LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

[GetOffYourGas]

My Kia Rio I replaced with it's small gas tank would get around 300 miles per tank(320-ish was I think my max).
I don't see Gen 2 there, but gen 3 probably...

For Japan 400 km they can get in NEDC cycle is considered "ICE range".

We should look at that as 200 miles or less EPA range.

But do ICEVs get 400km on the NEDC cycle? Or do they get 600km? You can't mix-and-match test cycles like that. It's comparing apples to oranges.

I don't know of any ICEV that gets under 300 miles EPA. I don't see that happening in a BEV under $75k this decade.

 

[evnow]

But do ICEVs get 400km on the NEDC cycle? Or do they get 600km? You can't mix-and-match test cycles like that. It's comparing apples to oranges.

I don't know of any ICEV that gets under 300 miles EPA. I don't see that happening in a BEV under $75k this decade.

That is not the point.

What kind of range do Japanese expect in cars ? Do they drive 600 km at a stretch or 400 ?

I think this talk of "taking range issue off the table" or "like ICE range" is a hyperbole. It is the new "100 miles".

 

[dhanson865]

I don't know of any ICEV that gets under 300 miles EPA.

I wondered what the least range I could find in a new vehicle was. I didn't grab every vehicle but I did search through the low MPG ones and skipped a lot of duplicates.

There must be some rounding up there or a reserve gallons not used for the EPA range not to match the highway mpg x gallons in tank but:

240 miles EPA range 2015 Dodge Viper SRT 21 mpg hwy x 16 gallon tank (21x16 = 336)
252 miles EPA range 2015 Cadillac CTS 18 mpg hwy x 18 gallon tank (18x18 = 324)
266 miles EPA range 2015 Chevrolet Camaro 18 mpg hwy x 19 gallon tank (18x19 = 342)
286 miles EPA range 2015 Lamborghini Aventador Roadster 16 mpg hwy x 23.8 gallon tank (16x23.8 = 380.8)
313 miles EPA range 2015 smart fortwo (either one) 38 mpg hwy x 8.7 gallon tank (38x8.7 = 330.6)
313 miles EPA range 2015 Chevrolet Spark 39 mpg hwy x 9.2 gallon tank (39x9.2 = 358.8)
318 miles EPA range 2015 Ferrari 458 17 mpg hwy x 22.7 gallon tank (17x22.7 = 385.9)

there might be something with a gas engine and shorter range that I didn't find but I think it's pretty clear there are cars you won't drive more than 250 miles without looking for a gas station.

I don't see a big need to beat the bottom end of the gas car ranges.

 

[dhanson865]

I don't see that happening in a BEV under $75k this decade.

I think you underestimate what Tesla will do with the model 3. I expect 250 miles epa range from them under $40,000 in about 3 years. I wouldn't put it past them to beat 300 miles EPA under $70,000 by 2019.

 

[ydnas7]

I don't know of any ICEV that gets under 300 miles EPA.

My fav is the 2008 dodge Viper
16 Gal tank
13mpg city, 22mpg hwy

so, if driven like a gandma in the city, it gets 16 x 13 = 208miles to empty.
if driven like its made to be driven in the city, it'll get 0.66 x 208 = 137 miles to empty.
on hwy its much better, keeping to the speed limit of course.

these are the earlier EPA figures, like the ones that rate the Tesla at a 2-cycle range of 320 miles and a 5-cycle range of 265 miles.

 

[edatoakrun]

Shareholder meeting referenced in the DK article is available here:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/64546138" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Main Leaf discussion begins at ~39 minutes, and video illustrating that Nissan "foresees the day" when future LEAF range improvement will allow BEV range comparable to ICEVs, starts at ~41:20.

FWIW, what appears to me to be an otherwise ~standard 2015 LEAF, is shown at 100% charge and GOM 544 km (~338 miles) at the beginning, and following a drive through the country, still shows eight charge bars and GOM 257 km (~160 miles) as the LEAF drives on into the sunset...

 

[dhanson865]

Shareholder meeting referenced in the DK article is available here:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/64546138" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Main Leaf discussion begins at ~39 minutes, and video illustrating that Nissan "foresees the day" when future LEAF range improvement will allow BEV range comparable to ICEVs, starts at ~41:20.

FWIW, what appears to me to be an otherwise ~standard 2015 LEAF, is shown at 100% charge and GOM 544 km (~338 miles) at the beginning, and following a drive through the country, still shows eight charge bars and GOM 257 km (~160 miles) as the LEAF drives on into the sunset...

I love how seeing Ghosn from the right angle makes me think "what is Mr. Bean doing there?"

I await their announcements later this year regarding increased range of the Leaf.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I don't see that happening in a BEV under $75k this decade.

