining of the GOM, 26 GIDS, SOC at
17, one bar remaining, LBW, and 10 Ahrs left. Given that my Leaf used 47 Ahrs for a range of 95, your Leaf
with 67 Ahrs should easily have a range of 115 miles assuming an ending capacity of 10 Ahrs.

Range (67 Ahrs battery) = ((67 start - 10 finish) / (57 my start - 10 finish)) X 95 miles (57 Ahrs my capacity)
Range (67 Ahrs battery) = 115 miles

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

"44,598 miles on 2011 LEAF (retired) 2013 LEAF;14,388 miles. Ah; 64.24-66.39, Hx; 97.11-102.35% kwh 22.0 @70% estimate; 127,105 miles
Sep 2014 Drive Stats. Corolla;213 miles, $19.20, LEAF;2032 miles $44.78
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; "

So the 64-66 Ahr values should be easily corroborated by average ranges exceeding most 2013 Leafs'
range by 5-10%, i.e. the low to mid 90 miles for that additional Ahrs.

Can't do it now but every month on the 1st, I do a job that is 95.6 miles roundtrip and yes, it is done in the LEAF on a single charge. Because of Winter, rain, etc. my range is now roughly 85 miles and that will likely drop to 77-80 miles when the temps drop farther in Jan

Actually instead of the using the EPA value for range of 88 miles, using a comparative real world range values
are more useful. Yesterday after a full charge my 13K mile 2013 Leaf had a capacity of 57 Ahrs. The Leaf
was driven 95 miles, both at freeway & city speeds, with 9 miles remaining of the GOM, 26 GIDS, SOC at
17, one bar remaining, LBW, and 10 Ahrs left. Given that my Leaf used 47 Ahrs for a range of 95, your Leaf
with 67 Ahrs should easily have a range of 115 miles assuming an ending capacity of 10 Ahrs.

Range (67 Ahrs battery) = ((67 start - 10 finish) / (57 my start - 10 finish)) X 95 miles (57 Ahrs my capacity)
Range (67 Ahrs battery) = 115 miles

umm.... no. does not work that way. ahr cannot do anything but tell you how much power you have available. it is associated with range but in concert with SEVERAL other variables

**edit**

case to consider. Yesterday, drove 88.6 miles, got home, GOM says 12 miles so range is 100 miles right?? wrong.

same trip 80 miles on charge, GOM says 14 miles. range is 94 miles? how can that be? same charge, same car, same starting ahr after a charge.

**edit** there is a point on my commute home where if I have at least 10 GIDs, I know I can make it home. This point is about 8 miles from my house. How can I make it 8 miles on 10 GIDs?

magic baby, magic!

 

[lorenfb]

".... no. does not work that way. ahr cannot do anything but tell you how much power you have available. it is associated with range but in concert with SEVERAL other variables"

Like what?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

".... no. does not work that way. ahr cannot do anything but tell you how much power you have available. it is associated with range but in concert with SEVERAL other variables"

Like what?

you cant be serious

 

[lorenfb]

".... no. does not work that way. ahr cannot do anything but tell you how much power you have available. it is associated with range but in concert with SEVERAL other variables"

Like what?

you cant be serious

Please be insightful to us all! Please start here:

Range is a direct function of; battery capacity = energy = Kwhrs = Volts X Amps X time

Since Volts ~ constant (390 volts to 360 volts) over SOC then,

Range is a direct function of Ahr capacity!

So, since your Leaf has a capacity of 67 Ahrs, why is it that you don't experience a greater
range than other Leaf owners with less than 60 Ahrs? Yes, driving methodology and terrain
are factors, but still with 10% more capacity you should easily be in the '100+ Club'.

 

[Nubo]

Please be insightful to us all! Please start here:

Range is a direct function of; battery capacity = energy = Kwhrs = Volts X Amps X time

Since Volts ~ constant (390 volts to 360 volts) over SOC then,

Range is a direct function of Ahr capacity!

So, since your Leaf has a capacity of 67 Ahrs, why is it that you don't experience a greater
range than other Leaf owners with less than 60 Ahrs? Yes, driving methodology and terrain
are factors, but still with 10% more capacity you should easily be in the '100+ Club'.

I believe they were referring to driving style, terrrain, temperature, weather, etc… I think you both agree actually, but are arguing from different perspectives.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

how far you can drive has more to do with when you drive, where you drive, how fast you drive and how you drive than what you are actually driving.

Sure I can go 115 miles on a charge and so has 50 some others. Just look at Tony's 100 mile thread. we even had someone go 150 miles so ya, it can be done if you drive slow enough, in good enough weather on flat enough terrain with good enough traffic conditions (notice I have not mentioned ahr?) and so on.

but you have been here long enough to know all that so you really need an explanation?

another thing I can do on 67 ahr is run it completely dead in less than 60 miles. drive fast enough and its actually pretty easy to do. I read somewhere that someone went to Turtle from a full charge in just 48 miles but had to average over 90 mph to do it.

