Leaf is dead after vacation...

[DesertDenizen]

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The battery in the Leaf when brand new is good for about 30ah until it's too low to power up the Leaf. (not that you ever want to draw it this low!) So that means without any intervention, you're looking at 1000 hours or 6 weeks. If your solar panel is working (I haven't measured this yet), then possibly forever. The Leaf is also suppose to top off the 12v occasionally, but it would be using traction pack energy for this, and I wouldn't want to go there.

However, If you leave a charge cable connected that isn't charging because of a timer, the Leaf seems to draw up to an additional ~10ma and wakes up periodically with the 300-900ma draw! Let's call it best case at 45ma total, that means your 12v is dead in less than a month. Now you never really want to deep cycle the 12v battery, so you want to definitely avoid even 50% discharges. So limit your vacations without taking action to 2 weeks.

Note: Leaving a charge cable connected with the charger in a hold state, such as "Stopping charge" on a Blink will leave the Leaf in a high-draw scenario, so your battery will be dead in under a week!

Again, My best advice is to charge to 50-80% and disconnect the 12v battery for those vacations that are over 2 weeks. If you absolutely must arrive to the car with a full charge, then creative use of the timers with a short charge daily up to 80%, then you can carwings it the rest of the way to 100% before you drive. Leaving the charger connected but not charging for over a few weeks will result in a dead Leaf and a severely abused 12v battery!

-Phil

Hey Everyone,

We have left both our Leafs for 6 WEEKS unattended, and when we came back, it was all fine. Before we left,

1. Charged it up to 80% and I drove it 3-4 miles for some errand runs.
2. Left both cars outside on the driveway (Sunroof to keep the accessory battery up and allow cell coverage)

After 3-4 weeks or thereof, I recall that I was no longer able to login to both our cars via the Nissan Owners portal. They seem to have stopped communicating to Nissan servers or whatever. When we arrived home 6 weeks after, both the cars had lost 1 bar (or 2 maybe) but they both powered up fine and we used them right away.

@DaveOly: Your suggestion which suggests logging into the periodically might not work. As I indicted, at some point in the 6 weeks, the communications was deactivated.

@coqui and others: For business travels, I use Avis (local edition) to pick up a car and return at airport (i.e 1 day rental). Avis seems to be the only rental agency that allows "local edition" pickup and return at another location WITHOUT any extra charges or "Fees". Similarly, upon return, I pickup an Avis car from the airport, and drop it off at the Avis local edition (again, 1 day rental charge). I book it all online so that I can see the full charges before committing. And, I usually rent a Full size car for the luggage space needed for our bags. YMMV.

Thanks for posting the MXP, that makes me feel MUCH better.

 

[UkrainianKozak]

On top of that I don't think I'm alone in hating the way Nissan did remote/timer pre-heating/cooling...
Most of the time I use it, the car ends up severely humidified and fogged up... (maybe it's just me in Seattle...)
So I wonder if you will do that many times during the vacation without actually driving/defogging you may end up with moldy dump interior after you get back from vacation...

Probably not. What causes the window fogging is the moisture already in the car. None is added.

Hm... Then I have some magic happening in my car...
On fresh Seattle mornings if I do pre-heating, the heater does kick in, and HEATS UP the car, but it fogs up like hell... so I need to defog it for a good 3-4 minutes before I can safely drive. If I follow your logic, if you heat the air, relative humidity should be going down, not up, so if you won't add the water, humidity should go down and the car should not be fogging up, but the facts are... it is! And I'm not the only one experiencing it...
Maybe some physicist can explain it in pure scientific terms, to me it seems that leaf is evaporating some already condensed water from somewhere when the heater is on, and then the moisture is getting deposited on all cold surfaces of the car that is colder then the air coming from the heater...

And I feel like if you do this moisturizing/heating every day, that would be an ideal environment to grow mold and other nasty stuff in your garage...

 

[SanDust]

Warm air holds more moisture. As the warm air hits your cold windshield you're getting condensation.

 

[davewill]

Warm air holds more moisture. As the warm air hits your cold windshield you're getting condensation.

Exactly. Moisture that is in the upholstery and carpet re-evaporates into the air as it's heated. You can help the condensation problem by opening the windows or doors and letting that initial load of warm, moist air out of the car to be replaced by dry, cold air before driving off. Since the heater system is already warm, the car should heat back up quickly.

Of course, if it's raining, the preheat cycle may indeed be pulling in moisture from outside.

 

[ebill3]

Warm air holds more moisture. As the warm air hits your cold windshield you're getting condensation.

Yep. The moisture is in your seats, the carpet, etc. IF we could use fresh air instead of recirculate with the preheat mode, the problem would not be as great.

Some folks in the NW have had success in eliminating the fogging by opening the windows and heating the car several times in order to drive out the moisture.

Bill

 

[Nubo]

Could also be some moisture being re-added from AC evaporator coils and surrounding ducting having been left damp at the end of the previous drive.

