Is Nissan (Marketing) in over their head?

[Dav]

Does anyone else feel that Nissan prepared a well-planned roll-out, and that the real world has destroyed that plan? That the stumbling blocks they thought could be stream-lined (government approvals, the EVSE debacle with AV, the utility rate schedules, UL approvals, etc.) have turned out to be bigger than they could cope with?

The LEAF is ready, but nothing else seems to be going right for them (Nissan).

This is merely my impression, I just wonder who else feels this way.

 

[MikeBoxwell]

It's never going to be easy, launching an electric car. Especially for a major manufacturer like Nissan.

I was in a meeting with a major European car manufacturer the other day, discussing the launch plan for their new electric car at the end of the year. It is an absolutely enormous task because absolutely everything is new: training dealers and mechanics is an enormous job, educating the public is an enormous job, sorting out all the tax credits and financial calculations is an enormous job, working out the warranties is an enormous job. With most car launches, 9/10th of this stuff is already done - because the cars being launched are updates of what has gone before. That just is not the case with an electric car.

I can't comment on whether or not Nissan's marketing team are over their head. But if they aren't, they're the first.

So give them some space and recognize they've got the biggest job to do in the world (after, perhaps the President of the United States and the President of Public Relations at BP). In fact, maybe we should propose a 'hug a Nissan employee' day just to show that we all love them really.

 

[mwalsh]

I get a feeling that they're struggling somewhat. To me, it sort of feels like they are trying to do a "soft launch" without the luxury of the time. Like the marketing is a freight train getting away from them on a long downhill stretch.

I dunno, is this launch happening at a more rapid pace than other launches? I'm looking back at some of my old Smart emails and it looks like it took them almost 2 years to bring the ForTwo to market in the US, and it was a car that was (to a great extent) already in production!

 

[LEAFer]

That the stumbling blocks ... have turned out to be bigger than they could cope with?

This is merely my impression, I just wonder who else feels this way.

I would say "bigger than they expected". So now they have to "reset" a little. It's frustrating for us enthusiasts (and geeks) ... we are chomping at the bit to get behind the wheel already. I get a similar feeling, but not (yet) quite as negative. My "feelings" (and possibly my commitment to buy) will be swayed by how quickly and how well they "recover" (solve the challenges) so that they can stay on (close to) the original roll-out timelines.

 

[evnow]

Not too worried. They still have 4 months.

But it looks like EV Project is behind Nissan - nothing about my free EVSE so far ....

Again, I think this is the most complicated car launch in history ...

 

[LEAFer]

Again, I think this is the most complicated car launch in history ...

Chelsea Sexton might disagree with you

 

[evnow]

Again, I think this is the most complicated car launch in history ...

Chelsea Sexton might disagree with you

I doubt that. Remember EV1 launched only in CA ... not worldwide. It is the scale that matters - that is the reason Tesla launch wasn't as complicated.

 

[Dav]

I get a similar feeling, but not (yet) quite as negative.

Oops, I gave the wrong impression. I'm excited that EVs are almost here. Very much looking forward to getting behind the wheel of a LEAF, but am not anxious.

I was trying to view it from a "future history, detached observer" point-of-view. How will the "armchair commandos" critique the roll-out in a few years.

And it certainly wasn't meant to be Nissan (Marketing) bashing. Just an example of "the best of well laid plans" being tripped up by unanticipated events and delays.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Still seems like the algorithm needs to be something like:

Week 1: Deliver 100 cars

Week 2: If all hell hasn't broken loose, deliver 200 more cars. Otherwise assess the problem(s) and form an action plan.

Weeks 3 and beyond: If things are going OK continue increasing the delivery rate.

 

[mwalsh]

Still seems like the algorithm needs to be something like:

Week 1: Deliver 100 cars
Week 2: If all hell hasn't broken loose, deliver 200 more cars. Otherwise assess the problem(s) and form an action plan.
Weeks 3 and beyond: If things are going OK continue increasing the delivery rate.

How about:

Week 1: Deliver MY car
Week 2: Deliver 99 more cars
etc......

or

November: Deliver Lance Armstrong's car and make him promise to drive the living snot out of it for a month.

 

[planet4ever]

Tell you what - Why don't you compare Nissan Leaf marketing with GM Volt marketing? Then you'll find out who's really behind the eight-ball. (And it isn't Nissan.)

Sure, Nissan has hit a few speed bumps, but I still have confidence in them.

 

[KeiJidosha]

When the MINI E launched, the cars had been ready for months before the EVSE issues got worked out to the point that BMW could commence delivery. BMW had just ~500 cars to deliver limited to Los Angeles and New York.

