How Useful is Faster Charging?

[bongo2]

Looking at used 2013-15 Leafs in my area it looks like getting an S model without the 6.6 kw option or the QC gives you a pretty big discount ($1,000 or more). Looking around this forum it seems like the consensus is that the QC is rarely useful, but that the 6.6kw option is a big improvement over the 3.3kw. I figure I'll be doing almost all my charging overnight or for long periods anyway, so I probably wouldn't really use the extra juice. I was planning on just getting the 3.3kw, but now I'm rethinking it. What do you all think? Is there anyone who is perfectly happy with their 3.3kw charging, or people who have the 6.6kw but don't think they use it?

 

[IssacZachary]

That all depends on your driving habits, climate and places where you can charge.

1. Some people are happy with just using the 120V (1.2kW if I'm not mistaken) EVSE. They usually charge all night and then sometimes all day at work. From 0% to 100% takes as much as 21hours. That gives them about 60 miles per day average if they're plugged in most of the day and half that if they're plugged in only at night.
2. If you do get a 3.3kW Leaf that will be over twice as fast IF you have a 240V EVSE. Usually 6 hours or less will get you to 100%. Now you only have to plug in at night to get that 60 miles average. If you have a 240 EVSE at work you can double your daily mileage.
3. But imagine you do work 40 or 50 miles away from your home and you get done with work early. Or you've been driving around doing errands and are getting low on charge. That's where a 6.6kW charger make the difference. You can get a full charge in usually about 3 hours, 4 hours max. Even taking an hour for a lunch or dinner break will make twice the difference with a 6.6kW charger vs. a 3.3kW.
4. And what about taking a long trip in a Leaf? Sure, if you've got the time you could go 60 miles every day and then plug into a 120V outlet for 20 hours at hotels. It would take you several days to get anywhere though. But what if you could do 300 miles in a day? CHAdeMO makes that possible. Some have done over 300 miles in a day in a Nissan Leaf using mostly CHAdeMO chargers. I've driven over 600 miles in a day in an ICE vehicle, but personally I feel that that's too much. Now I don't drive over 300 miles per day. I hope some day more Level 2 and CHAdeMO charging stations will be available in my part of the world so that I could do that in my Leaf every once in a while. Then I wouldn't need an alternative like renting on those occasions.

 

[VitaminJ]

I also didn't think it would be useful but it actually has been extremely useful. I took my Leaf on a 250 mile trip that would not have been possible without CHAdeMO and I plan on doing that a lot more, the Leaf is more comfortable than my ICE cars. 20 minutes on CHAdeMO or 2 hours on L2, hmmmm let me think. Let's face it it's an EV and you want the fastest charging possible whether you realize it yet or not

 

[Durandal]

No DC charging in my area. However, if it were available where I am, it would most certainly be useful for me. In fact, having the 6.6kW charger for my 2012 Leaf would have been much more convenient than the 3.6kW. I thought I would only be using my car for commuting, but having the ability to put an extra 25 miles of range on my car in an hour would increase the utility of my Leaf by a good bit, allowing me to go on one or two more errands in a week.

 

[jjeff]

Also remember with the '13S without the QC(or upgraded 6.6kw charger) you won't get the backup camera. By '14 I believe the backup camera was standard on all Leafs but with the '13S you had to get the charge package to get the backup camera.
Another advantage to the 6.6kw charger is almost all public chargers(such as at HyVee or some other places like Nissan dealers) are at least 30a, with a 16a Leaf you'll only be gaining ~half the charge for a given time, considerable IMO.

I mean it's up to you, if you figure you'll never need it I suppose you could save some money but I've been looking at prices for quite some time in the MSP market and while at a particular time you might see a S without the charger package for cheap, if you wait around you'll probably see a very similar S with the charger package for about the same price, it's just timing.

Preheating with a 3.6kw Leaf does work much better than L1 but your still going to lose several percent charge during the 30 minute preheat cycle, if it's in the single digits or below zero(when you probably need all the charge you can get). IMO you need ~ 19a L2 to hold charge(19a is what you get if you have your '13 or '14 OEM Leaf EVSE upgraded by EVSEupgrade.com) and more just gives you the ability to preheat and also charge. Good luck on whatever you decide.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I have a 2012 with the 3.3kW charger. I have rarely ever wanted more. But I rarely drive more than 30 miles in a single day. Only twice in 5 years have I waited at a L2 charger. Having a 6.6kW charger would have meant waiting half the time. Both times I passed the time with a meal/shopping/taking the kids to a playground. Both of those trips were intentionally pushing the limits to better understand the car. I knew it would be an "adventure", and it really wasn't bad. Still, the wife disagrees so we take the CMax now.

Otherwise, my trips are typically leaving town, and too far for the Leaf (no CHAdeMO around here yet).

Looking into the future, I wouldn't want DCQC with such a small battery. I would want at least 30kWh, if not more. Larger batteries go farther between charges (obviously), but also can charge faster in miles/minute (not as obvious). Ideally, I would want to travel for two hours on the highway between charges.