Here's a tip that avoids "smelly AC syndrome", but might also reduce the LEAF pre-heat fogging:

Make sure to turn off the AC a good five minutes or so before you reach your destination, and leave the fan blowing. This allows the evaporator coils to dry up and gives accumulated water a chance to work its way out the drain. Avoids the promotion of mildew on the coils.

 

[Reddy]

I think you're onto something Nubo. During certain times of the year I'm guessing that the average Seattle driver might use A/C in the afternoon and then pre-heat in the morning. If the A/C condensed water collects inside the CC system, it could be revaporized in the morning when the auto-CC (77F) changes to heat.

So all you Seattle-ites should try Nubo's suggestion, turn off the A/C (but leave the fan running) about 5 min before shutting off the car. Then tell us what, if any, difference you see.

I'd try it here on the dry side, but first could you tell me what humidity is? :lol:

Reddy

 

[UkrainianKozak]

I'm not using AC at all and usually arrive with windows open...
I think the absolute humidity is greater in the evening, and it is warmer, so in the morning you may have a condensate anywhere, so when heater turns up in the morning, it causes that excess moisture to evaporate and deposited again on cold surfaces.

I think you're onto something Nubo. During certain times of the year I'm guessing that the average Seattle driver might use A/C in the afternoon and then pre-heat in the morning. If the A/C condensed water collects inside the CC system, it could be revaporized in the morning when the auto-CC (77F) changes to heat.

So all you Seattle-ites should try Nubo's suggestion, turn off the A/C (but leave the fan running) about 5 min before shutting off the car. Then tell us what, if any, difference you see.

I'd try it here on the dry side, but first could you tell me what humidity is? :lol:

Reddy

 

[Leafboy]

Could also be some moisture being re-added from AC evaporator coils and surrounding ducting having been left damp at the end of the previous drive.

Here's a tip that avoids "smelly AC syndrome", but might also reduce the LEAF pre-heat fogging:

Make sure to turn off the AC a good five minutes or so before you reach your destination, and leave the fan blowing. This allows the evaporator coils to dry up and gives accumulated water a chance to work its way out the drain. Avoids the promotion of mildew on the coils.

I have been doing this for years. I have an 8 year old car that still smells new inside.

 

[dickbrass]

I hope someone is still following this old thread.

My leaf died in just this manner after being plugged in for the past week while we were away.

Thanks to all you kind folks, I knew exactly what to do and not do to revive the vehicle and prevent another fainting spell. We jumped it, it came right back up and, as I write this, I have the Leaf on but otherwise powered down, so it can charge the 12v.

But there is one thing no one discussed: what should you do after you wake it up with a jump?

Should you let it run with everything else off (lights, climate, etc.) as I am doing? So that the dc-dc converter moves juice from the lithium pack to the 12v to charge it? If you do this, how long should you let the car “run” to recharge the 12v?

Or is it enough to jump it, and then immediately turn it off? If you jump it, and turn it off within a few minutes, will it restart? Equally important, will it continue to charge if you jump it, start it and quickly turn it off? If it will continue to charge turned off, for how long? Until the 12v is fully charged? Or for a specific time period?

It would seem one thing is clear: after jumping, don’t plug it in unless the main battery is well depleted. Because by bug or design, the Leaf will not reliably charge the 12v if the car is plugged in, which is of course the cause of this problem.

But is it better to jump it and turn it off? Or jump and turn it on without driving? Or, for some reason, jump and actually drive, as you might a gas car with a belt-driven alternator?

My plan is to leave it on in the garage for several hours -- or until someone notices this old thread and responds with advice.

Many thanks.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

as soon as the LEAF powers up, the traction battery is connected to the car and part of its job is to top off the 12 volt battery. jump it and drive or if just charging the 12 volt battery, jump it and let it "run" for 10 minutes (which is a waste...)

 

[gasmiser1]

I'd suggest investing in an automatic "trickle charger" for the 12vt battery. Hook it up when the LEAF is stored for several weeks in the garage.

I used to own 2 Kawasaki Jet Skis. When stored for the winter and spring, I used a couple trickle chargers. I never had any battery issues and the batteries lasted 3 times longer.

 

[RegGuheert]

Should you let it run with everything else off (lights, climate, etc.) as I am doing? So that the dc-dc converter moves juice from the lithium pack to the 12v to charge it? If you do this, how long should you let the car “run” to recharge the 12v?

I would do precisely as you are doing: Keep the car unplugged but "On" for several hours while the 12V battery charges. The LEAF charges that battery at 13.0V. If you have a voltmeter you might want to monitor that and once it gets up to 13.0V make sure it continues to charge for about 10 hours at that voltage. That should get you a pretty full charge. Also ensure that the traction battery does not go below 3 bars. If it does, you can plug in and turn the car to accessories to finish charging the 12V battery.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Should you let it run with everything else off (lights, climate, etc.) as I am doing? So that the dc-dc converter moves juice from the lithium pack to the 12v to charge it? If you do this, how long should you let the car “run” to recharge the 12v?

