Leaf is dead after vacation...

[LEAFfan]

If you do accidentally discharge the 12v battery (Leaf will appear totally dead), you can jump start just like a normal car, but be ABSOLUTELY SURE the polarity is correct, and make the negative connection on the Leaf to the body or DC-DC junction box (you can see where the black ground wire connects on top). NEVER connect anything to the Leaf's negative 12v battery terminal, EVER!
-Phil

Phil,
What is it about not to connect to the negative terminal of the batter during jump-starting?
I was always doing that with ICE, and I did it with my Leaf... What is the reasoning behind it? is it that something might happen or I already did something bad to my car?

Well, lets see what Phil says, but I was always taught to make the negative connection AWAY from the Pb battery because hydrogen gas might be present and the connection spark could ignite it.
Bill

Bingo! On all of my ICE cars, I always connected the neg jumper cable to the engine block on both cars during the 'jumping'.

 

[Spindoctor]

NEVER charge to 100% and leave the Leaf sitting for more than a day. If you accidentally do, then drive the car until 2-3 bars are gone, or leave the defrost on high with all the windows down for an hour or so, which should have the same result.
-Phil

What is the danger/effect if this happens? (has happened a few times when I thought I needed the car and then didn't use it for 1-2 days)

 

[TEG]

NEVER charge to 100% and leave the Leaf sitting for more than a day. If you accidentally do, then drive the car until 2-3 bars are gone, or leave the defrost on high with all the windows down for an hour or so, which should have the same result.
-Phil

What is the danger/effect if this happens? (has happened a few times when I thought I needed the car and then didn't use it for 1-2 days)

From what I understand the chemistry in the battery cells starts to break down when left at high SOC for extended periods of time. Particularly so if the battery gets hot too. So it reduces the expected lifespan of the battery. Worst case scenario would be leaving the LEAF on 100% charge in a very hot place all the time. (LEAF owners in the desert should watch this closely.)

 

[Ingineer]

NEVER charge to 100% and leave the Leaf sitting for more than a day. If you accidentally do, then drive the car until 2-3 bars are gone, or leave the defrost on high with all the windows down for an hour or so, which should have the same result.
-Phil

What is the danger/effect if this happens? (has happened a few times when I thought I needed the car and then didn't use it for 1-2 days)

TEG is correct. (Above) This is why Nissan created the 80% charge timer setting. Your best bet is to always charge to 80%, then if you know you'll need the last 15%, (really that's all you lose) you can plug in again and top it off. (provided you have the time)

I usually know within a few hours if I'll need to make a long trip, so this works well for me. YMMV!

If you occasionally charge to 100% and don't use it for a day or 2, it's not so bad. It's cumulative, so you don't want to make a habit of it. If you think there's a good chance you'll need it, charge! It's also a function of time, so if you charge to 100% (95%) and use it right away it doesn't accumulate hardly any penalty.

If you've had your annual battery check-up and it was all good, you are doing it right.

-Phil

 

[GeekEV]

If you've had your annual battery check-up and it was all good, you are doing it right.

FWIW, I'm taking the just plug it in, drive it and don't sweat it approach. I don't set a timer, I don't worry about when to plug it in and when not to. Though I do tend to skip plugging in unless I'm down 2+ bars. I also tend to drive the car every day at least a little. And, drumroll please, my annual battery report came back A-OK. So...

We'll see in a few more years if all this drama is worth it. :lol:

 

[lpickup]

There is a constant small drain on the battery when the car is off (think Carwings, cell data, receivers waiting for key fob, etc.) The battery is small, so even a small load can deplete it over time.

Sorry, but this is a bunch of crap (not the statement, which apparently is true since it's been reported several times!)

Seriously my little tiny Li-ion battery on the cell phone can keep my phone powered up for almost ONE week (I don't yet have a smartphone) and that's including a few calls each day!

Did Nissan seriously cheap out on the 12V batteries in these LEAFs? Is the standby draw while plugged in that Phil mentioned THAT large that it can drain an automotive battery in 2 weeks? Just doesn't sound right. Or maybe the few people that have reported the issue got a bad battery and the rest of us are safe...my neighbor with a LEAF recently got back from a 2 week trip. I'll ask him how his LEAF did. I doubt he had it plugged in though (he charges at work, not at home).

Oh, and BTW I did an 80%-100% charge yesterday (didn't need to go out until the evening, but needed 100% charge, so I charged to 80% overnight like I normally do and deferred the top-off until an hour before I needed the 100%). It took 76 minutes (and consumed 4.27kWh from the wall). Of course unlike the rest of you guys, mine doesn't appear to taper off until the last 15 minutes:

Session        Type             Serial Number    Volts   kWh   Peak  Date/Time
EVSE-1515504	End Of Charge    SET01461100015	249.3	0.04	Y	4/18/2012 3:31:56 PM
EVSE-1515504	Charging         SET01461100015	248.3	0.53	Y	4/18/2012 3:30:00 PM
EVSE-1515504	Charging         SET01461100015	248.7	0.94	Y	4/18/2012 3:15:01 PM
EVSE-1515504	Charging         SET01461100015	248.9	0.94	Y	4/18/2012 3:00:00 PM
EVSE-1515504	Charging         SET01461100015	247.1	0.94	Y	4/18/2012 2:45:00 PM
EVSE-1515504	Charging         SET01461100015	247.1	0.88	Y	4/18/2012 2:30:00 PM
EVSE-1515504	Charge Started	SET01461100015	248.8	0.00	Y	4/18/2012 2:15:56 PM

 

[DaveEV]

Sorry, but this is a bunch of crap (not the statement, which apparently is true since it's been reported several times!)

