LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

[sharkmobil]

From a common sense point of view it doesn't make sense that Nissan would have created something from the ground up for the Leaf. There is money to be saved by using common components like the chassis. If it is not based on the Versa then it is based on something else. If it was a ground up design for EV I don't think we would see compromises like the batteries under the seats.

Strange logic, Tesla was designed from the ground up and it has the batteries "under the seats" or under the floor, to be more precise. Perhaps it is the best place to put them?

 

[desiv]

From a common sense point of view it doesn't make sense that Nissan would have created something from the ground up for the Leaf. There is money to be saved by using common components like the chassis.

Yes, I wondered about this..
Why is the Tundra not based on the Sentra??
There's money to be saved there!!!!! :shock: :lol:

Seriously, you use common components where it makes sense...
There are "some" of same parts between the Leaf and some of their other models.
But apparently Nissan felt that an EV was significantly different from a similar-ish sedan that it needed a larger redesign.

Headlights probably started out as a more standard part, but after some tests, they decided they needed a significantly different design to address the wind-noise from the mirror.
That type of thing, over and over in the initial design meetings, eventually led them to a larger divergence from the other models..

desiv

 

[DanCar]

Strange logic, Tesla was designed from the ground up and it has the batteries "under the seats" or under the floor, to be more precise. Perhaps it is the best place to put them?

The Tesla batteries are not directly under the seats compromising the cushion. They are under the floor.

 

[ishiyakazuo]

Strange logic, Tesla was designed from the ground up and it has the batteries "under the seats" or under the floor, to be more precise. Perhaps it is the best place to put them?

The Tesla batteries are not directly under the seats compromising the cushion. They are under the floor.

I still think that's a bizarre argument to make. Maybe Nissan thought "no one will give a crap if we put them here"? Maybe they wanted a higher ride than a Tesla?
It could well be based on the Versa (Tiida) platform or another platform (considering Nissan has a ton of cars that never make it stateside, it's possible that whole platforms don't make the trip), but I'm just saying that the links posted didn't seem very convincing. The first one had a Nissan video in it which said everything that was written in that article EXCEPT that one point.
In the end, I'm not really sure it matters much. Not like parts are compatible between Versa and LEAF to any appreciable extent anyway.

 

[DanCar]

The Tesla batteries are not directly under the seats compromising the cushion. They are under the floor.

... Maybe they wanted a higher ride than a Tesla? ...

Putting the batteries under the floor makes for a higher ride. Putting the batteries directly under the seats makes for a lower ride.

 

[ishiyakazuo]

The Tesla batteries are not directly under the seats compromising the cushion. They are under the floor.

... Maybe they wanted a higher ride than a Tesla? ...

Putting the batteries under the floor makes for a higher ride. Putting the batteries directly under the seats makes for a lower ride.

Sorry, maybe I was unclear. I was trying to say that they might've been going for more underbody clearance. (I'm still confused why having batteries under the floor would make for a higher ride... wouldn't it just lower the body of the car?)

 

[NeilBlanchard]

The Nissan Invitation shows up as a future vehicle on the Nissan website. The new Toyota vehicles are getting uglier and uglier, but I like the direction Nissan is going. Hopefully the LEAF looks something like this.

The production version will likely have larger wheel gaps, but hopefully they aren't enormous like our current LEAF.

The grill is too big and too open for an EV. The roof line should continue down instead of flattening out, for lower drag. The wheels are far too open to be low drag. It is missing the arched chines on the hood that replace the bulging headlights.

This is closer, I think to the Leaf 2:

http://livingleaf.info/2015/03/leaf-2-0-2/

 

[ydnas7]

From a common sense point of view it doesn't make sense that Nissan would have created something from the ground up for the Leaf. There is money to be saved by using common components like the chassis. If it is not based on the Versa then it is based on something else. If it was a ground up design for EV I don't think we would see compromises like the batteries under the seats.

Nissan has various platforms that are a lot more multipurpose than the American automotive meaning of platform.
For Nissan both the Micra http://www.nissan.ca/en/cars/micra" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and the NV200 http://www.nissanusa.com/future-and-concept-vehicles/taxi-of-tomorrow" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; share the same platform http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_B_platform#Nissan_EV_platform" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
closest Nissan ICE to LEAF is the Pulsar Hatch, followed by the Sentra Sedan. USA does not get the Pulsar Hatch. The floor of modern unibody cars is very key to its attributes, LEAF has a unique floor, so by modern standards it is a unique variant of the Nissan B/V family.

Nissan really has a thing going for using unique metal pressings for its vehicles, but very also very standardized mechanicals. Very different philosophy to the Ford/GM/Toyota approach of making cars.

Yes its a unique car, yes there will be components from cars larger and smaller than the LEAF, as well as pressing from older and newer generations of the 'platform'

 

[EVDRIVER]

I highly doubt the LEAF was ground up and it makes little sense to develop a new platform for a quick launch, if it were it is a terrible attempt as it has many ICE parts and poor use of space in many areas and it shares so many parts that bolt right on from other cars. A new platform takes time and using a proven one is much easier, faster and cost effective. They were so rushed they could not even do a proper NAV and used a cobbled Clarion band-aid approach and a many other poor choices as well as heavy unoptimized ICE parts, If they had time to develop a new platform they certainly had no time for the rest of the car. Both versions of the RAV and other EVs used existing platforms so there is no reason to think Nissan did not particularly since it is so similar to other cars they make. I still fear Nissan is slow to learn lessons and not as progressive as they should be, hopefully I am wrong and we get more exciting options for power, real steering and options for regen. They offer adjustable steering on the Infinity, likely for being beat up on the LEAFs crappy EPS which is terrible even compared to a G1 Yaris EPS which feels like a Porsche in comparison

 

[evnow]

I highly doubt the LEAF was ground up and it makes little sense to develop a new platform for a quick launch...