I think Nissan is doing OK, but I think eTec and AV are struggling with the EVSE. It is a political and regulatory cluster as the J1772 standard was just approved in January. Both companies have BtoB experience, but are new to consumer retail. Add in hundreds of city and county fiefdoms that need to be appeased, along with UL, and you can only drag them so fast. Many of the MINI Es ended up being delivered and charged with the Level 1 120V charger, some for months. It may not go smoothly, but the results are worth the trouble.

 

[evnow]

I think Nissan is doing OK, but I think eTec and AV are struggling with the EVSE. It is a political and regulatory cluster as the J1772 standard was just approved in January. Both companies have BtoB experience, but are new to consumer retail. Add in hundreds of city and county fiefdoms that need to be appeased, along with UL, and you can only drag them so fast. Many of the MINI Es ended up being delivered and charged with the Level 1 120V charger, some for months. It may not go smoothly, but the results are worth the trouble.

Good observation.

BTW, you have an interesting handle. Are you in the auto industry ?

 

[KeiJidosha]

I think Nissan is doing OK, but I think eTec and AV are struggling with the EVSE. It is a political and regulatory cluster as the J1772 standard was just approved in January. Both companies have BtoB experience, but are new to consumer retail. Add in hundreds of city and county fiefdoms that need to be appeased, along with UL, and you can only drag them so fast. Many of the MINI Es ended up being delivered and charged with the Level 1 120V charger, some for months. It may not go smoothly, but the results are worth the trouble.

Good observation.

BTW, you have an interesting handle. Are you in the auto industry ?

Nope. Field Service, retired from Siemens. I appreciate efficiency. Less is more.

 

[indyflick]

From a product development perspective, comparing the Nissan Leaf to the BMW Mini E is apples to oranges. The Mini E is constructed from a standard Mini with no drive train (a glider). From that platform they retrofit an electric drive train. Whereas the Nissan Leaf is derived from a purpose built electric car platform. Nissan's approach is much heavier lifting to be sure and that's why it has taken far longer for the product to be developed.

The two approaches are also sending the market vary different signals. BMW is signaling their Mini E is a science experiment. Nissan is signaling the Leaf is a new product line direction for the company. Nissan is making a real investment here and will spin numerous derivative products from the Leaf platform. BMW could close up their E car in a heartbeat, they have no investment.

 

[DaveEV]

Whereas the Nissan Leaf is derived from a purpose built electric car platform.

I thought the Leaf was derived from a modified Versa platform (which is why the early prototypes had Versa sheetmetal on them).

 

[KeiJidosha]

From a product development perspective, comparing the Nissan Leaf to the BMW Mini E is apples to oranges.

True. But my point is not about the car, it's about the EVSE "charger".

The problem seems to be the EVSE part of the project has not progressed appreciably since the EV1 days. The LEAF, more than any prior EV needs a streamlined certification, installation, and permitting process for the EVSE due to shear quantity. But, that process does not seem to have benefited from those 10+ years of experience. A universal agreement between the many stakeholders does not yet exist.

My point is that Nissan IS on track to deliver cars, but the EVSE companies are struggling with that unwieldy process of delivering “chargers”. Having outsourced this to AV and eTec, Nissan will still be affected by the competency of others. My experience is that some may have to make due with Level 1 charging for a while, but it will be worth it in the end.

 

[Nubo]

Looks like a decent trend:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22nissan+leaf%22&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

And if they are close to an announcement, expect the upward trend in awareness to accelerate.

 

[planet4ever]

I can't see how this is at all like EV1 days. That inductive charging paddle was one of a kind, useless except for the very limited number of EV1's GM built. Today's level 2 charging dock uses an SAE standard interface to the Leaf. Any dock you get will work with any EV built in the next five years; probably the next twenty five years. I'll bet there will be at least half a dozen of them on the market by Christmas. A year from now they'll start showing up on eBay.

Who cares whether AeroVironment can make the jump from military supplier to consumer products. They snooze, they lose. Worst case -- no, make that best case -- you get to pick up your Leaf before Christmas, and you haven't got any dock installed yet. Just charge the Leaf all night on 120v and have fun with it, showing it off to all your friends. Fifty to sixty miles is a lot of two-mile demo trips every day on the freeway.

 

[LEAFguy]

Whereas the Nissan Leaf is derived from a purpose built electric car platform.

I thought the Leaf was derived from a modified Versa platform (which is why the early prototypes had Versa sheetmetal on them).

Nissan used the Versa body as it was appropriately sized for the mule. The LEAF is a purpose-built, unique platform. It will provide the basis for other Nissan/Inifiniti vehicles in the future.