Is this 2020 Leaf a good deal?

[Rebbi]

I was shocked to learn from my local dealer that new Leafs are only coming in at the rate of about 1 per month and are sold before they physically arrive… yikes.
He just received a 2020 , extended range leaf S Plus with the extended range battery. It has about 16k miles on it. Looked it up on Carfax and the price seems at the low end of the spread at $31,000. Haven’t yet paid for the actual Carfax report but wondering if this sounds like a sound deal assuming that the car’s history is clean.
Thanks!!!

 

[LeftieBiker]

Welcome to the forum. We need to know where you live, as the S and S+ trim levels lack the heat pump. We also need to know your range needs in Winter.

 

[Rebbi]

I’m in central Texas. So most winters are mild, with the occasional ice storm. My daily drive ranges from a few miles (I live close to work) up to 25 or thirty miles for certain work commutes.

 

[cwerdna]

Pricing along w/supply is nuts for new and used cars. MSRP on '23 Leafs are at pricing tab of https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/2023-nissan-leaf-press-kit.

Given https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml and https://www.irs.gov/businesses/plug-in-electric-vehicle-credit-irc-30-and-irc-30d, '23 Leafs should qualify for Federal tax credit but I don't know the details of what's changed in terms of point of sale, Federal tax liability, etc. vs. before Aug 16, 2022. I knew the details prior to Aug 16, 2022. After that, it became a mess so I'm hesitant to say much more.

Prices were higher on Leafs back in '20. See pricing tab of https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/2020-nissan-leaf-press-kit. IIRC, '22 (https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/2022-nissan-leaf-press-kit) is when Nissan dropped MSRPs big time.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I’m in central Texas. So most winters are mild, with the occasional ice storm. My daily drive ranges from a few miles (I live close to work) up to 25 or thirty miles for certain work commutes.

Great. You are an excellent candidate for a Leaf S, so an S+ is appropriate Texas Excess. You can also use a 12 volt inverter with the car to provide about 1500 watts of backup home power if the grid goes down.

 

[Triggerhappy007]

I was shocked to learn from my local dealer that new Leafs are only coming in at the rate of about 1 per month and are sold before they physically arrive… yikes.
He just received a 2020 , extended range leaf S Plus with the extended range battery. It has about 16k miles on it. Looked it up on Carfax and the price seems at the low end of the spread at $31,000. Haven’t yet paid for the actual Carfax report but wondering if this sounds like a sound deal assuming that the car’s history is clean.
Thanks!!!

No, it's not a good deal. Try to find or order a 23 S or SV Plus for $34-$37k and get the $7500 tax credit and a new car warranty. Check metro areas within 3 hours: DFW, SA, Houston. Also check out the Bolt EV and EUV since they start at $27k brand new.

 

[Flyct]

You are a great candidate for any newer Leaf being where you live and with your commute. If you can get a new one that is inbound at MSRP go that way, especially if you can qualify for the current $7,500 in tax credit.

I know that the market is different now than when I bought our 2020 SL Plus in December of 2020 BUT That sounds too high for a 2+ year old Leal S Plus.

I paid $38,000 out the door for a brand new 2020 SL Plus in December of 2020. Included in that was $2500 in sales tax so the before tax and after discounts and rebates it was $35,500. THEN I claimed a $7,500 federal tax credit so my real cost after all dealer fees, tags, Title fees, rebates, tax credits was only $28,000 (before sales tax)

It's a crazy car market today. Last year I sold my 2019 Ford F150 to Carvana for $14,000 more than I paid for it NEW.

I'm on my 4th Nissan Leaf. First one was a 2015 SL+, then a 2018 SV+, then a 2019 SL+. Each time I traded I did so for increased range. Then the 2019 got T-Boned and was totaled so I bought the 2020 SL+ to replace it. It has become the inexpensive to operate daily driver for us.

We LOVE the car. If you get one you will too!!!!

 

[Rebbi]

Thanks for all the feedback. CarFax gives a range of around $31K to $36k for a used 2020 S Plus, FWIW.

I'll look into ordering a new one, but given the tight availablilty of both used and new Leafs, I don't know how practical that'd be.

Keep the advice coming, this is exactly the kind of feedback I need!

Thanks!

 

[Rebbi]

Oh, and one more thing. Under the new Inflation Reduction Act rebates, even a used EV (up to a certain price) is eligible for a $4000 tax rebate! Further info on the EPA.gov web site, I believe.

 

[goldbrick]

I agree a new Leaf with the tax credit is a better deal but there are caveats:

1) do you qualify for the full $7500, it is a tax credit and you must have at least that much federal tax liability to claim it.
2) with the new IRA passed, what are the current tax credit rules? I'm not sure a Leaf still qualifies for the full amount or it may change year to year
3) are any new Leaf's available for MSRP at a dealer near you. I've read that finding Leaf's for sale is not easy these days.

 

[Rebbi]

I agree a new Leaf with the tax credit is a better deal but there are caveats:

1) do you qualify for the full $7500, it is a tax credit and you must have at least that much federal tax liability to claim it.
2) with the new IRA passed, what are the current tax credit rules? I'm not sure a Leaf still qualifies for the full amount or it may change year to year
3) are any new Leaf's available for MSRP at a dealer near you. I've read that finding Leaf's for sale is not easy these days.

My taxes definitely exceed $7500 in federal tax each year, so, fortunately or unfortunately, that’s not a problem. ;-)

As far as the tax credit goes, my understanding is that first of all, the new legislation lifts the 200,000 units sold cap on rebates. However, the rebates only reply to vehicles that are assembled in the United States, so that the Leaf still qualifies, while, say, the Hyundai Ioniq 5 (which seems to be the reviewer‘s flavor of the month right now) does not qualify.