If you don't like it - complain to Nissan about it.

Seriously my little tiny Li-ion battery on the cell phone can keep my phone powered up for almost ONE week (I don't yet have a smartphone) and that's including a few calls each day!

The tiny battery in my watch can keep it powered for years - but I don't see how that's relevant to the discussion.

Did Nissan seriously cheap out on the 12V batteries in these LEAFs? Is the standby draw while plugged in that Phil mentioned THAT large that it can drain an automotive battery in 2 weeks? Just doesn't sound right.

The 12V lead-acid battery in the LEAF might hold 500 Wh at most. Pretty easy to see that if you leave even a 40W drain on it for 2 weeks without topping it off it will go empty (numbers here are hypothetical and very rough ballpark - have no idea what the capacity of the 12V battery is or what the standby drain is). It's also quite possible that the 12V battery was never fully charged properly on delivery - this can affect usable capacity of the 12V battery as well.

Oh, and BTW I did an 80%-100% charge yesterday (didn't need to go out until the evening, but needed 100% charge, so I charged to 80% overnight like I normally do and deferred the top-off until an hour before I needed the 100%). It took 76 minutes (and consumed 4.27kWh from the wall). Of course unlike the rest of you guys, mine doesn't appear to taper off until the last 15 minutes:

You're about 0.3-0.6 kWh short of what I've seen it take from the wall to charge from 80-100% according to my Blink when I've topped off to 100%. Might want to start a new thread for this topic.[/quote]

 

[KJD]

Nissan could have made the 12 volt battery Lithium, but do you really want to add 1200 dollars to the list price of an already expensive car ?

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=12+volt+lithium+ion+battery&hl=en&prmd=imvns&biw=1172&bih=726&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=4608319354304096319&sa=X&ei=uyOQT6T_Luq1iwKf_eSFAw&ved=0CJYBEPMCMAA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Nissan could have made the 12 volt battery Lithium, but do you really want to add 1200 dollars to the list price of an already expensive car ?

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=12+volt+lithium+ion+battery&hl=en&prmd=imvns&biw=1172&bih=726&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=4608319354304096319&sa=X&ei=uyOQT6T_Luq1iwKf_eSFAw&ved=0CJYBEPMCMAA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

just $500 if you want one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XS-Power-Ba...es&vxp=mtr&hash=item564960f49b#ht_1416wt_1166

 

[smkettner]

NOTE: Leaving a charge cord plugged into the Leaf, but not charging, will leave the ECU's awake and cause more than normal load on the 12v battery. DON'T DO THIS IF AT ALL POSSIBLE!

If the Leaf is actually charging from the wall, then it will also charge the 12v battery.

Here are my recommendations if leaving the Leaf for 2 weeks or less:
Leave the charge at 50-80%. Do not leave anything connected to the charge port.

If you are leaving for longer, and the Leaf's Solar panel will not have direct sunlight, charge to 80% and then disconnect the negative lead on the 12v battery or add a "Battery tender" type trickle charger. (But DO NOT connect it to the negative terminal of the 12v battery directly!) If you are parked where the solar panel (if you have one) will get some sun, then there is no need to disconnect the 12v battery. Either way, the Leaf should be good for a year.

-Phil

I left mine sit for a week plugged in and it was fine. Difference is I left the timer at 12a to 6a to charge to 80% on L1. Was not charged to 80% until the second night. Third night it still began charging for at least a few minutes. The final night it was set to go 100% and charged as expected.

My thought is by having the timer on virtually continuous the Leaf never cycled on to charge the 12v battery. I am thinking a 30 minute charge to 80% every day or once a week might be better than a continuous 80%.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

There is a constant small drain on the battery when the car is off (think Carwings, cell data, receivers waiting for key fob, etc.) The battery is small, so even a small load can deplete it over time.

Sorry, but this is a bunch of crap (not the statement, which apparently is true since it's been reported several times!)

