Lease is up ... Leaf or Bolt ?

[DougWantsALeaf]

It seems that there is still only a trickle of Niros and Konas making it to the US.

 

[Oils4AsphaultOnly]

You're considering a bolt and dropped the i-pace. I don't understand how the e-tron is even in the running? I'm seeing a preference for hatchbacks (ergo no model 3), but why no i-pace?

As for the Kona EV, there's a few in the Portland Hyundai dealership, which is 150 miles from Bellevue, so it's well within the range of the car.

That's a four hour drive to look at a car, I'm north of Seattle, and the Portland Hyundai web page says there are two that are "coming soon".

I'll take another look at the i-pace. I don't like glass roofs. And the charging port is on the right fender, behind the front wheel, will be awkward in my garage.

What's your dislike of the e-tron?

It's kind of the polar opposite of the bolt. It's bigger, heavier, less efficient, costs more, and has less EPA range (204 miles) than the bolt. And those factors are all true against the i-pace as well. So it seemed inconsistent to me to mark off the i-pace, but still consider the e-tron.

As for the garage situation ... sorry, don't know the layout/issue so don't have a solution.

Or just lease another leaf until Mercedes EQC or Volvo Polestar 2 are ready. Both are 2020 model year cars, so they should be ready soon. Or even wait for the Model Y!

 

[GerryAZ]

WetEV,

I share your concerns about new EVs. The Bolt is too small for my needs (seats are improved for 2019, but luggage space is too small). The Model 3 has the speedometer incorporated into the center screen (which I find distracting), but luggage space is adequate. I took a test drive in an SL+ and liked everything except the instrument panel (prefer the old display, but can tolerate the new) and the console (in the way of moving my leg). Kia and Hyundai are not available here. The Jag is nice, but I have an SUV with true off-road capability for long trips. I will check to see if the Audi is available here, but have my doubts. I was hoping Ford was serious when I heard about the F150, but it is at least 2 years away (if it happens). I am also concerned whether the cars with active thermal management will discharge themselves significantly while parked for extended time in my hot climate since I cannot plug in at my office or the airport when I travel.

 

[WetEV]

WetEV,

I share your concerns about new EVs. The Bolt is too small for my needs (seats are improved for 2019, but luggage space is too small). The Model 3 has the speedometer incorporated into the center screen (which I find distracting), but luggage space is adequate. I took a test drive in an SL+ and liked everything except the instrument panel (prefer the old display, but can tolerate the new) and the console (in the way of moving my leg). Kia and Hyundai are not available here. The Jag is nice, but I have an SUV with true off-road capability for long trips. I will check to see if the Audi is available here, but have my doubts. I was hoping Ford was serious when I heard about the F150, but it is at least 2 years away (if it happens). I am also concerned whether the cars with active thermal management will discharge themselves significantly while parked for extended time in my hot climate since I cannot plug in at my office or the airport when I travel.

I also have concerns about active thermal management, mixing water and lithium can be exciting, but GM seems to do ok.

Others? No point in listing Tesla fires.

https://electrek.co/2019/07/27/hyundai-kona-ev-explodes-garage-blowing-door-off/

 

[LeftieBiker]

I also have concerns about active thermal management, mixing water and lithium can be exciting, but GM seems to do ok.

Small lithium pack builders have a safety net if they encounter thermal runaway in a Li-Po pack: they submerge it in cold water. Water and pure lithium equals explosive combustion, but water plus lithium battery packs, with the lithium as part of a compound, is a more complicated proposition.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

The Bolt is too small for my needs (seats are improved for 2019, but luggage space is too small). The Model 3 has the speedometer incorporated into the center screen (which I find distracting), but luggage space is adequate.

This comment doesn't seem to match reality. Google for "Bolt EV Cargo Volume" and I get 16.9 cubit feet. The same search for model 3 says 15 cubic feet.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The Bolt is too small for my needs (seats are improved for 2019, but luggage space is too small). The Model 3 has the speedometer incorporated into the center screen (which I find distracting), but luggage space is adequate.