As for your situation, obviously looking at used 2013-2015 Leafs you are stuck with a 24kWh battery. My 2012 is a great local driver, and does the majority of my trips (although only 1/3 of my miles). A 1.4kW (120V) charge would keep up most days. The 3.3kW charger has served me well.

 

[joeriv]

I have a 2013 S with QC and I am very happy I made that a requirement for me, because you may find that you will want to use your Leaf in more ways than you think now. Having the QC package gives you more options and flexibility than not having it.

 

[Phatcat73]

I do enjoy it when going on errands/restaurants where the car sits plugged in for a couple hours and coming back to a near 100% charged vehicle. Re: QC, it's of little use if your area doesn't have them available. However with my 1 week old 2016, I've found several dealers with working QC's in my area which opens up more flexibility. One is even 1.5 miles away with a 24x7 complimentary QC. Use case would be if I'm in a pinch with <10% battery and don't have the 5 hrs available to go back to a 100% on L2 (30kw battery), I can always head to my dealer to QC at their 44kw output rate.. 80% in 30 min, or 50% in 15, then be on my way.

 

[bongo2]

Thanks for the perspective Brian. Up in Syracuse you have cold snowy days, right? If my day range was always 80miles I wouldn't think twice about limiting myself to overnight charging. But, I'm in MN and I fear that cold snowy days will mean a 30-40 mile range that will require me to top off during the day. Is that your experience?

Looking on plugshare there aren't any charging options where I shop, but there is a charger a couple blocks from where I work. It's some sort of membership so I need to look into that.

I think one thing that may make my needs a little bit different from some on the board is that I will still have the use of ICEs (three cars and five drivers in my house) for when longer trips are needed. Hmmm, so hard to predict what I will want after having a Leaf. That's why these perspectives are so valuable! Thank you all!

 

[powersurge]

I have a 2015 "S"... I had the experience of charging with both 120v and 240v, and QC.

When I just got the car new, I only charged L1 120v because my garage did not have 240v service. I commuted to work, and at 4pm in the afternoons, I charged from 40%-100% (which took 12 hours). At that point the car is dead for the whole evening and night. It worked for my daily work commute.

Then I got the 40AMP 240 service, and charged (with the QC/ 6.6kw package) at a rate of 30% charge/ hour. So in 2 hours (6pm), I was back at 100%. That opened up the entire evening to use the car, and I could still recharge in time for the morning. The car was TRANSFORMED into a totally useful vehicle 24 hours/ day. I am very happy I paid the extra $1k for the QC package... Even though I never use the QC plug.

And lately, they have been refurbishing some rest areas around here, AND they have installed 400 volt, QC chargers FOR FREE USE!! Now, my car can be opened to being used for a longer trip and only waiting 30 min to recharge the car on a future trip!!!

Do not buy a new leaf without the QC package.....

 

[2011RedLeaf]

My experience has been that the 3.3 is adequate. We use the Leaf almost strictly for commuting in-town, usually 30-40 miles/day. For the first couple years, I just used the 110 trickle charger - the car regained 4 miles range per hour. We had a full battery every morning. As my high school sons started having more activity in the evening, and the battery lost capacity, the trickle couldn't keep up. I bought an EVSE off eBay and the ability to regain 25 miles in the two hours it took to preen was adequate.
Similar to original poster, I am paying insurance on 5 vehicles (Leaf, Volt, SUV, and two typical college-kid rattletraps) so the rare occurrence where the Leaf charging is inadequate is an irritant, not a catastrophe.
Given a comfortable 60 miles/charge with 30 kWh - how often will you want to drive the Leaf more than 60 miles in a day? 80 with a couple hours to top off?
Being a heretic with access to ICE, I wouldn't pay more than about $200 for a faster charger (and would have a hard time making an economic case for it - $200 / $3/gallon * 15 mpg in the SUV = 1000 miles due to slow charging).

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Thanks for the perspective Brian. Up in Syracuse you have cold snowy days, right? If my day range was always 80miles I wouldn't think twice about limiting myself to overnight charging. But, I'm in MN and I fear that cold snowy days will mean a 30-40 mile range that will require me to top off during the day. Is that your experience?

You're in Minneapolis, right? Looking at a map, wouldn't it be "down" in Syracuse relative to you?

Being downwind of all five Great Lakes, Syracuse gets lot of lake-effect snow. The most snow, in fact, for any city in the US over 100k people. It sometimes gets bitter cold (sub zero), but usually hovers in the teens-to-twenties in the winter.

The Leaf handles really well in the snow. It is heavy, and that weight is very evenly distributed to all four tires. It has a high ground clearance, yet a low center of gravity. Put some good snow tires on the thing, and you'll be set.

My car not only has a 24kWh battery, but also the horribly inefficient liquid-based resistance heater. That heater is a killer on range. It easily cuts my range in half.