Thanks a lot for chiming in, this is all very helpful.

 

[Triggerhappy007]

Oh, and one more thing. Under the new Inflation Reduction Act rebates, even a used EV (up to a certain price) is eligible for a $4000 tax rebate! Further info on the EPA.gov web site, I believe.

Just keep in mind that this does not start until next year.

 

[goldbrick]

I haven't been following the tax rebate thing too closely since I'm not in the market but there are also some restrictions about where the battery components are sourced, etc. And I've read some comments about needing to have a binding contract to buy an EV before the enactment date to have the old rules apply vs the new rules. In short, it seems much more complicated ATM than before.

It sounds like you're pretty savvy about this stuff but do be sure to check if you go new since it's a huge incentive IMO.

 

[Rebbi]

I haven't been following the tax rebate thing too closely since I'm not in the market but there are also some restrictions about where the battery components are sourced, etc. And I've read some comments about needing to have a binding contract to buy an EV before the enactment date to have the old rules apply vs the new rules. In short, it seems much more complicated ATM than before.

It sounds like you're pretty savvy about this stuff but do be sure to check if you go new since it's a huge incentive IMO.

I don't know how savvy I am, but these guys seem to know what they're talking about:

https://electrek.co/2022/08/21/which-electric-vehicles-still-qualify-for-us-federal-tax-credit/

Prepare to get a headache...

 

[Rebbi]

Hey, I have one more question, which is sort of off-topic, but I’ll claim the privilege of being the original poster.
I’ve seen these adapters advertised for about $150 that allow you to use Tesla destination or home chargers (not the superchargers) with a Chademo car like the Leaf. Are those safe and do they work well to expand your fast charging options?

 

[cwerdna]

https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/wall-connector and https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/mobile-connector are just J1772 behind the scenes. If you use those adapters, you will be limited to the Leaf max OBC wattage: 6.6 kW. The bottleneck (https://clippercreek.com/three-things-determine-ev-charge-time/) is the max vehicle acceptance rate over J1772 inlet.

So, no, it doesn't expand your fast charging options since you aren't (DC) fast charging. They only expand your level 2 AC charging options.

 

[Rebbi]

https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/wall-connector and https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/mobile-connector are just J1772 behind the scenes. If you use those adapters, you will be limited to the Leaf max OBC wattage: 6.6 kW. The bottleneck (https://clippercreek.com/three-things-determine-ev-charge-time/) is the max vehicle acceptance rate over J1772 inlet.

So, no, it doesn't expand your fast charging options since you aren't (DC) fast charging. They only expand your level 2 AC charging options.

Okay, but it does mean that you can pick up a charge at a Tesla charger if needed.

Thanks!

 

[cwerdna]

Only if it looks like https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/wall-connector. Problem is, there are 3 gens of wall connectors and even gen 1 isn't compatible with newer Teslas (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/hpwc-problem-gen-1-not-working-on-late-2019-2021-s-x.221628/; we ran into that at my work, so those had to be replaced with gen 2).

And, some of the adapters don't work w/gen 3. Some Amazon listings of those Tesla to J1772 adapters even have a picture showing gen 1, gen 2 and an X thru gen 3. https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Self-Locking-Connector-Destination-Charging/dp/B0B3D78Q3Z is an example that admits theirs won't work with gen 3.

Also, gen 3 got this access control feature: https://www.tesla.com/support/gen-3-wall-connector-access-control. Gen 3 also could be configured for billing (e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/ug4wd3/gen_3_wall_connector_payment_system_usage_tracking/) but I haven't followed the status of that.

If it's a gen 2, you also may not know the position of the "forbidden" DIP switch setting (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-to-j1772-adapter.70591/page-10 and https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/questions-about-tesla-ac-charging-and-j1772.206133/#post-4984345). You'd need to remove the cover of the WC to change it.

Also, if the WC is running at 277 volts (rare), I don't think Leaf can use those. Even though gen 2 have no network connectivity, a Tesla vehicle connected to it could upload firmware to it (see page 31 of https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/wall_connector_installation_manual_80A_en_US.pdf). Tesla could theoretically upload firmware to make them not compatible/less compatible w/J1772 adapters.

BTW, the former name of these Tesla wall connectors was High Power Wall Connector (e.g. https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/high-power-wall-connector-installation-installation-a-b.pdf), hence the HPWC references.

In short, if you show up to a location, it might work or it might not. You'll just need to try it unless someone else has succeeded w/your model of adapter and vehicle.

 

[Rebbi]

Okay, here's what I'm finding so confusing.

As I understand it, the built in charging in the car has two connectors:

1) Chademo for DC fast charging and
2) J1772 for Level 2 AC charging, is that correct?

Chademo is not offered at many public charging stations, right?

But since many charging stations to have J1772 charging, why would I need an adapter to use such a station since the Leaf supports J1772?

That's it. That's my question.

 

[WetEV]

Okay, here's what I'm finding so confusing.

As I understand it, the built in charging in the car has two connectors:

1) Chademo for DC fast charging and
2) J1772 for Level 2 AC charging, is that correct?

Chademo is not offered at many public charging stations, right?

But since many charging stations to have J1772 charging, why would I need an adapter to use such a station since the Leaf supports J1772?

That's it. That's my question.

Chademo is fairly widely available now, but isn't likely to grow much.


J1772 vs Chademo.

Time.

J1772 takes hours. With a 62kWh battery, about 8 hours for an 80% charge. Great, while you are sleeping. Not great for a lunch stop.

Chademo takes 10's of minutes. With a 62kWh battery, about 45 minutes for an 80% charge.