I would do precisely as you are doing: Keep the car unplugged but "On" for several hours while the 12V battery charges. The LEAF charges that battery at 13.0V. If you have a voltmeter you might want to monitor that and once it gets up to 13.0V make sure it continues to charge for about 10 hours at that voltage. That should get you a pretty full charge. Also ensure that the traction battery does not go below 3 bars. If it does, you can plug in and turn the car to accessories to finish charging the 12V battery.

you're kidding right?

 

[TonyWilliams]

There's a lot of well intentioned guessing as to when the 12 volt is charged up. The only way to know is to actually measure the voltage (assuming no other battery issues). Just saying 10 minutes or 10 hours is just a wild guess.

1. If the car is plugged in, and turned off, it won't charge the 12 volt battery

2. If the car is plugged in, and turnd on, it also shouldn't charge the 12 volt battery (you should see a red battery symbol in the upper left side of the driver's dash display). If there's no red battery symbol, when powered up, then it should be charging the 12 volt.

3. When unplugged, sure, just turn the car on, observe no red battery symbol, and it's charging the 12 volt. Obviously, if the traction battery is really low, charge that first.

4. How long to charge the 12 volt is strictly contingent on how dead it is !!! Ten minutes isn't likely to properly charge a fully drained 12 volt. Measure the resting voltage, and make sure the cells are flooded (might have to remove the caps... Use only distiller water to properly fill). Proper resting voltage (not charging) should be about 12.7 volts.

5. The car (when not plugged in) will charge the 12 volt at 55 minutes after shutdown, and again in 5 days. The dash series of three blue lights will continuously light the one on the left side of the car to indicate that the 12 volt battery is being serviced by the traction battery via the DC-DC converter.

6. Running the climate control to "top off" the traction battery sounds like a really odd idea. But, Reg claims that if you want to charge your traction battery AND you 12V battery while plugged in, use the remote app to turn on climate control. This will both engage the EVSE AND charge the 12V battery.

7. If the cells are balanced, and the car is charged to 100%, that's all you're going to get for a maximum charge of the traction battery. The best plan, in my opinion, is to leave the car plugged in for up to four hours PAST the time the car hits 100% charge to allow the Battery Management System to balance the cells, THEN make a small charge to top it off. The easiest answer, of course, is to just measure something close to 281 Gids with a new-ish battery, or whatever is normal for your degraded battery.

 

[RegGuheert]

Should you let it run with everything else off (lights, climate, etc.) as I am doing? So that the dc-dc converter moves juice from the lithium pack to the 12v to charge it? If you do this, how long should you let the car “run” to recharge the 12v?

I would do precisely as you are doing: Keep the car unplugged but "On" for several hours while the 12V battery charges. The LEAF charges that battery at 13.0V. If you have a voltmeter you might want to monitor that and once it gets up to 13.0V make sure it continues to charge for about 10 hours at that voltage. That should get you a pretty full charge. Also ensure that the traction battery does not go below 3 bars. If it does, you can plug in and turn the car to accessories to finish charging the 12V battery.

you're kidding right?

Not at all. That is probably the safest and easiest way to charge the 12V battery.

But I did some testing and found that I made some misstatements:

The LEAF charges that battery at 13.0V.

That should probably say the LEAF *usually* charges the battery at 13.0V. Apparently, it *sometimes* charges it at 14.4V like any other car. It seems to do this when it first starts, but it goes down to 13.0V when I turn off climate control. (Strangely, though, turning climate control back on does NOT cause the voltage to return to 14.4V.)

Also ensure that the traction battery does not go below 3 bars. If it does, you can plug in and turn the car to accessories to finish charging the 12V battery.

I tested this and it does NOT work. The 12V battery does NOT charge when the car is in accessories mode, even when plugged in. Instead, if you want to charge your traction battery AND your 12V battery while plugged in, use the remote app to turn on climate control. (Make sure your heater is not on, but A/C should be fine for Level 2 charging.). This will both engage the EVSE AND charge the 12V battery.

 

[TonyWilliams]

If you want to charge your traction battery AND you 12V battery while plugged in, use the remote app to turn on climate control. (Make sure your heater is not on, but A/C should be fine for Level 2 charging.). This will both engage the EVSE AND charge the 12V battery.

Interesting quirk that I would not have thought to check. One side note; it won't matter if the heater is on or off. The car will automatically heat or cool the car to 25C / 77F degrees.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

input charge voltage to lead acid is usually 14.4 volts. a "12 volt" battery that reads 12 volts is nearly dead. lead acid cells run about 2.2-2.3 volts per cell or a minimum of 13.2 volts. keep in mind; this battery does not turn an engine over so charging it for "hours" is a waste of energy. i would charge it no more than 15-20 minutes assuming you are back from your trip and will resume daily driving.

 

[smkettner]

If you will be driving it then fine.... otherwise I recommend a small 12v charger such as Battery Minder Plus to charge the small 12v.

 

[RegGuheert]

Interesting quirk that I would not have thought to check.

This could be particularly useful if you are away from the car such as when you are traveling and the car is at home or at an airport connected to an EVSE.

One side note; it won't matter if the heater is on or off. The car will automatically heat or cool the car to 25C / 77F degrees.

Is that how it works? I didn't know that! Then that could be a problem if you did this with a low traction battery in 10F weather!