I think you underestimate what Tesla will do with the model 3. I expect 250 miles epa range from them under $40,000 in about 3 years. I wouldn't put it past them to beat 300 miles EPA under $70,000 by 2019.

Maybe. I expect 200 miles EPA from the Model III for under $40,000. I also expect that there will be a longer-range option which will push the price over $40,000 but give you 250 miles.

Today you cannot buy a 300 mile (EPA) Tesla for any price. I think when they do break that threshold, it will be in the S/X first. The Model III is focused on lowering price, not on increasing range. I still think that in this decade, you will not be able to buy a 300 mile BEV for under $75k.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I don't know of any ICEV that gets under 300 miles EPA.

I wondered what the least range I could find in a new vehicle was. I didn't grab every vehicle but I did search through the low MPG ones and skipped a lot of duplicates.

There must be some rounding up there or a reserve gallons not used for the EPA range not to match the highway mpg x gallons in tank but:

240 miles EPA range 2015 Dodge Viper SRT 21 mpg hwy x 16 gallon tank (21x16 = 336)
252 miles EPA range 2015 Cadillac CTS 18 mpg hwy x 18 gallon tank (18x18 = 324)
266 miles EPA range 2015 Chevrolet Camaro 18 mpg hwy x 19 gallon tank (18x19 = 342)
286 miles EPA range 2015 Lamborghini Aventador Roadster 16 mpg hwy x 23.8 gallon tank (16x23.8 = 380.8)
313 miles EPA range 2015 smart fortwo (either one) 38 mpg hwy x 8.7 gallon tank (38x8.7 = 330.6)
313 miles EPA range 2015 Chevrolet Spark 39 mpg hwy x 9.2 gallon tank (39x9.2 = 358.8)
318 miles EPA range 2015 Ferrari 458 17 mpg hwy x 22.7 gallon tank (17x22.7 = 385.9)

there might be something with a gas engine and shorter range that I didn't find but I think it's pretty clear there are cars you won't drive more than 250 miles without looking for a gas station.

I don't see a big need to beat the bottom end of the gas car ranges.

Ok, so there are a handful. I notice that most of them are high performance cars, and hence have terrible gas mileage. I don't know how valid it is to compare the Leaf's range to those, since noone will ever cross-shop them.

But do ICEVs get 400km on the NEDC cycle? Or do they get 600km? You can't mix-and-match test cycles like that. It's comparing apples to oranges.

I don't know of any ICEV that gets under 300 miles EPA. I don't see that happening in a BEV under $75k this decade.

That is not the point.

What kind of range do Japanese expect in cars ? Do they drive 600 km at a stretch or 400 ?

I think this talk of "taking range issue off the table" or "like ICE range" is a hyperbole. It is the new "100 miles".

But that is the point. He said that it will have the same range as ICEVs. So which ICEVs and on which test cycle? It sounds like he is comparing city MPG to city driving a BEV. This is the worst-case for the ICEV and best case for the BEV.

FWIW, this talk about going about your day and coming home with ample charge is moot to me. I already do that in my 2012 Leaf. I so rarely drive more than 25 miles in a weekday that range isn't an issue in that use case. What I cannot do is take the Leaf on the various road trips I make multiple times per month. I can get on the highway and drive 300 miles on a single tank in my ICEV. Can I do that in a Leaf II? No. A Leaf III? Still, probably not.

I feel like there is a cultural difference here. How many Japanese residents drive 300 miles on the weekend? I suspect far fewer than Americans. And he did give this presentation in Japan after all...

 

[jhm614]

I saw a new Maxima yesterday. If the rear-end styling carries over to the Leaf 2.0, it could be a visual winner...

 

[edatoakrun]

="GetOffYourGas"...He said that it will have the same range as ICEVs. So which ICEVs and on which test cycle? It sounds like he is comparing city MPG to city driving a BEV. This is the worst-case for the ICEV and best case for the BEV...

Actually, the real efficiency divide with every BEV is by average speed, and higher ranges are not limited to the city cycle.

I do very little of my driving in cities, but have an average range of ~100 miles in my LEAF in the summer, due to the slower average speeds I drive, as limited (mostly) by the roads I drive on.

="GetOffYourGas"
...I feel like there is a cultural difference here. How many Japanese residents drive 300 miles on the weekend? I suspect far fewer than Americans. And he did give this presentation in Japan after all...

The Nissan video shows a leaf (mostly ) driving on two-lane country roads, presumably at legal speeds.