This comment doesn't seem to match reality. Google for "Bolt EV Cargo Volume" and I get 16.9 cubit feet. The same search for model 3 says 15 cubic feet.

The Bolt is tall but short. It can carry large cube-shaped objects but they can't be long. This translates to less usable-for-most cargo space. I assume the Model 3 has a longer, shallower cargo area.

 

[SageBrush]

The Bolt is too small for my needs (seats are improved for 2019, but luggage space is too small). The Model 3 has the speedometer incorporated into the center screen (which I find distracting), but luggage space is adequate.

This comment doesn't seem to match reality. Google for "Bolt EV Cargo Volume" and I get 16.9 cubit feet. The same search for model 3 says 15 cubic feet.

The Bolt is tall but short. It can carry large cube-shaped objects but they can't be long. This translates to less usable-for-most cargo space. I assume the Model 3 has a longer, shallower cargo area.

-
Yep.

Also, unless the car is stuffed with people it seems reasonable to consider storage with the back seats folded. I consider 'sedans' to be a brain-dead idea but my Model 3 has surprised me. Its storage capacity is actually quite excellent

 

[LeftieBiker]

Sedans with folding seats and a large enough trunk pass-through can be surprisingly voluminous for cargo. When the second iteration of the Mustang came out, it could carry as much as a mid-sized Ford station wagon because of the large pass-through and high fastback.

 

[GerryAZ]

The Bolt is tall, but short and narrow which limits the ability to carry long and wide items. The Model 3 can handle long, wide items with the back seats folded as long as the items are not too tall. The LEAF beats the Model 3 if the items are tall. I was a bit surprised when I really looked at the storage capacity of the Model 3 with the back seats folded.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

When I care about cargo volume, it's one of two cases: either I'm hauling a large purchase home or I have the family packed up for a long trip.

If I am hauling something large, a hatchback will always win for convenience.

If the family is packed for a trip, I don't have any single large item, just lots of small items. The shape of the cargo area doesn't matter, just the volume. I can pack my Bolt's trunk up to the ceiling, flip the mirror into camera mode, and be on my way.

 

[inphoenix]

Time for Leaf # 2 to go back (after two extensions on the lease). The lease offers in AZ are not as attractive anymore so need to buy something. Thinking about a used 2019 Nissan Leaf plus (less than 5K miles on it) or a used 2017 Model X.

I know that a used 2019 would not be an easy find but seeking some help to see if there is one available in your area or if you have a ballpark idea on what it is going for in your area?

Also, are we expecting the same kind of battery degradation in the 2019 plus models?

 

[SageBrush]

Also, are we expecting the same kind of battery degradation in the 2019 plus models?

-
Yes

 

[GerryAZ]

Inphoeix,

I don't think you will find a used Plus anytime soon. Nissan is working with both SRP and APS on incentives if you live in their service areas (through end of September, I think) and want to buy new. You have a Model S so you know what you would be getting with an X. I am considering an SL+ because it should handle my moderate range needs for a long time even with significant battery capacity loss, it has 8-year, 100,000-mile battery warranty, and I could get one with light gray interior.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't think you will find a used Plus anytime soon.

There may be a few returned because of "rapidgate."

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Anyone with a plus on this board faced rapidgate yet? I haven’t, but I am in Chicago not Mesa.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Anyone with a plus on this board faced rapidgate yet? I haven’t, but I am in Chicago not Mesa.

IIRC we've gotten at least one complaint about reduced charging after the first QC in a day.

 

[cwerdna]

a used 2017 Model X.

Besides having no use for an SUV nor wanting spending big $ for one (including a premium for an X for an S), I would never ever want to buy a Model X for reliability reasons nor would I ever recommend someone get one, unless they had time for a new "hobby".

Every single year that there's been enough data in Consumer Reports, Model X has either been in the bottom 10 vehicles in terms of reliability or dead last.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/10-least-reliable-cars/
https://web.archive.org/web/20181101111025/https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/10-least-reliable-cars/

See https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18016&p=541134&hilit=reliability+dead+last#p541134 for pointers to previous years.