 

[mkjayakumar]

The thing that puzzles is when you have 20 gids and the GOM says 8 miles remaining?. Given that Turtle is around 4 Gids, how can one drive 8 miles in 16 Gids ?

I know, I know that if I go at 22 mph on a flat road,no wind, blah blah anything can be done, but the GOM is based on the past driving style and it says I can go 8 miles on the remaining charge using the same driving style.

So it appears at the very low end of the charge below LBW/VLBW, the GOM from being overly conservative in the 2001 models, now it has gone to being overly optimistic in 2014 models ? Thats not good.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

In my case, a loss of about 300 ft in elevation helps a lot

 

[billg]

I have a 2015 "S" that I leased about 3 months ago here in Texas. The car evidently sat on the dealer lot for about 6 weeks before I took possession. Yesterday I acquired an OBD-II device (thanks, Gary) and downloaded LEAF Spy. It's apparent that, even with the Lizard battery (I do have that, right?) my battery has suffered some significant degradation. Or has it? I really don't understand the stats that well. Here are two screen shots taken this morning after a 100% charge.

Only 278 GIDs

Does anything else jump out at people that indicates a problem?

hard to say. looks like it could be readings from a car not fully charged every day and driven lightly.
I would fully charge it 5 days in a row then check your numbers

OK. Following Dave's suggestion, I charged to 100% for 8 days in a row and here are the resulting stats, each observed at startup with 100% charge:

Day - GIDs - SOH - Hx - AHr - Previous day miles

• 
  Sun - 278 - 95% - 91.3% - 59.25 -
  Mon - 278 - 95% - 91.2% - 59.22 - 20
  Tue - 279 - 95% - 91.6% - 59.41 - 30
  Wed - 280 - 96% - 91.9% - 59.64 - 45
  Thu - 281 - 96% - 92.4% - 59.92 - 60
  Fri - 280 - 96% - 92.2% - 59.78 - 20
  Sat - 280 - 95% - 91.7% - 59.51 - 30
  Sun - 278 - 95% - 91.4% - 59.28 - 50

The stats peaked on Thursday morning after a 60 mile day, but after a week they were right back where they started. I'm glad I leased, but this really demonstrates the value of checking the battery health before you sign a contract for a vehicle (which I didn't do).

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I have a 2015 "S" that I leased about 3 months ago here in Texas. The car evidently sat on the dealer lot for about 6 weeks before I took possession. Yesterday I acquired an OBD-II device (thanks, Gary) and downloaded LEAF Spy. It's apparent that, even with the Lizard battery (I do have that, right?) my battery has suffered some significant degradation. Or has it? I really don't understand the stats that well. Here are two screen shots taken this morning after a 100% charge.

Only 278 GIDs

Does anything else jump out at people that indicates a problem?

hard to say. looks like it could be readings from a car not fully charged every day and driven lightly.
I would fully charge it 5 days in a row then check your numbers

OK. Following Dave's suggestion, I charged to 100% for 8 days in a row and here are the resulting stats, each observed at startup with 100% charge:

Day - GIDs - SOH - Hx - AHr - Previous day miles

• 
  Sun - 278 - 95% - 91.3% - 59.25 -
  Mon - 278 - 95% - 91.2% - 59.22 - 20
  Tue - 279 - 95% - 91.6% - 59.41 - 30
  Wed - 280 - 96% - 91.9% - 59.64 - 45
  Thu - 281 - 96% - 92.4% - 59.92 - 60
  Fri - 280 - 96% - 92.2% - 59.78 - 20
  Sat - 280 - 95% - 91.7% - 59.51 - 30
  Sun - 278 - 95% - 91.4% - 59.28 - 50

The stats peaked on Thursday morning after a 60 mile day, but after a week they were right back where they started. I'm glad I leased, but this really demonstrates the value of checking the battery health before you sign a contract for a vehicle (which I didn't do).

I average 70+ miles per day so that might be a factor since your highest reading came on your longest drive. I think your next step is to continue to monitor it (daily if you can) and see where your long term trends are. With your hot weather, you should see significant change in where your numbers settle every Summer.

the new battery may simply have different stats. There is a difference in how the 2013 reads over the 2011. The bottom end of the "usable" battery on the 2013 appears to be much greater (never DOA in either car but Turtle seems MUCH more able to go farther in 2013 than 2011)

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/10/turtle-mode.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[lorenfb]

how far you can drive has more to do with when you drive, where you drive, how fast you drive and how you drive than what you are actually driving.

Sure I can go 115 miles on a charge and so has 50 some others. Just look at Tony's 100 mile thread. we even had someone go 150 miles so ya, it can be done if you drive slow enough, in good enough weather on flat enough terrain with good enough traffic conditions (notice I have not mentioned ahr?) and so on.

but you have been here long enough to know all that so you really need an explanation?

another thing I can do on 67 ahr is run it completely dead in less than 60 miles. drive fast enough and its actually pretty easy to do. I read somewhere that someone went to Turtle from a full charge in just 48 miles but had to average over 90 mph to do it.

Based on your 67 Ahr battery, maybe your battery is very similar to the 2015 battery recently tested here:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=18485" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;