I want my 281!

[garygid]

After 100% charging:
LEAFfan gets 261 gids (93%)
TickTock gets 246 gids (87.5%)

Most owners report 272 to 281 gids (96.7% to 100%).

Both are in AZ.
It seems nobody else has reported this experience.

Clearly, there is something happening that we do not understand.

Are there other LEAFs in AZ that can link up with these guys and compare readings?

 

[TickTock]

Or better yet, buy one of Gary's meters! [shill]

I will be at the Drive Electric Tour first thing Sunday morning and would be happy to take readings with my meter. Not sure if Nissan is going to provide charging for volunteer owners. Closest I see on PlugShare is at Power Nissan ~2miles south.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Not sure if Nissan is going to provide charging for volunteer owners. Closest I see on PlugShare is at Power Nissan ~2miles south.

Nissan offered the Quick Charger for us on Nov 12 at the San Diego Nissan Electric Tour at the Del Mar fairgrounds. Free shirts, too.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=137579#p137579" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[vegastar]

I finally terminated the assembly of my SOC-meter and this morning after a 100% charge I got 277 gids. My car charges in a underground garage with around 20ºC temperature).

 

[Boomer23]

I finally terminated the assembly of my SOC-meter and this morning after a 100% charge I got 277 gids. My car charges in a underground garage with around 20ºC temperature).

"Terminated the assembly"? That sounded shocking until I re-read your post and realized that you actually completed the assembly. Congrats and well done!

 

[vegastar]

:lol:

I'm from Portugal so sometimes I confuse words wich are similar between our languages but with different meanings. In Portuguese "terminar" means complete. I should have remembered The Terminator movie

My SOC-meter is functional, but I have yet to mount it in a box. I'm very curious to test it during a Quick-charge, wich I hope to have time to do this weekend.

 

[Boomer23]

:lol:

I'm from Portugal so sometimes I confuse words wich are similar between our languages but with different meanings. In Portuguese "terminar" means complete. I should have remembered The Terminator movie

My SOC-meter is functional, but I have yet to mount it in a box. I'm very curious to test it during a Quick-charge, wich I hope to have time to do this weekend.

Salud, if that is appropriate in Portuguese.

 

[Gonewild]

We believe that the BARS are NOT re-scaled for each 100% charge.

The manual seems to say that the BARS ARE re-scaled to 100% for Capacity-Loss.

We do not know if the "SOC" value gradually decreases with Capacity Loss.

Of course, that makes the fuel-Bars almost worthless, because they would
contain a variable (gradually or abruptly changing) amount of energy,
lower as Capacity Loss increases (Capacity decreases).

Remember when we got the car reprogramed firmware update no charge change but the 2 bars dropped at the dealer. But after we got home and charged you got 12 bar again.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I got my first 11 fuel bars showing with an 80% charge.

The charge would have been completed while the car was relatively warm (60-70F), and in the morning, it was in the 40-50F.

 

[Boomer23]

I'm getting 280 to 281 regularly these days. Not saying that it's a temperature thing, since we may have partly debunked that theory, but it has been colder overnight this month....

 

[TickTock]

I got my first 11 fuel bars showing with an 80% charge.

The charge would have been completed while the car was relatively warm (60-70F), and in the morning, it was in the 40-50F.

This is consistent with how the Owners Manual describes the fuel bars. Since the battery has lower capacity at cold but doesn't lose charge when it cools, the same charge indicated a higher fraction of the new lower/cooler charge capacity.

 

[Herm]

This is consistent with how the Owners Manual describes the fuel bars. Since the battery has lower capacity at cold but doesn't lose charge when it cools, the same charge indicated a higher fraction of the new lower/cooler charge capacity.

I read about this behavior of lithium-ion before, but dont really understand how it works.. supposedly if you charge a lithium-ion to full in hot weather and then take it to a cold location the battery is suddenly overcharged.. but I dont think it hurts anything.

 

[TickTock]

This is consistent with how the Owners Manual describes the fuel bars. Since the battery has lower capacity at cold but doesn't lose charge when it cools, the same charge indicated a higher fraction of the new lower/cooler charge capacity.