It wasn't a "quick" launch. See my sticky on the timeline. it took them 4+ years.

2006 : Ghosn overruled Nissan’s researchers and approved high-volume EV manufacturing (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... EVrzt2t.8o)

 

[NeilBlanchard]

From a common sense point of view it doesn't make sense that Nissan would have created something from the ground up for the Leaf. There is money to be saved by using common components like the chassis. If it is not based on the Versa then it is based on something else. If it was a ground up design for EV I don't think we would see compromises like the batteries under the seats.

I am fairly certain that the Leaf is a ground up design, and it is not based on the Versa, for sure. The wheel track on the Leaf is ~3" wider than the Versa, and the wheelbase is different, too. It may well use common components like bearings and suspension bits and brakes. It most definitely doesn't share major assemblies like the chassis or even the floor pan or the dash frame.

The battery pack has to go in the floor, otherwise the Cg is all wrong. The Tesla version has a slimmer space over a much larger area, while the Leaf has varying depths under the seats and the rear floor. The Cg of the Tesla Model S is just 16" above the ground, which is the lowest Cg that I know of. (The Subaru BRZ/Scion FRS twins have a Cg of 18" which is close ...)

There is plenty of room for the seat cushions in both cars - in fact big fat seats are a design issue pet peeve of mine. They weigh more, and they take up a lot of space, and since they are so bulky, the car has to be bigger to still yield enough space for the people. If seats are well designed ergonomically, they are completely comfortable with very little bulk, and so they weigh less. AND since they take up a lot less space, there is more left for the people and/or the car can be smaller - which is where the significant weight savings can come from.

I hope that the Leaf 2 gets significantly lower aero drag, and that it have more room for people - specifically, the rear leg room is a big problem for my family, and I hope they do slim ergonomic seats, that are more comfortable and weigh less - to help offset the new (possibly heavier?) battery pack.

 

[evnow]

The grill is too big and too open for an EV. The roof line should continue down instead of flattening out, for lower drag. The wheels are far too open to be low drag. It is missing the arched chines on the hood that replace the bulging headlights.

If the roof line continues down - you get a hit on the rear headroom.

This was the main reason why Leaf 1 has high roofline. They wanted the interior space to be competitive with Prius as much as possible (there are old Nissan slides showing interior dimensions I Prius and Leaf).

There is no free lunch.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

The change in the roofline on the orange car is way behind the rear seat headroom, so it wouldn't change a thing in the back seat.

Prius has 37.6" rear seat headroom
Leaf has 37.3" rear seat headroom

 

[evnow]

The change in the roofline on the orange car is way behind the rear seat headroom, so it wouldn't change a thing in the back seat.

No way. Looks like it is going down right after front seat.

Prius has 37.6" rear seat headroom
Leaf has 37.3" rear seat headroom

Are you putting this to prove something ? Looks rather close to me.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

You said the sloped roofline causes too little rear headroom, and you used the Prius as an example.

 

[evnow]

You said the sloped roofline causes too little rear headroom, and you used the Prius as an example.

That is not what I said - Nissan targeted to keep Leaf's headroom same as Prius. Because of the battery under the rear seat they had to move the roof up - and make it less sloped.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

Listen, on the concept car is question, the roofline could be tapered on the same line as the rest of the roof (to get lower drag) and it would have zero effect on the rear seat headroom. The Prius has a much better roofline aerodynamically - and it has a bit MORE headroom than the Leaf. So, where does that put your objection?

 

[edatoakrun]

Comments from Nissan on future BEVs, both short and longer (LEAF gen 2?) term:

At yesterday’s shareholder conference in Yokohama, Nissan said it is already testing an electric vehicle that will provide the same range as today’s gasoline-driven cars. In front of a blue Nissan Leaf acting as a test mule for the new technology, Nissan’s CEO Carlos Ghosn said that “in the near future,” Nissan will offer EV mobility “comparative to today’s conventional vehicles.” According to Ghosn, Nissan is testing “new materials and chemistry solutions in order to make thinner, lighter weight and less costly batteries.”

Nissan’s technology-chief Hideyuki Sakamoto later confirmed that the blue Leaf comes with “a driving range equivalent to that of an ICE. The charging time also will be much shorter.”

...For those who can’t wait, Ghosn added more weight to yesterday’s rumors of a 2016 Nissan Leaf with a larger 30kwh battery. “Later this year,” said Ghosn, “you will hear more about our initial steps to increase EV range.”

http://dailykanban.com/2015/06/carlos-ghosn-promises-nissan-shareholders-ev-with-better-than-ice-range/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[desiv]

Comments from Nissan on future BEVs, both short and longer (LEAF gen 2?) term

That's not too extreme really.
My Kia Rio I replaced with it's small gas tank would get around 300 miles per tank(320-ish was I think my max).
I don't see Gen 2 there, but gen 3 probably...

desiv

 

[evnow]

My Kia Rio I replaced with it's small gas tank would get around 300 miles per tank(320-ish was I think my max).
I don't see Gen 2 there, but gen 3 probably...

For Japan 400 km they can get in NEDC cycle is considered "ICE range".

We should look at that as 200 miles or less EPA range.