Looks like I also drive at ~Japanese speeds:

...The general limit is 60 km/h (37.3 mph) except for divided national highways where the limit is 100 km/h (62.1 mph). Urban areas are usually zoned at 40 km/h (24.9 mph). Limits in Japan are different from most countries by:
having no separate urban limit, with urban limits being set by zoning rather than statute.
even outside of urban areas a limit of 40 or 50 is common.
even for divided highways outside of urban areas a limit of 50 or 60 is common...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_Japan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Those of you who want do most of your driving on freeways at ~65 to 80 mph should not expect anywhere near the Japanese range experience the video suggests.

 

[edatoakrun]

="o00scorpion00o"

Nissan’s technology-chief Hideyuki Sakamoto later confirmed that the blue Leaf comes with “a driving range equivalent to that of an ICE. The charging time also will be much http://dailykanban.com/2015/06/carlos-ghosn-promises-nissan-shareholders-ev-with-better-than-ice-range/shorter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.”

This is the actual conference and I see no mention of faster charging ? or could it be that on the website they left out some of the talk ?...

posted on 2016 Nissan LEAF Information - 30 kWh ?! thread

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19818&start=270" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I assume the author (who lives in Japan) got that info from Hideyuki Sakamoto.

I hope that "much shorter" charge time will be in the Gen 2's ability to maintain a higher DC charge rate for a longer time, than the gen 1.

How much shorter the charge session could be, will be determined by how much greater the total battery capacity is, gen 2's charge limitation curve (at different SOCs and Temperatures) and whether the maximum charge rate is still limited to ~2C.

But there will always be another external limitation, imposed by the charger's kW.

So, a "much shorter" charge time may not be available, until we also get CHAdeMO chargers with higher kW than the ~50 kW chargers now available.

 

[UBUYGAS]

Yesterday, we broke the news that Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn had been dropping some big hints at Nissan’s Ordinary Shareholder Meeting — held on Tuesday in Yokohama, Japan — that suggested the Japanese automaker could be releasing a longer-range LEAF electric car sooner than we previously thought.

Ghosn was also joined on stage by two LEAF electric cars, one of which was fitted with autonomous driving technology and the other which we clearly thought had the tell-tale signs of a larger capacity battery pack peeking out from underneath its body. Digging through the transcript, of Mr. Ghosn’s speech, we were also able to glean some important details about Nissan’s future plans for electric car range, including the fact that Nissan will begin to demonstrate the first steps towards longer-range cars later this year, and has been working for some time on lighter, more energy-dense batteries for its vehicles.

As part of that presentation, Ghosn said that “Nissan is exploring new materials and chemistry solutions in order to make thinner, lighter weight and less costly batteries,” adding that “We foresee the day when you leave your home with a full charge, and are able to go about your day with no concerns…then return home with ample charge.”

Nissan then showed a video to the audience which Ghosn said was “how we envision a routine day” some time in the future. Yesterday, we hadn’t seen that video, but now we have — and it brings with it some news that we’re sure will get LEAF fans around the world excited.

It showed the same car that accompanied Ghosn on stage driving around Japan with an extended-range battery pack. And when the car was first turned on, its dashboard read a total range of 544 kilometers (338 miles).

That’s more than three times the range of the current Nissan LEAF, and validates Ghosn’s statement yesterday that Nissan would “in the near future… provide EV drivers with even greater ‘peace of mind’ range, by offering comparative mobility to today’s conventional vehicles.” It also goes some way to explaining why the car we saw on stage — which some readers said simply had a Nismo body kit fitted — had what appeared to be a plus-sized battery pack dangling from its tummy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofph3CUObAQ&sns=em" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofph3CUObAQ[/youtube]

 

[ishiyakazuo]

Interesting. Wonder what exactly they're showing 32 seconds in...

 

[UBUYGAS]

WOW!!! - Can it really be True?!!!

 

[jhm614]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofph3CUObAQ&sns=em



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofph3CUObAQ[/youtube]

Nice find! And, man, Japan has some narrow roads!

 

[UBUYGAS]

https://transportevolved.com/2015/06/25/video-nissans-mysterious-advanced-rd-electric-vehicle-is-330-mile-prototype-leaf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ishiyakazuo]

They could've just been like "Hack the dash to read 4x the real value, so we can blow people's minds."

 

[dhanson865]

WOW!!! - Can it really be True?!!!

no, it isn't true yet and won't be any time soon, it's just a mock up.

This was from the shareholders meeting and was discussed in another thread. Ghosn just said this is a goal for some day down the road and as discussed in the other thread speed limits are much lower in Japan meaning that sort of range won't apply here unless you like to drive 40 mph all day long.

see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=17820&p=428867&hilit=shareholder+bean#p428867" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and posts around that area.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Interesting. Wonder what exactly they're showing 32 seconds in...

carbon fiber if we are unlucky