I read about this behavior of lithium-ion before, but dont really understand how it works.. supposedly if you charge a lithium-ion to full in hot weather and then take it to a cold location the battery is suddenly overcharged.. but I dont think it hurts anything.

That is my understanding. When the temperature drops after 100% warm charge, it will be effectively over-charged (beyond what was set as the 100% charge level). Presumably, Nissan has accounted for this in their 100% set point to allow some room for the temperature fluctuation.

 

[TickTock]

Of course another way to look at it is you are slightly under charged when you charge warm.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Of course another way to look at it is you are slightly under charged when you charge warm.

Whichever is most likely to save money for Nissan on warranty claims.

I vote for your option.

 

[edatoakrun]

So, if I charge at low temperature, I could lose 1 bar as the battery warms, or more typically, lose one bar sooner, after I begin to drive, right?

I charge to 10 bars on the timer overnight, and this will often be in ambient temps in the 30's over the winter.

If the main advantage to battery life, by not charging to 100%, is in keeping the battery temp low, are the detrimental effect to battery charging to 100%, likely to be insignificant at such low ambient temps ?

 

[thankyouOB]

how much temperature change are we talking here between hot and cold?
10 degrees F or 40? 25?

 

[TickTock]

Some more data to chew on. I drove the LEAF to dead again yesterday so took the oportunity to grab another log. Some interesting observations when I compare the log from two separate dead to 100% charge records.
1) Just like last time I drove to dead and charged 100%, my maximum gids increased again. Now I am up to 256 (was 244). However...
2) The average charge per gid changed from 86Wh/gid to 79Wh/gid
3) To go from 29 gids to 243 gids, I was only able to add 16.6kWh to the battery the second time compared to 17.7kWh 1.5 months ago.
4) To go from 4 to max (243 first time, 256 second time) my wall meter read [EDIT:I remembered I failed to accound for 0.81kWh used to pre-heat that morning] .81kwH lower (21.74kWh now versus 22.60kWh before)[/EDIT]
[delete]almost exactly the same (22.60kWh vs. 22.58kWh)[/delete]
5) The charge appears to stop at a fixed voltage

So not really sure what to think. It appears my capacity [delete]didn't really change[/delete] [edit]dropped a little[/edit] but I am seeing a change in the unit charge. Could it be the car very slowly adjusts the quantity associated with a gid and over time I will converge on 281 like everyone else?

Here is a plot of the energy stored to the battery (battery voltage * battery current * time) versus battery voltage for the range 29 to 243 (I picked this range because it was the range common to both logs). X axis is kWh, Y axis is battery voltage. Note, the reduced final charge on the battery (ch100b stops at 16.6kWh while the previous log ch100a got to 17.7kWh).

In the following plot, X axis is gids and the Y axis is battery voltage for the entire charge. Note the same ending voltage, but higher final gid (256 - was 244 before). I failed to capture the first hour of the earlier charge log (why you don't see data below 28 gids).

 

[edatoakrun]

...3) To go from 29 gids to 243 gids, I was only able to add 16.6kWh to the battery the second time compared to 17.7kWh 1.5 months ago...

So not really sure what to think. It appears my capacity didn't really change...

Aren't you saying the total available kWh capacity declined?

At what temperatures did the 2 charges occur?

 

[TickTock]

...3) To go from 29 gids to 243 gids, I was only able to add 16.6kWh to the battery the second time compared to 17.7kWh 1.5 months ago...

So not really sure what to think. It appears my capacity didn't really change...

Aren't you saying the total available kWh capacity declined?

At what temperatures did the 2 charges occur?

I actually was saying the capacity didn't change - just the units. However, I forgot that I had pre-heated that morning (after taking the previous day wall meter reading) so I had included that power in the total I previously stated. I *did* read the meter just prior to charging, so the new number 21.74 is accurate - I just used the wrong previous read in my original post. So now I *am* saying that the capacity seems to have declined (in addition to the charge per gid declining). Could be temperature, but the car is in an enclosed garage so somewhat insulated. I'll keep logging. Probably only know for sure in the Spring.

I do not have the temperature recorded but it has been cooling off lately.