You've seen how bad the Model X Edmunds had for 20 months and under 25K miles was, right?
https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-x/2016/long-term-road-test/wrap-up.html - look under Maintenance & Repairs

I normally avoid vehicles with below average reliability but might be willing to take a chance if the automaker has a good reliability reputation, which Tesla doesn't have either (e.g. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/24/tesla-reliability-slips-to-third-worst-in-us-consumer-reports-says.html).

 

[SageBrush]

Every single year that there's been enough data in Consumer Reports, Model X has either been in the bottom 10 vehicles in terms of reliability or dead last.

This is where CR fails, because they do not weight the problems. A squeak, or having to open and close the falcon door twice to get it to close is a lot different than being stranded.

The Tesla Model X has high customer satisfaction, so you know that the problems are minor.

 

[cwerdna]

Every single year that there's been enough data in Consumer Reports, Model X has either been in the bottom 10 vehicles in terms of reliability or dead last.

This is where CR fails, because they do not weight the problems. A squeak, or having to open and close the falcon door twice to get it to close is a lot different than being stranded.

The Tesla Model X has high customer satisfaction, so you know that the problems are minor.

The Model X shouldn't be having the problems in the first place. It is an engineering disaster. LOL on your last point.

I posted this in another forum.
"Oh yeah, back to the co-worker w/the 3 in the shop, he mentioned to me all the vehicles at the service center were Model X (he wasn't so surprised as he'd read about plenty of problem Model X). He also described how he witnessed "cult of Elon" in action while there w/a Model X driver. Haha. "

"Let's put it this way: my co-worker and I were just puzzled that someone would so cheerfully (he seemed familiar w/the tech/staff already) go into service with a Model X (not an inexpensive vehicle), go over a whole laundry list of problems and automatically ask "a couple weeks?" And, the driver seems totally content w/that? From what my co-worker implied, this wasn't that person's first experience w/a vehicle being in service for a weeks at at time given his familiarity w/the service center staff.

He used the words "cult of Elon" and Stockholm syndrome to describe what he observed."

The above co-worker are one and the same and is a Model 3 owner.

Some of the problems w/the X are stranding like the bungee cord guy further down. Here are some Model X problems besides the repeated half-shaft replacements I pointed to earlier that I sent to someone else in email a few years ago:
-- begin --
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/crunch-falcon-wing-doors-fail-to-sense-obstacle.68268/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/post-initial-problems-with-the-model-x.59839/page-16
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/crunch-falcon-wing-doors-fail-to-sense-obstacle.68268/page-2#post-1484546
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/so-sad-the-x-is-going-back-to-service-center.66455/
(FWD = Falcon Wing Doors)
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/post-initial-problems-with-the-model-x.59839/page-14#post-1471614
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/preventing-doors-from-losing-calibration.68036/#post-1480798

This guy had a ton of door problems:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/falcon-wing-scratching-and-scuffing-other-parts.71339/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/falcon-wing-scratching-and-scuffing-other-parts.71339/page-2#post-1602045
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/falcon-wing-scratching-and-scuffing-other-parts.71339/page-2#post-1602160
- bungee cords holding door down
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/falcon-wing-scratching-and-scuffing-other-parts.71339/page-4#post-1629894
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/falcon-wing-scratching-and-scuffing-other-parts.71339/page-6#post-1733581
has a brief video. He says he's done.

A bunch of people have problems like this:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/driver-side-falcon-wing-door-hinge-snapping-when-opening.77686/
which screws up the trim:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/driver-side-falcon-wing-door-hinge-snapping-when-opening.77686/#post-1748642.
-- end --

The unnecessary door problems still continue to this day. Examples:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-fwds-in-garage-will-not-open-at-all.129838/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/intermittent-phantom-door-obstruction-drivers-side-door-and-fwd.157268/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/falcon-door-destroys-paint.93086/

And, if you have enough cars with problems like these, that's going to really hurt reliability ratings: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-build-quality.155213/#post-3786571.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-endless-problems-60-days-to-fix-latest.154528/