Seriously my little tiny Li-ion battery on the cell phone can keep my phone powered up for almost ONE week (I don't yet have a smartphone) and that's including a few calls each day!

is it?? you might want to look at power needs of your "dumb" phone verses a smart phone. you might find the power demands increase quite a bit with the capabilities of the device.

turn on Wi Fi and Bluetooth. these are two radios constantly scanning for a signal. this should give you an idea of the differences between your cell phone and the Leaf

it has already been WIDELY and EXTENSIVELY DISCUSSED here that plugging your car in while on an extended vacation is a mistake.

now, if we could stop charging via car wings we would be ok. run it down to 20% SOC. plug it in, go on vacation.

then simply pull phone out, launch Carwings and Charge the car for 15 minutes a day. this will get you to about 80% after two weeks and BOTH batteries will be fine

 

[palmermd]

it has already been WIDELY and EXTENSIVELY DISCUSSED here that plugging your car in while on an extended vacation is a mistake.

now, if we could stop charging via car wings we would be ok. run it down to 20% SOC. plug it in, go on vacation.

then simply pull phone out, launch Carwings and Charge the car for 15 minutes a day. this will get you to about 80% after two weeks and BOTH batteries will be fine

why not just set a timer to charge to 80% from noon to 12:15pm and have it automated. Or just leave it unplugged. I've done it more than once for 3 weeks and everything is just fine when I return.

 

[Nubo]

...
Did Nissan seriously cheap out on the 12V batteries in these LEAFs? Is the standby draw while plugged in that Phil mentioned THAT large that it can drain an automotive battery in 2 weeks?...

Yes, it doesn't take as much draw as you might think to do so. Almost any car of recent vintage will have what is referred to as "dark current" -- 12v power that is used for alarm systems, maintaining memories, etc... Even a current of 50 milliamps (which is not unheard of) will draw down a 12V battery in a short number of weeks (50ma * 12V *24H) = 14.4 watt-hours per day. Not sure what the LEAF's is, but its conceivable that they could have designed in an even bigger draw, knowing that resources for topping off the battery autonomously would be available.

The problem, it seems to me, is that Nissan's DC-DC charging algorithm doesn't handle a long-term plugged-in scenario. Obviously there is plenty of power available, it's just not being used to keep the 12V topped off and apparently the 5 minutes every 5 days algorithm gets foiled by a charge timer. As for the unplugged scenario, I'm sure the engineers wanted to avoid any possibility of the main battery being excessively drawn down from charging the 12V, but there sure seems a whole lot of middle ground between granting a few watt-hours per day towards 12V, and the Kilowatt-hours available.

 

[SanDust]

The 12v battery can go dead in certain circumstances, so it's best to disconnect it or add a trickle charger if you are leaving for a long time.

We have plugged in and not charging as one circumstance. Any others? Seems like you should be able to charge the 12v from the pack. Do you know how many amps you'd need to start? You don't have to crank the engine so I'd think it would be fairly minimal.

 

[TomT]

Why? Everything works perfectly if you just leave the car unplugged. This is true for up to at least three months or so.
There is no need to make this more complicated than it need be. Just charge it to 50 to 80 percent before you leave and be done with it.

why not just set a timer to charge to 80% from noon to 12:15pm and have it automated. Or just leave it unplugged. I've done it more than once for 3 weeks and everything is just fine when I return.

 

[palmermd]

Why? Everything works perfectly if you just leave the car unplugged. This is true for up to at least three months or so.
There is no need to make this more complicated than it need be. Just charge it to 50 to 80 percent before you leave and be done with it.

why not just set a timer to charge to 80% from noon to 12:15pm and have it automated. Or just leave it unplugged. I've done it more than once for 3 weeks and everything is just fine when I return.

Did you even read my post before responding? You just quoted what I said in the post. "just leave it unplugged. I've done it more than once for 3 weeks and everything is just fine when I return" In my first sentence I was only responding to Dave's suggestion that Nissan modifies carwings to allow a stop charge command. I simply stated if he wanted to do it that way he could already do it with the automated timers.

 

[TomT]

I'm sure Nissan will get to that just as soon as they are done ignoring the dozens of other suggestions they have been given... :lol:

In my first sentence I was only responding to Dave's suggestion that Nissan modifies carwings to allow a stop charge command.

 

[UkrainianKozak]

Karvings, shmarwings, how about just fix the damn car firmware to not allow to drain the 12V battery when the power cord is attached or just top it off like usual... It's just crazy... If I leave ICE car at the pump for 2 weeks, it'll not drain the battery...
Why should I connect to the car to not let the battery drain while I'm on vacation?

I'm sure Nissan will get to that just as soon as they are done ignoring the dozens of other suggestions they have been given... :lol:

In my first sentence I was only responding to Dave's suggestion that Nissan modifies carwings to allow a stop charge command.

 

[thankyouOB]

why not just set a timer to charge to 80% from noon to 12:15pm and have it automated. Or just leave it unplugged. I've done it more than once for 3 weeks and everything is just fine when I return.

Done it?
which one:
auto charge for 15
or
leave it unplugged

(not being cute; just trying to find out what worked for you)

 

[palmermd]

why not just set a timer to charge to 80% from noon to 12:15pm and have it automated. Or just leave it unplugged. I've done it more than once for 3 weeks and everything is just fine when I return.

Done it?
which one:
auto charge for 15
or
leave it unplugged

(not being cute; just trying to find out what worked for you)

Leave it unplugged. Its the simple and known solution. Fussing with timers is a pain.