The worst efficiency I have gotten is about 1.5miles/kWh. That was an extreme case, though, and required a multitude of factors. 1) Extreme cold (about -20F). 2) Heating rear-seat occupants with the main heater (which means blowing warm air with the fan relatively high). 3) Multiple SHORT trips (short enough that the heater was still pulling 5+kW the whole time, and then the car cooled off before the next trip). 4) Some highway driving. 5) Non-LRR tires (I had bought cheap replacements when the originals wore out at 20k miles).

This is not a commuting scenario - it is a family errands scenario.

Given the ~20kWh usable in the car, I had a 30 mile range in this extreme situation. I consider 30 miles to be my no-jokes, go-anywhere range. At least with a 12-bar battery. Maybe 25 miles now that I have 11 bars showing. Again, noting my non-LRR tires. I don't recommend buying cheap tires, and won't do so again.

Most winter days are nowhere near that bad. I would say that I am comfortable with 40 miles in pretty much any conditions, provided that I don't have to heat rear passengers.

 

[LightningLeaf]

I have to agree with vitaminj here.

Sometimes you would like to drive 40-50 miles away and would like to re-charge the car as quickly as possible.

 

[IssacZachary]

If you have a bunch of other cars that you can use and go longer distance than the Leaf then it doesn't really matter.

In my case I'd like to make the Leaf my only car. If I need to go really far and fast I can rent or take the bus or an airplane. But occasionally I wouldn't mind driving the 250 miles down to Denver on occasion in my Leaf. In such a case the faster the charge the better. If there were CHAdeMO chargers along the way I'd be tickled to death. But even going from Level 2 to Level 2 would be possible with the 6.6kW charger as long as I can make it over Monarch Pass and then through the Eisenhower tunnel.

 

[jjeff]

:lol:

But even going from Level 2 to Level 2 would be possible with the 6.6kW charger as long as I can make it over Monarch Pass and then through the Eisenhower tunnel.

Good point, while not nearly as quick as a QC, a 6.6kw L2 can be very helpful in a relatively short period of time.
Today for example I needed to make a 60 mile RT drive. Normally 60 miles is totally doable in the summer with my '13S and I do it somewhat regularly in the winter but I have a 19a L2 I can use 1/2 way for the 1hr I'm at that location(which gains me about 20%). Today I didn't have that luxury so I tried the trip doing just 55-60mph(on a 70mph freeway) with limited heat. I say limited because while I started out at 100% and a hot preheated car, I could only leave the heat off for maybe 25%?? of the time, after that the windows would start fogging up too bad to see. While I like saving battery I will NOT do it at the expense of safety, if I have a hard time seeing out the windows that IS an issue. Anyway I made it to my half way point down to 52%, a little too close for my comfort, plus I had a couple on-the-way stops I wanted to make on the way back as I don't normally go this way. My one safety net on the way home was a HyVee about 10 miles from home, with several nice FREE ChargePoint chargers that seem to get very little use(I've only seen a few Volts other than my Leaf there when I've used them before). The HyVee was also within walking distance from one of the places I wanted to stop at(Total Wine, man I love that place :lol: ) anyway I got to HyVee with 24% remaining, and I figured with my couple remaining stops it would probably take me 25-30% to make it back home. Well I plugged in, 27.5a with my upgraded S charger stopped in HyVee to make it official and purchased a 6 pack of Guinness Nitro which was on-sale for $6.99 walked over to Total Wine and got a good deal on a couple other 4 packs of beer(where the Guinness Nitro was $8.99 not on sale) walked back to my Leaf and for the 49 minutes I charged I gained 4.649Kwh(according to ChargePoint) and went from 24% to 54% more than enough to get back home, doing 70mph with all the heat I wanted.
The moral of the story is for that 49 minutes I gained 30% with my 6.6kw charger Leaf, with my '12 and it's measly 3.3kw charger that would have been 1/2 or only 15%, god I love that fast charger on my '13 and personally I'd be hard pressed to purchase another 3.3kw Leaf, well unless the price was good enough........

 

[wvleaf]

Everyone's situation is different, so for some I'm sure it's very valuable. In my case, I have a '15 S without QC and the 3.3Kwh charger. I also only charge on L1 120V. There are only a couple charging stations in my area period and no DC QC, so the QC is no real value for me. I only use the Leaf around town, so it can go days between charges. I let it run down to LBW and then charge overnight, so it's charging from 15-20% to 100% in about 15 hours. The Leaf is garaged so no need for pre-heating, etc.

So, it works fine in my situation, but if I had a long commute or needed to preheat, etc., the 6.6Kwh charger and 240V charging would be useful.

 

[SageBrush]

Part of this story depends on how long OP plans to keep the car, and whether a more functional LEAF would let him downsize his ICE fleet.
It is also reasonable to assume that MPS will gain more charging infrastructure over time, making the 6.6/QC more useful.

When I considered this question, I knew that 6.6 kW L2 existed in a town we frequent that is 45 miles away, and a city with QC was 90 miles away. The city trip is still an annoyance in the LEAF because the QC is not near our shopping stores, but the L2 45 miles away is perfect and cutting charging time in half means that we do not have wait for the charger once we are finished with our other activities.

I'd look for the option for less than $1000.